Become a Fan!
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember Me

Lost Password?

Register now!
Main Menu
Who's Online
137 user(s) are online (109 user(s) are browsing Forums)

more...
Guru Dictionary
Print in friendly format Send this term to a friend  Collector Edition
RPO Z15.

1996 only.

Silver with black, red or grey interior.

LT1/A4 or LT4/ZF6....
Supporting Vendors
Platinum
Mid America Motorworks
Mid America Motorworks FREE CATALOG


Gold
FIC 770-888-1662


Registered Vendors
Guru Friends
Supporting Banners

TIRERACK.com - Revolutionizing Tire Buying


Shop for Winter Tires Now!




Support This Site
 Register To Post

1986pacecar Brakes 101
Guru Newb
10 Posts
Member since:
2006/1/15 0:00



Offline
My first post and it's good to see some familiar names from the Forum I usually frequent! This spring I plan on installing new brake pads and I also want to bleed the brakes as it hasn't been done since I owned the car. I've never done this before and consider myself a novice when it comes to servicing my cars. I think I know which brakes I'm going to choose and I also plan on getting some speed bleeders but I'm a little nervous about the whole thing. I've got some good books on how to do it but I'm looking for any hints or advice including any special tools I'll need. For instance should I go out and hit the bleeders with some PB Blaster a couple of days before to make sure I don't break them off and end up needing new calipers? Is there a better way to bleed the brakes? Do I buy el cheapo pads or spend a little more on Hawks? Do you sand the rotors as some recommend? Synthetic fluid or not? Those are the kinds of questions I looking for answers to. I appreciate any and all replys. Thanks.
Posted on: 2006/1/15 18:06
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

brut RE:Brakes 101
Guru Emeritus
New Albany, IN
1308 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/6 0:00



Offline
First, welcome to the guru! Hope you enjoy the stay!

OK, Brakes.....hopefully we will get an official tech tip up soon on it.

First, I would use what has been recommended by GM in the system which is DOT 3 or Delco Supreme II.

Second, I have never had a problem getting the bleeder valve loose, but it may not be a bad idea to spray some penetrating oil on it if there is rust in the area.

You will only have to bleed the system, however, if air gets into it. You can change the pads without "opening the system".

You will need just a large C-Clamp and some wrenches.
Remove about half of the fluid from the master cylinder. Put the lid back on. Take your c-clamp and carefully position it against the back of the caliper with the other end against the opposite pad. Its hard to describe, but what you are doing is pushing the piston back into its hole. When you do this, its going to push the fluid back in the master cylinder(thats why we took some out).

You will have to use two wrenches to get the calipers off, one on the nut and one on the guide pin. There are two bolts. Once that is done you can pull the caliper away and replace the pads.

It has always been my practice, whether needed or not, to buy new rotors or have the old ones turned. If you elect to have them turned, make sure you mark how they came off exactly, so they go back on the same way.

Put the calipers back on, tightener up, and add new fluid. Slowly pump the brakes to get the pads back next to the rotors. You shouldn't have to bleed.

As for the types of brakes, I would get the best you can afford. The better ones emitt less dust and are quiter.

Good luck!
Posted on: 2006/1/15 18:47
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

1986pacecar RE:Brakes 101
Guru Newb
10 Posts
Member since:
2006/1/15 0:00



Offline
Thanks for the information. Looking forward to the tech article on brakes. Your article on shocks is great. I'll be referring to it when I install them this spring. It's really too bad more people don't frequent this forum. It has lots of experienced Vette gurus and great info. Thanks again.
Posted on: 2006/1/17 3:35
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

bogus RE:Brakes 101
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
20856 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/7 0:00



Offline
my only thought, which is different than Brutish, is to use Valvoline Synpower Brake Fluid. Great stuff.

I am working on a brake tech tip! I hope to have it shortly.
Posted on: 2006/1/19 6:01
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

brut RE:Brakes 101
Guru Emeritus
New Albany, IN
1308 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/6 0:00



Offline
Yep, it's all about personal preference on the fluid. I have never used a synthetic brake fluid, so don't have the experience with it. I am ok with using what has been recommended by GM.

