Subject: Re: Driving impressions with the AFR heads by BeachBum on 2009/8/18 21:44:19
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anesthes wrote: Quote:
BeachBum wrote:
So from Joe's perspective, yes in my opinion, you could see 10 mph swings, but it would have to be an extreme and none
I didn't really expect to see a 10mph swing, but honestly, as a consumer who has always went a cheaper route on heads I was hoping to see a higher split.. HOWEVER....
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BeachBum wrote:
The test in itself has lost some definitive value due to test conditions and unknowns at the start such as what was
The problem with the test is the numbers are not helpful for the majority of people. How many people do you know that would buy a set of TFS heads, then send them to one of the best porters around to be ported? No way.
And how many people do you know will spend $2k on heads.
Some real tests, for working class people like me would be:
Out of box TFS heads vs AFR with normal ports ($300-400 price split)
RHS vs AFR with normal port ($500-600 price slit)
To say $300 will get you 35hp out of a set of heads, well you might say yeah I'll spend the extra money. But you know, a 150shot kit is like $500, and used s-trims can be had all day for $900-1200.
Quote:
BeachBum wrote:
The one thing I will say, as all true racers will tell you that are et hunting.... we'll take hundredths at a time if thats what is available.... a gain of 1-2 mph on any given day with a bolt-on performance item like a cylinder head is a good day and can literally mean a 15-35 HP gain dependant on how fast you were going in the first place. The guys that race in heads-up series are begging for .1 and .2 mph gains, let alone a full 1-2 mph. It is a defnitive differnce in power to most serious racers.
While that holds true for some pretty serious bracket racers, not using a C4 would probably net the same gain. I mean, if we're talking 1/4 mile cars to begin with.. Put the same motor in a vega with a 9bolt and the thing will go 10mph and a second or more faster.. So to spend a ton of money on different heads when building the wrong car to begin with doesn't make sense either.
For a mean street machine, that doesn't race for points, it's hard to swallow the price difference. no?
-- Joe
Hi Joe,
I think the difference between a $ 900 RHS head and $ 1200 TF head vs a $ 1500 AFR street port 195 or 210 head would be around 20-30 HP for a street car, even more for a race car....
I think the difference between a $ 900 RHS and $ 1200 TF head vs a $ 2000 comp AFR head would be in lines of literally 30-40 HP for a street car and could be 50 HP on a racecar that is running the cam and rpm necessary to show the benefits of a well done cnc ported better cylinder head.
But who knows, maybe I am wrong and there is no power difference at all, I'll let you come to your own conclusion on that.
As a note, the Trick Flows in this test probably cost more than the AFR's.... but I don't know. I do know I think the base head is around $ 1200-1300 and if they were thoroughly ported by a professional as stated by Josh's flow test guy, then there is a good chance they cost $ 2000 or more with total cost. But I dunno..... guess it depends on the deal given to the customer. I know most porters prices start at $ 500 and go dramatically up dependant on what is being done, how much is being done and what casting it is.
But, I do know there is sizeable difference.... that is very easy to swallow for most, hence the huge aftermarket cylinder head market for new cylinder heads and Porting services. In otherwords, if 25 HP is not worth $ 300 in porting to you, then I doubt if you're going to like your heads/rockers/cam/ etc modifications as well.
I do not like the Vega analogy, I have heard that before..... it could be then said, why a Vega? why not a mini-cooper and then why not a motorcycle?..... before long, its just a motor on rails. I think everybody has limits that they set themselves.... one guy may say, I want a vette and I want as much power as I can get, but my limit is streetabililty and my budget is $ 10k..... the next may say, my dream car is my 69 Camaro and thats my base, and I don't care about streetability, I want as much performance as I can get for my $ 15k budget, which is limit is then price, where the others is limited by budget and streetability.... there is nothing wrong with eithers choice.
My only point, in things like the cylinder head debates and other performance related debates, there is no right and wrong answer, its all about what you have and expect it to do..... My opinion, if you do not see the value in cylinder head porting, then don't do it..... its all good. But, if you see the value in spending $ 500-$1500 for cylinder head porting and gains ranging from 20 HP to literally 60+HP depending on your set-up then do it.... its all good.
