Subject: Re: Engine Dyno Predictions: by jsup on 2008/12/25 17:05:32
Quote:
TonyMamo wrote: Prozac...
What are you rambling about?....seriously
Picture this....two Corvettes of the same weight with the same combo's spend $1500 on aftermarket heads looking to improve their performance (One buys Brand "A"....the other buys Brand "D")
A month later they happen to meet on a lonely stretch of two lane blacktop so remote the radar guns call in sick. We all know what happens next....
In the end, one car walks the other car by approximately three car lengths at the end of a 1320 foot blast. Its not even a race...
Which car would you rather be in?
We are talking about sizable differences in performance here....dont even attempt to make it seem meaningless because it just looks worse for you...I will leave it at that.
Also, the gains in power are VERY significant when you consider both of them are leading competitor's products with the same price tag attached. The fact ours are fully CNC ported with very efficient port designs and high quality lightweight valvetrain components makes the purchase that much more of a no brainer for the end user. Which is exactly the point I have been trying to make for the better part of 18 months (concerning the new Eliminator product at least). You want to invest more money in the other brands in an attempt to even the bar, have at it but bigger isnt necessarily better and once you start carving on a 200 cc port in an effort to improve it, low and behold its 210 - 220 cc's before you have seen any notable gains in airflow worth mentioning (and have invested significantly more money point as well). At that point I offer you the new AFR 210 or AFR 227 head....perhaps our higher flowing Comp version of either (seeing as you were dumping a bunch more money in the other castings the price point would likely be less even purchasing our Comp ported package). See where I am going here...so now an apples to apples comparo pits the ported head of your choice to one of our larger much higher flowing pieces (assuming a bigger head is still right for the combination but thats a different argument completely).
Let me sum it up for you....cc for cc, the AFR heads deliver and are arguably the most efficient aftermarket 23' heads per their given size. Better yet they are mass produced, easily attainable, and reasonably affordable all things considered. Not to mention is backed by a 35 year old company that has stellar customer service and involves themselves heavily in these public forums to help out the end users.
When I get a chance I am going to calculate optimal average power curves for the three combo's we tested and look at actual average power gains (not a single peak figure) which is what will determine performance results (trap speeds and ET reductions).
BTW, Im curious if you ever get your new combination to the chassis dyno?
-Tony
Since we're imaging, I'm imagining that the guy with head "A" did all his research on the internet and the combo didn't work and got his ass kicked by the guy with head "D" who knew WTF he was doing and put together the right combination.
We can all imagine, mine's pretty vivid.
Tony, I concede that your 195s are nice heads with a good niche, but dammit you stick them on EVERYTHING. If the criteria is what you lay out, cause not everyone has a 2900 pound race car they are spinning to 6500 rpms on the regular basis. Then yeah, that's your niche'.
I would be very careful however your saying there is no engine that won't make SIGNIFICANTLY more power on any combination out there. That's the type of outrageous claims that get me going. Give me a fully CNC'd track one, where are we at?
Lastly. It was a 25 HP difference, and no one has yet deal with the question of how much of that is due to the CNC porting.
Tony, this is not you:
I find it quite entertaining that the same people who are telling us to spend $1200 on Carillo and Callies rods for a 500HP motor, because "money is no object you need the best" are now making making arguments that a Brodix X-10 or X-11 or having a Dart head cleaned up to get similar numbers is somehow "too expensive". Seems rather hypocritical to me. Why not All Pros at $5K. So over priced rods are ok but the theory doesn't apply to heads. Got it.
Tony, we've been at this a long time. Are we done? Again, post 31 pretty much summed it up, you can redefine horsepower all you want from "under the curve this and that" but the world looks at peak, pure and simple and it was only 25HP. All the simulators in the world aren't going to change that.
I really wish your big claims and marketing weren't so over the top. This exercise did not validate any of it, at least for those with an objective view. No matter how you twist it.
You're picking and choosing differences, there's more the same than different here, and twisting a story how YOUR difference is superior. If exhaust temp was higher for AFR I'm sure you'd be telling us how that is superior. And you know what that's fine. It's your job.
FWIW, a bullet point list criteria before the test, and a lot less secrecy, would have been more effective in making a point. Putting your balls on the line is walking us through it step by step, not waiting till it's over and deciding to release the story or not.