Let us know how it goes!
Posted on: 2006/1/19 13:37
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

bogus RE:Brakes 101
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
20856 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/7 0:00



Offline
The Valvoline has such great heat handling properties. I have been using it in both the brakes and the clutch. It's fabulous stuff.... meets or exceeds all manufacturers requirements.
Posted on: 2006/1/19 16:01
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

1986pacecar RE:Brakes 101
Guru Newb
10 Posts
Member since:
2006/1/15 0:00



Offline
Been trying to read up as much as I can before I tackle the brakes and have another question. When putting new pads and rotors on do you also replace the caliper bolts as some recommend and does the manufacturer of the rotors and pads supply the hardware or do you have to buy it separately? Thanks again.
Posted on: 2006/1/19 19:58
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

brut RE:Brakes 101
Guru Emeritus
New Albany, IN
1308 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/6 0:00



Offline
I have replaced many brake rotors and pads and I have NEVER replaced the cailper bolts. You can if you want to be "on the safe side". But they do not come with the rotors or pads. You can get them from a place like Autozone or
NAPA.

If it were mine, I would just inpect them and clean them real good.
Posted on: 2006/1/19 20:32
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

SJW RE:Brakes 101
Guru
Central Maryland
51 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/16 0:00



Offline
These guys have given you good advice, but I would suggest you go ahead and bleed the system, even though it's technically not likely to be mandatory.

Dot 3 brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it'll absorb moisture from the atmosphere. Over time, this contributes to corrosion within the hydraulic system, causing problems with calipers, master cylinders, rusted-out and ruptured steel brake lines, etc. The boiling point of DOT 3 will also lowered if it has taken on moisture, and that's not a good thing, especially in a car that's driven and braked aggressively (such as on a road course).

Also, because of DOT 3's hygroscopic nature, you should always only use fluid that's in an unopened or well-sealed container. I only buy the smallest bottles of fluid, so that I don't end up storing a partial container that has a lot of air in it, and if I have a small bottle that's nearly empty, I won't use the remaining fluid after it's been stored. As inexpensive as DOT 3 is, I'd prefer to work from a virgin bottle.

If you bleed/flush your brake system every year or two, it'll go a long way toward keeping the hydraulic system gremlins at bay. If you neglect to do this basic maintenance chore periodically, it'll eventually come back to bite you in the wallet.

Since you'll be that far into it, with the wheels removed, might as well go ahead and bleed 'em while your at it. It's never easier than when the car's already in the air, and the wheels are off, so now's as good a time as any.

As a bonus, if you disturb the bleeder screws every year or two, they'll never seize on you.

Recommendation:

Use a clean (virgin is best) turkey baster to suck the master cylinder reservoir dry.

Crack each bleeder screw open for only an instant, then re-seat it. This is done only to make sure the bleeder isn't seized. If it is, the sooner you learn this, the better. If you end up needing to replace the caliper cuz the bleeder's seized, you'll be glad to find this out before you go any further.

Remove the pads as outlined by Bruthish, and press the pistons fully into the calipers with the C-clamp (don't go crazy with the pressure, just push 'em all the way back in). This will force as much as possible of the existing fluid in the system back up into the M/C reservoir. Suck the reservoir dry again with the baster after pushing each piston back in, to make sure the M/C reservoir doesn't overflow and make a mess under your hood.

You now have a system that has relatively little fluid remaining in it.

Install the new pads, and mount & secure the calipers. Leave the wheels off for now.

Before you step on the pedal (which would push the pistons back out again), gravity bleed the system. To do this:

1. Fill the M/C reservoir up with virgin fluid.

2. Put a length of hose on the bleeder screw at each wheel. This hose should be sized so that it will fit snugly over the bleeder, and stay put when you let go of it. I use clear plastic hose (polyethylene, if I recall correctly) that can be purchased at Home Depot / Lowe's in various diameters. For some bleeders, air line tubing that's used in fish tanks works well. The advantage to using clear tubing is that you can watch what's coming out of the calipers as it's bleeding. This allows you to check for air bubbles and to monitor how fresh (or not) the fluid is as it exits the system during the bleeding process.

3. Stick the loose end of each hose into a container to catch the fluid that will be released.

4. Crack each bleeder screw open. A quarter-turn or so should do just fine.

5. Crack a cold beer open. A quarter-turn or so should do just fine here, too.

6. Grab a chair.

7. Drink the cold beer.

8. Get up every 5 or 10 minutes, and check the M/C reservoir fluid level. Refill as it drops. Make sure it never runs completely dry, or air will enter the system, and you'll have a more lengthy bleeding process to remove it.

