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bogus My trip to Europe - A commentary
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
20859 Posts
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I just returned from a 16-day trip to Europe. Rather eye opening in the sense of being an American overseas.

First and foremost, Europeans do not know enough about American history to even begin to understand why we have the laws and culture we have. I doubt it is much different the otherway around, either.

In a lunch time discussion; a German colleague could not comprehend our liberal gun laws.

I reminded him that America was created by revolution and was forged on a frontier. That frontier meant that many times, the settler was judge, jury and executioner. That a sheriff was sometimes days away and you had to just deal with the situtation.

Another colleague, from India and now with British citizenship, felt that the US structure left the President as a dictator. It was obvious he had no concept of the three branches of or system and the checks/balances built into it. I don't know if the explainations given did anything to change his opinion, but it at least gave him some facts to chew on.

Tax rates in some of the countries are obsurd. In the Netherlands, there is a road tax, issued quarterly, that can hit 1500 euros!!! QUARTERLY.

Sales tax throughout the EU is just under 20%. Income tax in the Netherlands is 42% then 52%. Ouch. Basically, they don't want ppl either too poor or too rich. Those making under 20k euros are not taxed at all. The tax rate of 42% kicks in all income between 20k and ~56k; and 52% for monies earned above 56k.

All EU nations are about the same re: tax rates.

Now, it should be noted that all this taxation does have a nice payback... health insurance is covered. College education is paid. The roads are PERFECT. Especially in the Netherlands. There is also a nice unemployment scheme. If laid off or fired, you get 4 months at your salary, then a reduced rate. The rest works much like our system - reporting in about applications and such.

Mass transit in the Netherlands are very well done.

In both places I visted, Italy and the Netherlands, the ppl were fantastic. The Italians are warm, emotional and somewhat scattered. But in a very endearing way.

The Dutch are more Germanic, but are warmer and very American in personality. If anything, they are nicer and less cliquish than Americans can be.

Fuel prices throughout Europe are high... 1.40euros for a LITRE... Works out to about $7.00 a gallon. It's not surprising that diesels are very popular.

There is one aspect of the gas prices I do like - no huge SUVs to block up the road. The smaller cars of Europe are not lacking in luxury; climate controls, parking sensors, power stuff, fairly good OEM audio, plenty of passenger space, with still enough luggage room to make short hops. And with smaller cars everywhere, the argument that a small car won't hold up in an accident is moot, cause everything is small.

I actually drove a FIAT for the first time in 30 years... they had no where to go but up... and they have. Not bad. I didn't like the noisy wiper motor and the vague shifter, but otherwise, handled well and rode very nicely.

With all of this, I have reaffirmed my appreciation for America.

Our tax structure is much better, but still needs to reduce its dependancy on the middle class.

We may bitch about the sales taxes that we have, but they are chump change. What we must to is make sure they don't go any higher.

We do need a better healthcare system, we cannot go on as we have been because if we are not careful, we will reach a critical mass and on one will be able to afford it. Am I a huge fan of a purely socialized system? I am not 100% sure... but I know this much: With some semblance of a system, conditions will be found sooner and treated sooner, potentially cutting major illness off at the pass.

That alone will save the system a bundle.

I may be socially to the left, but from an economic standpoint, I am simply pragmatic. I don't feel over taxing is a smart move. It reduces the desire to gain and accumulate wealth. And that hope of gaining wealth is what makes our system work as well as it does. It puts the onus on the person, and not the system to give you motivation.

As an aside, most EU nations have rather low debt, but that is a combo of the aforementioned high tax rates and instutionally low defence expendatures... they just don't have the huge military budgets the USA has...

And how much of the USA military budgets go to protecting the EU? Just a question...
Posted on: 2010/2/28 20:48
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biggrizzly Re: My trip to Europe - A commentary
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
Chesapeake Beach, Maryland
4543 Posts
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Good Commentary Andy. I have never been to Europe but always wanted to go.

My Dad's family has roots in Germany and he and my mom traveled there a couple years ago to re-connect with his cousins and remaining family. As told they were especially warm and hospitable.

Several years before that, my sister flew over to Germany with her husband and hiked into the town my grandfather was raised (Aixheim) and introduced herself to a gentleman in a local shop. He directed her to one of our second cousins home (who had no clue who my sister was). Then they were taken to my dad's uncle's house (in Rottweil - where my grandmother was from) to meet the family.

On the wall where many family photos were hung, was baby pictures of my sister and me, photos of my dad when he was a boy and my grandparents wedding photo.

Its amazing that these people had never met us crazy Americans yet they had our photos hanging on their family photo wall. My sister was amazed that she could just walk into town as a total stranger and be taken in and welcomed by so many strangers.
Posted on: 2010/2/28 21:12
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Vetron87 Re: My trip to Europe - A commentary
Elite Guru
Granger, Indiana
1988 Posts
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Welcome Home Andy!! Your commentary is well stated. I spent 39 days in Germany in the mid 70's. People were friendly but reserved. Beer and Brats were fantastic. Women were big! I mean big! I'm 6'4 they were big!! We had a bar maid that could carry 8 steins of beer.
Posted on: 2010/2/28 22:34
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90EXPVette Re: My trip to Europe - A commentary
Senior Guru
Martinez, Georgia
185 Posts
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Andy,

I spent ten years in Italy and of course traveled all over Europe while there, your observations are pretty much spot on, Italy has a slightly different tax rate but they do tax everything (radio/tv tax, engines over a certain size, the space in the back of a station wagon!) I found quite a few Italians that knew a LOT about American history, and a LOT that seemed to forget it (like who liberated them).
Posted on: 2010/3/2 13:39
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pianoguy Re: My trip to Europe - A commentary
Guru Emeritus
Apple Valley, MN
14762 Posts
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We bought a company from Sweden several years ago - their tax rates are around 55%. They get "free" education and medical coverage, though the waits for medical treatment are long. They buy special insurance that gets them into the queue faster - money still talks.

Before we left on our recent trip to Mexico, I grabbed this book while we were picking up a few magazines - highly recommended if you want a good laugh:

http://www.amazon.com/Dave-Barrys-Travel-Guide-Youll/dp/0449907597
Posted on: 2010/3/2 14:00
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�Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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BeachBum Re: My trip to Europe - A commentary
Master Guru
751 Posts
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2008/11/20 17:01



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Very good commentary Bogus ! I have experienced similar in my travels in Europe. Which I find incredibly fascinating..... you don't realize how old the rest of the world is until you visit it. (We call something an antique after 25 years.... they call that brand spanking new)

I work for a European Corporation....thus have spent a lot of time primarily in Italy, Spain, France, England & Germany. The one thing I have noticed, is that they have a different "pace" than in the United States.... I haven't decided if that is a good thing or a bad thing yet, but it is definitely slower over their and they do seem to take the time to enjoy the small things in life more than we do. I will say, you learn to appreciate our country after being out of it for a while.... my colleagues overseas call the USA the land of Conveience..... gas stations, mini-marts, etc... at every corner and exit. I might be spoiled or lazy or both, but I like that.

On Healthcare, they don't understand our healthcare situation.... or lack of one, basically, the United States, All of Africa and a big chunk of the Middle East have no Universal Healthcare system in place..... the rest of the world either has a Single Payer or Universal healthcare system in place for all of their citizens.... something we cannot manage to do for some reason..... regardless of the fact it might cost a fair penny..... we are worth it.
Posted on: 2010/3/2 23:00
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