| Re: Engine swap on the C1 |
Subject: Re: Engine swap on the C1 by lltrevino on 2008/11/15 4:18:44 lord nows, I am in a similar fight with another head manufacturer, also. long story short, I bought a new a*r 195 set of heads, and used them 2 months, I put on about 2500 miles. Winter came, I decided i wanted to upgrade from a 355 to a 406 short block. I took my like new A*R heads, to a highly respected shop ( Kippley Engines), I set up a cnc port n polish. well long story short I had a couple of swiss cheese spots in my runners, from the "core shift" that was common with these heads. That same cnc program later has run 10+ same cylinder geads without a hiccup, and they must of ran 30 + prior to my set of heads. You know a cnc is going to the exact same spot, every time. This was all prior to the holy grail of the "el*m*nator". Now i contact A*R numerous times, and they stated"aware of problem, and problem has been corrected" , however my problem is my own fault. I than last week asked a A*R engineer about my Dilema, and here was his response " "That's kinda what I thought went down from reading a little of what you posted. Consider this.....what if the place your head broke thru was always say .040 thick on most of the other castings....none of them would break thru but ALL of them would be extremely thin and long term reliability would always be an issue. We guarantee our heads with our CNC work because we go thru all the extra trouble to cut our heads like a loaf of bread and make sure we have plenty of aluminum around our port walls based on the shape we CNC into the head (the water jackets are designed around our port designs....not someone else's) AFR can not be responsible for another shops CNC program that obviously removes alot more material than we do in certain areas. It was up to them to do all the behind the scenes homework that we have invested in our own program (concerning verifying proper wall thickness) and they should have stepped up to the plate and offered you another one of their CNC castings in the event they couldn't weld/repair the one THEIR program broke thru. That's what we would have done had you purchased our CNC program and had a problem with a port breaking thru into water. You should vent your frustration to the shop that did the CNC work. How can you reasonably expect us to guarantee someone else's porting work....its no different than if someone buys our heads and grinds on them by hand poking a hole thru one of the ports. In that same situation would you expect AFR to eat the cost of a head and all the machine work involved?? Then think for a minute whats really different in your situation....just because they CNC'ed the same program before doesn't mean it was always right and the bottom line is with most products that you purchase, both performance related and anything else for that matter....if you modify it and have a problem you own it. You relinquish the right to return or warranty it....especially if what you modified created the problem. What I would be willing to do just to try and help is to see if I can fix it for you and charge you a nominal fee to do so (basically do the work at cost). Perhaps we can repair them but of course I cant make you any promises. Honestly though, the real company that needs to step up here is the company that did the CNC work. If you conducted a poll and shared this situation with everyone, I bet 75% plus would agree with what I'm saying....maybe more. We are a stand up company and will warranty anything that we feel is remotely our fault....even gray area's that occasionally come up we stand behind, but this clearly is not a warranty with our company....the real warranty lies with the company that you paid to port your heads. I hope one day you step back and can see and understand that more clearly. I would like to see if we can fix the heads....contact me next week if your interested in pursuing that. Thanks, Tony 661-705-8508 Quote: Originally Posted by lltrevino I took my pill, to be respectable here, but here is a real short. these heads were just prior to eliminator release. I will gather receipts, and extra. first we are talking cnc porting, done by Kippley engines, in WI. I am sure Tony has heard of Kippley. I bought heads from Nickerson Engines BRAND NEW. ran heads for UNDER 2500 miles on a stout 355, than over winter, got a deal on a 406 short block, had headS cnc ported, SAME PROGRAM USED ON 30 + SETS OF AFR HEADS. went through on 2 water jackets, 1 hole is unrepairable,. Tony you know bout cnc machines, they go same place, same time, rest assured cnc machine was not crashed, not wrong with program either, did at least 10 sets afterwards, no problems. HOWEVER 2 MONTHS PRIOR, Kippley has a similar problem, core shift. I not trying to be an ahole here, however my money is as green as yours, and having 1100.00 in a set of heads that are junk, really pisses me off. I have the email responses, and was in contact with sustomer service. WILL NOT ACCEPT A RETURN!!! how is this fair to me? Quote: Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR Mike, I have not ignored this customer. Ignoring implies there has been an effort made to communicate with me and this customer has not PM'ed me, nor has he picked up the phone in an attempt to contact me either. I make myself available to everyone. The only thing I know about this situation is from what I have briefly read (and Im a little gray on this) which involves the fact this customer modified our castings by having someone else port them (and I believe broke into a water jacket which he now blames us for). This type of work obviously nullifies any warranty AFR can offer which would be standard procedure for anybody's product (if I buy a Dart block and grind and modify it to the point it creates a problem I wouldn't expect Dart to warranty to the block because it was my fault for modifying it in the first place....just an example of the point I am making) That said I would like to hear the specific details of what actually went down and I encourage thic customer to contact me directly. I would like to try and work something out in an attempt to make peace but without knowing exactly what Im dealing with its hard to say what AFR may or may not be willing to do to help out. My phone is 661-705-8508 or a PM would also be fine but I prefer we speak on the phone at this point. Thanks, Tony Quote: Originally Posted by Iron Chef I will send your PM directly to Tony. Tony: Please handle things with this gentleman and include me in your correspondence. If you need an Email, I can provide one. Per forum rules, if this cannot be resolved between you two, he will be entitled to start a thread about it. Thanks, Mike Iron Chef Moderator Quote: Originally Posted by lltrevino I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO PICK A FIGHT, FIRST OFF!!! however, according to a post I just read, people come to this forum to read, and write about experiences with a said vendor. My question is, how do I share the information of a vendor selling an 1100 dollar product, that has flawed castings? I have a set of 2 month od, at the time) core-shifted afr heads ( common problem), that when I contacted customer service @ AFR, I was advised, " AFR was stopping flawed castings from reaching the consumer" . however AFR was not doing anything for the consumer, whom already has this product, whom lost 1100.00?????? every time I talk with Tony, I am ignored, just enhances my point further, dont you think???z well let me know, however I am not looking for a suspension or ban, however I want to share my $1,100+experience!!!!! " |