9. Repeat steps 5 through 8 until the fluid that's coming out of the bleeders looks as clear and fresh as the fluid you're putting into the system, then close the bleeders, remove the hoses and containers, and top off the M/C reservoir. Wipe residual fluid, if any, off of the calipers, etc so that none ends up on the tires. Brake fluid is NOT good for your tires.

When you've finished bleeding the system, step on the pedal a few times, going only around 1/2 way to the floor with the pedal on each stroke (you're only going 1/2 way down so that you won't run the risk of tripping the warning light switch). After a few strokes, check the fluid level in the M/C reservoir again. What you're doing now is pushing the caliper pistons back out as far as they'll go, to their normal resting position. This will draw fuild out of the reservoir, so keep checking it to make sure it doesn't run dry. If it runs dry, it'll suck air into the system, and you'll have to repeat the bleeding process to get the air back out.

Repeat this work-the-pedal / check the fluid level process until you get a firm pedal under your foot. If you neglect do do this process, the pedal will go straight to the floor when you step on it, cuz the pistons will still be recessed in the caliper bores. This can lead to Very Bad Things happening if you test drive the car before you've obtained a firm pedal -- it's the sort of nasty surprise nobody needs.

Gravity bleeding is the lazy man's way to bleed brakes, and it requires no pedal pushing or special equipment. You don't have to recruit your wife to work the pedal while you work the bleeders, you don't need speed bleeders (they are pretty cool, though), and you don't need a pressure bleeder.

Speed bleeders and pressure bleeders are faster, but if you're not in a hurry, gravity bleeding will get the job done just fine, and as far as I'm concerned, any job that will do itself while I drink cold beer is a fine job indeed.

If the car has ABS, follow the procedure in the Factory Service Manual in order to achieve a full system flush/bleed.

Be well,

SJW
Posted on: 2006/2/2 21:16
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

brut RE:Brakes 101
Guru Emeritus
New Albany, IN
1308 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/6 0:00



Offline
WOw...thanks SJW! Glad to have your input...you need to come around more often!
Posted on: 2006/2/3 1:37
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

SJW RE:Brakes 101
Guru
Central Maryland
51 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/16 0:00



Offline
Quote:
WOw...thanks SJW! Glad to have your input...you need to come around more often!


Maybe I will, now that things seem to have stabilized here.

I was kinda bummed when all posts that had been made here (previous to the big changes were implemented) got dumped, and I haven't been back very often since then.

I ended up re-typing at least one how-to (repairing the late-C4 console lid/cover) that I'd posted here, cuz somebody on CF was asking how to do it, and when I tried to refer them to the post I'd made about it on this Forum, it had vanished...

Thanks for the kind words. I hope the how-to post proves to be helpful.

Be well,

SJW
Posted on: 2006/2/3 20:30
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

brut RE:Brakes 101
Guru Emeritus
New Albany, IN
1308 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/6 0:00



Offline
Believe me, I was bummed too that it all wouldn't transfer over, but it was something that needed to be done. It seemed like the forum feel flat on it's face after that and we have been chasing it ever since.

We hope to make some more changes here soon.

As far as your article, do you have pics along with the tip? If so, email the stuff to me

bruthish@aol.com

I will set it up and get it posted.
Posted on: 2006/2/3 21:39
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

SJW RE:Brakes 101
Guru
Central Maryland
51 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/16 0:00



Offline
Quote:
Believe me, I was bummed too that it all wouldn't transfer over, but it was something that needed to be done. It seemed like the forum feel flat on it's face after that and we have been chasing it ever since.

We hope to make some more changes here soon.

As far as your article, do you have pics along with the tip? If so, email the stuff to me

bruthish@aol.com

I will set it up and get it posted.


If you're referring to the console lid repair how-to, no, regrettably I didn't think to shoot any pix during that repair, so all I had was text. If you're interested, I can shoot that text to you...

