WGI incident [Forums - Road Racing and Autocrossing]

Road Racing and Autocrossing > WGI incident
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BrianCunningham	WGI incident	#1
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	glad they're OK http://forums.corvetteforum.com/autoc ... -on-wednesday-at-wgi.html [QUOTE]Bill Dearborn; The first student session of the first day of the Trackmasters event at WGI my student and I witnessed an 06 Z06 flip over in Turn 6. The car was about a couple hundred feet in front of us as we went down the chute. Instead of turning in at the turn in point he just kept to the far right side of the track and only started turning when the pavement turned. The right side of the car went into the grass and went a little further to the right on the grass where it started sideswiping the tire wall. Once it hit the tires they just seemed to grab it and pull it in to the point the right front rode up onto the tire wall. When the car got to the point where it was completely on its side it sort of stopped and held there just a moment and then fell backwards onto its roof. The right side A pillar collapsed but the Halo bar held up very well. The instructor on that side had his head pushed forward as the top came in on him due to the A pillar collapsing. There wasn't enough room to crawl out his side of the car so he had to crawl out of the driver's side. Neither occupant was hurt. That is one of the scariest things I have witnessed. Definitely a sobering sight. Bill[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Bill Dearborn; I finally got around to downloading some pictures I took of the car. They show how far the top crushed inward. The instructor is around 6' 2" or 3" tall so with a helmet on his head was very close to the headliner. Not a lot of room in there for his head considering he was hanging upside down on the belts. [IMG]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g270/BillD64/IMG_0014a.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g270/BillD64/IMG_0019a.jpg[/IMG] It sure has made me think about whether I want to put my race seats and 6 point harnesses in my car if I don't have a cage. Even though the stock harness probably latched tight during the impact a person could still move around the single shoulder strap while two shoulder belts would hold you almost vertical in the seat. Wearing a HANS could be a problem as well since it limits forward head motion. Nothing like supporting the weight of the car with your neck/back bone. Bill[/QUOTE]
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 17:41
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pianoguy	Re: WGI incident	#2
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Uffda, close call!
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 18:02
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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BillH	Re: WGI incident	#3
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	I'll be instructing on the 28th. You really have to take a firm hand with students who have fast cars or guys who are pushing it a bit too much. Not saying this was the case here but some drivers just don't get it. I had to slow down a Rousch mustang last month cause the guy came too close to f_cking up a few times.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 18:44
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1Fast04Vert	Re: WGI incident	#4
Elite Guru The hills of N. Georgia 2424 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Bet the driver/owner will really be hurting when he finds out his insurance won't cover the damage.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 19:11
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Aboatguy	Re: WGI incident	#5
Senior Guru My Avatar was redistributed! 498 Posts Member since: 2007/12/3 0:00	Quote: 95vette wrote: Bet the driver/owner will really be hurting when he finds out his insurance won't cover the damage. Just another reason to keep it on the street, and I've never seen one of those dangerous "car grabbing" tire walls on the street
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 19:25

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TommyT-Bone	Re: WGI incident	#6
Chair-man of the bored Homestead USA 33760 Posts Member since: 2007/12/10 0:00	Quote: 95vette wrote: Bet the driver/owner will really be hurting when he finds out his insurance won't cover the damage. It might if it was drivers education.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 19:43

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BrianCunningham	Re: WGI incident	#7
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	You not suggesting street racing are you? BTW when I had my OFF @ RA my car was covered HPDE are considered driver's instruction not racing
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 19:45
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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1Fast04Vert	Re: WGI incident	#8
Elite Guru The hills of N. Georgia 2424 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: You not suggesting street racing are you? BTW when I had my OFF @ RA my car was covered HPDE are considered driver's instruction not racing No, I am not suggesting street racing. And, no, insurance does not cover any incident on a track, drag or road. You can buy insurance supplements for track days, one day at a time for about $200 each.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 19:56
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BrianCunningham	Re: WGI incident	#9
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Mine was covered, but I think I was lucky The supplemental insurance is a good deal.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 21:02
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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CentralCoaster	Re: WGI incident	#10
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Wow. From the description it sounds like a slow rollover, scary that the A pillar would collapse. I think tire walls are very dangerous. They at least need some sort of smooth barrier attached to them to prevent the car from climbing or grabbing onto them and whipping around. Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: BTW when I had my OFF @ RA my car was covered HPDE are considered driver's instruction not racing Depends on the insurance and what you can get away with. They don't even always keep their promises, plus I've also seen policies explicitly prohibiting any sort of performance track driving, whether it's racing or not. Insurance agents will lie through their teeth all day to sell you a policy, but the adjuster is what makes those decisions, and you don't get to talk to him until it's too late.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 22:36
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BillH	Re: WGI incident	#11
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: Aboatguy wrote: Quote: 95vette wrote: Bet the driver/owner will really be hurting when he finds out his insurance won't cover the damage. Just another reason to keep it on the street, and I've never seen one of those dangerous "car grabbing" tire walls on the street I'd rather hit a tire wall than a tree.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 23:52
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BillH	Re: WGI incident	#12
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: I think tire walls are very dangerous. They at least need some sort of smooth barrier attached to them to prevent the car from climbing or grabbing onto them and whipping around. Some do, they use a rubber mat, 1/2-3/4 in thick. But it's up to the track to fund it. It covers the front of the tires. And it depends on who builds the tire wall, how it's banded together (if it even is). There are some guidelines on doing it out there. Beats the hell out of hitting a wall.
	Posted on: 2010/8/3 23:58
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Aboatguy	Re: WGI incident	#13
Senior Guru My Avatar was redistributed! 498 Posts Member since: 2007/12/3 0:00	Quote: BillH wrote: Quote: Aboatguy wrote: Quote: 95vette wrote: Bet the driver/owner will really be hurting when he finds out his insurance won't cover the damage. Just another reason to keep it on the street, and I've never seen one of those dangerous "car grabbing" tire walls on the street I'd rather hit a tire wall than a tree. I'd rather hit nothing at all...... Seems like a lot of street cars get jacked up at the track hitting walls. I've seen numerous videos of C6 Zs hitting the wall at drag strips too. IMO sand pits, grassy areas and the like would be a better option. MIke
	Posted on: 2010/8/4 0:43