Be well,

SJW
Posted on: 2006/2/5 1:46
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

brut RE:Brakes 101
Guru Emeritus
New Albany, IN
1308 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/6 0:00



Offline
Yeah go ahead and send it to me. I may be able to snap some pics for it.
Posted on: 2006/2/5 2:41
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

1986pacecar RE:Brakes 101
Guru Newb
10 Posts
Member since:
2006/1/15 0:00



Offline
Just wanted to thank those who helped me with the brake post. This past weekend I finally worked up enough courage to tackle the front pads and rotors. I can't say it was easy but somehow I managed to get them installed and working :D I managed to snap a caliper pin bolt because I overtorqued it out of ignorance. Having no previous experience with a torque wrench, I keep listening for a click on the 22-24 pound bolts but apparently my torque wrench doesn't make an audible click on lower settings, so here is this dummy torqueing away until SNAP :oops: Good thing I had extra bolts and pins. :lol: Well next weekend I'm hoping to get to the rears and hopefully learn from my mistakes. Thanks again.
Posted on: 2006/3/13 21:50
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

billy break pedal very firm and need a hard push
Guru Newb
2 Posts
Member since:
2006/3/19 0:00



Offline
Hi all C4 fans. I have just bought a 1990 C4 coupe and I have a question about its breaks.
The break pedal is very firm and to get the car to stop quickly it requires quite a lot of pressure. Is this normal for C4's or is there a problem with the breaks?
If you think it requires work and new parts does anybody have an idea of what sort of money it will take to fix?

Thanks in advance,
Billy.
Posted on: 2006/3/19 20:06
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

Skidmarks RE:Brakes 101
Guru
Blue Mound, Illinois
98 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/16 0:00



Offline
Typically, C4 brakes are a little stiff. If you've never driven 1 before it takes some getting used to.
Posted on: 2006/3/22 19:58
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

billy RE:Brakes 101
Guru Newb
2 Posts
Member since:
2006/3/19 0:00



Offline
Thanks for the reply. Helps set my mind at rest.
Posted on: 2006/3/27 0:36
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

SJW RE:Brakes 101
Guru
Central Maryland
51 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/16 0:00



Offline
I too found the high pedal effort on my C4 to be a bit unnerving until I got accustomed to it.

Bottom line is: If you can stomp on it hard enough to activate the ABS, everything's probably normal. If you can't get into the ABS even when standing on the pedal, look for something that's amiss...

Be well,

SJW
Posted on: 2006/3/27 18:36
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

jrp RE:Brakes 101
Guru Newb
Littleton, CO
1 Posts
Member since:
2006/4/25 0:00



Offline
Quote:

When you've finished bleeding the system, step on the pedal a few times, going only around 1/2 way to the floor with the pedal on each stroke (you're only going 1/2 way down so that you won't run the risk of tripping the warning light switch). ....

Repeat this work-the-pedal / check the fluid level process until you get a firm pedal under your foot. If you neglect do do this process, the pedal will go straight to the floor when you step on it, cuz the pistons will still be recessed in the caliper bores. This can lead to Very Bad Things happening if you test drive the car before you've obtained a firm pedal -- it's the sort of nasty surprise nobody needs.


I'm glad I saw your post. I just replaced pads/rotors and bled the brake fluid for the first time. The pedal is firm, but I didn't work the pedal like you described so I'll go back and do it to make sure. None of my searching turned up that tidbit of advice.

Quote:
Remove the pads as outlined by Bruthish, and press the pistons fully into the calipers with the C-clamp (don't go crazy with the pressure, just push 'em all the way back in).


I didn't have clamps available, but was able to accomplish this with a pair of pliers while the pads were still in. Just put it in beween the pads and opened the pliers. Worked quick and easy.

Quote:
2. Put a length of hose on the bleeder screw at each wheel... I use clear plastic hose (polyethylene, if I recall correctly) that can be purchased at Home Depot / Lowe's in various diameters....you can watch what's coming out of the calipers as it's bleeding.


I installed speed bleeders, but had my wife in the car pressing the pedal anyway just so I could watch and make sure I knew what I was looking at this first time. One trick I happened upon is to put a piece of white paper behind the tubing. It was even easier then to distinguish between the old and new fluid, and I found that small amounts of old fluid passed by at random even after it looked completely fresh. I had my wife pump the pedal a few extra times after that to be certain. Too bad I didn't discover this when I did the rears.
Posted on: 2006/4/25 20:37
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer

You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]


CorvetteForum.guru is independently owned and operated. This site is not associated with or financially supported by General Motors.

Copyright 2008-2015 CorvetteForum.guru

CorvetteForum.guru is a Guru Garage Site (Coming Soon!)

If you have any questions about our site, please contact us at Andy@corvetteforum.guru.

Powered by XOOPS 2.56 Copyright 2001-2014 www.xoops.org

Hosted by GoDaddy.com.