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BillH	Re: WGI incident	#14
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: Aboatguy wrote: I'd rather hit nothing at all...... Seems like a lot of street cars get jacked up at the track hitting walls. I've seen numerous videos of C6 Zs hitting the wall at drag strips too. IMO sand pits, grassy areas and the like would be a better option. MIke Granted, Mike. I don't like to hit things but they're there on the track or the strip. A guy in an alcohol fulled dragster got killed by hitting the safety net in the sand pit at the end of the strip last month ( the new safety improvements). So nothings for sure. Sand pits (gravel traps) work well but are a real pain for guys who race because of the time it takes crews to remove the car but they are good for the street car events. Grassy areas are really dangerous unless they are big enough to let a car stop on them from 150+. When you go off at speed and hit grass with the brakes on, your speed actually increases, they're just that slippery. This accident took place at Watkins Glen, a very tough track to drive a street car on. What Brian didn't post (no offence Bri) is that this driver was stupid, he felt the brakes going away in the previous corner and didn't tell the instructor or slow down. He also was in a totally wrong line going into the corner per an instructor in a Viper behind him. The tire wall's not to blame here and tire walls have proven themselves over the years. I've been into them many times and was glad they were there. This is extremely rare in HPDE events and usually caused by someone being overzealous. I have over 17,000 miles as an instructor in these events and have never been in a bad situation with my students, spun, yes but nothing bad. Most events run all day with zero incidents.
	Posted on: 2010/8/4 1:42
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BrianCunningham	Re: WGI incident	#15
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Quote: BillH wrote: What Brian didn't post (no offence Bri).... none taken didn't want to repost the whole thread here.
	Posted on: 2010/8/4 1:48
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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CentralCoaster	Re: WGI incident	#16
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Quote: BillH wrote: This accident took place at Watkins Glen, a very tough track to drive a street car on. What Brian didn't post (no offence Bri) is that this driver was stupid, he felt the brakes going away in the previous corner and didn't tell the instructor or slow down. He also was in a totally wrong line going into the corner per an instructor in a Viper behind him. Stupid may not be the right word. Inexperienced. Maybe he plowed to the outside of the corner while panicking about having no brakes. I had a tiny hint of brake fade on the street once, horsing around, had just passed a C5z, and the following turn I had zero brakes whatsoever. After nearly breaking the back of my seat trying to get it slowed down, I just forced a downshift and turned in anyways and the slide slowed me down. The brakes were completely gone until I got to the bottom of the hill and let them cool. My point is, he may not have realized how quickly the brakes can go from a little weak, to nothing at all.
	Posted on: 2010/8/4 4:15
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CentralCoaster	Re: WGI incident	#17
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Quote: BillH wrote: Sand pits (gravel traps) work well but are a real pain for guys who race because of the time it takes crews to remove the car but they are good for the street car events. Grassy areas are really dangerous unless they are big enough to let a car stop on them from 150+. When you go off at speed and hit grass with the brakes on, your speed actually increases, they're just that slippery. I'd rather see pavement. Cars don't roll on pavement on their own, and they slow the car down safely. I noticed at Talledega for example, they replaced a bunch of infield grass with pavement, because the grass just grabs onto the cars and flips them.
	Posted on: 2010/8/4 4:18
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BillH	Re: WGI incident	#18
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Quote: BillH wrote: Sand pits (gravel traps) work well but are a real pain for guys who race because of the time it takes crews to remove the car but they are good for the street car events. Grassy areas are really dangerous unless they are big enough to let a car stop on them from 150+. When you go off at speed and hit grass with the brakes on, your speed actually increases, they're just that slippery. I'd rather see pavement. Cars don't roll on pavement on their own, and they slow the car down safely. I noticed at Talledega for example, they replaced a bunch of infield grass with pavement, because the grass just grabs onto the cars and flips them. Yep, coefficient of friction.
	Posted on: 2010/8/4 12:24
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