Frankly, I'm no longer likely to fly anymore.

Lets learn some lessons from the Israelis and save our dignity as a nation.

I'm so pissed at the reductions of freedom of our citizens for fear of terrorist threats. This Land of the Free is becoming a police state. I think it would be better to have a plane fall out of the sky now and then than to go through all this bullshit. Find out who dropped the plane and destroy their villages. Terrorists would understand their families will die if they attack American citizens. Let somebody scan that.

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AMEN!

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Same here...not flying anywhere...
Definitely agree... Let's implement the Israelis procedures..NOW.

I got groped by an airport security guy in Amsterdam. I thought he just liked me.

.

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Adopting the Israeli method of airport security would sure create needed jobs because we would be training and hiring 10's of thousands of new airport security personnel. I like Tommy's idea better.

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Last Christmas we bought a Star Wars blaster gun for our nephew. My wife had wrapped the present before we left. The airport security did not like it at all. They had to get a supervisor to unwrap it to check it out. The lady was trying to be nice and not to damage the wrapping. My wife and I didn't really care since we knew there was more wrapping paper in the world. It was pretty funny because there was a lady in line that became very upset about them unwrapping a kids present.

My mother and I were flying back to the States from Frankfurt Germany in 1973. She had purchased a set of dishes that were boxed and wrapped with brown paper secured with string. There were about 5 boxes. We had to open every one of them for inspection by German Customs/Immigration inspectors before we could board the plane. This has actually been going on for a very long time. When we entered Czechoslovakia on the way over I was strip searched by Czeck officials . I was 17 at the time. I was like ....

Shoe Bomber Sentence



Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and

tried to light it?



Did you know his trial is over?

Did you know he was sentenced?

Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV or Radio?

Didn't think so.!!!



Everyone should hear what the judge had to say.



Ruling by Judge William Young, US District Court.



Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say

His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid

also admitted his 'allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the

religion of Allah,' defiantly stating, 'I think I will not apologize for my

actions,' and told the court 'I am at war with your country.'



Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:



Judge Young: 'Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court

imposes upon you.



On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the

custody of the United States Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7,

the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on

each count to run consecutively. (That's 80 years.)



On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years again, to be

served consecutively to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon

you for each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 that's an aggregate fine

of $2 million. The Court accepts the government's recommendation with

respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to

Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.



The Court imposes upon you an $800 special assessment. The Court imposes

upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it.

But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.



This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and

just sentence. It is a righteous sentence.



Now, let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any of your

terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been

through the fire before. There is too much war talk here and I say that to

everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, we deal with

individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals. As

human beings, we reach out for justice.



You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier

in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a

soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether the officers of government

do it or your attorney does it, or if you think you are a soldier, you are

not----- you are a terrorist. And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We

do not meet with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We

hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.



So war talk is way out of line in this court You are a big fellow. But you

are not that big. You're no warrior. I've known warriors. You are a

terrorist. A species of criminal that is guilty of multiple attempted

murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you

first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the

press and the TV crews were, and he said: 'You're no big deal.'



You are no big deal.



What your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys

have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to

grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led

you here to this courtroom today?



I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to

search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to

do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing? And, I have an

answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search this entire record,

it comes as close to understanding as I know.



It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious. You hate

our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we

choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we

individually choose. Here, in this society, the very wind carries freedom.

It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize

individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom, so

that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly,

individually, and discretely. It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers

are striving so vigorously on your behalf, have filed appeals, will go on in

their representation of you before other judges.



We Americans are all about freedom. Because we all know that the way we

treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake

though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden; pay any price, to

preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The

world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. The day after

tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure.



Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America , the American

people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not

war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very President of the

United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and

lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of

citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold

and shape and refine our sense of justice.



See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America .

That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands

for freedom. And it always will.



Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down.

Pity the poor employee that spends their day either groping or viewing the average American's anatomy. Yuck.

What happened to the outrage?

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That judge's statement sounds nice but it's complete bullshit.

1. We aren't a free country.
2. The shoe bomber was a big deal, because now all of us sheep are removing our shoes for no reason other than to appease those who like to impose their fear on others.
3. There would have been a busload of media reporters there as he was taken off the plan if they had the opportunity.

And last but not least:

4. Terrorists don't hate America because of our freedoms.

Anybody who claims so is insulting your intelligence.

Two comments:

1) Having gone through US (and foreign) customs about 8 times this year alone, and simple airport security another 5 (within CUS), I find it hard to believe that the present system really roots out terrorrists with high effectiveness.

2) Regardless of #1, is it really that big of a deal? Honestly? This is harldy a violation of human rights. If your biggest worry in life is having to take your shoes off at the airport once or twice a year than you must have the best life ever. It must be free of job pressures, financial concerns, marital or family issues, health concerns, etc. Let's trade.

On second thought, let's not. I love being able to fly all over the world and experience other people and places very unlike ours. To date I have not found one that holds a candle to home, but I like to visit nonetheless. Who are you punishing if you decide never to travel again? Seems only yourself.

Sure, it's annoying taking off my belt, watch, cel, laptop, shoes, etc in a 100 person line. But I just show up at the airport 5 minutes earlier.

Yeah why not, if it saves even one life.


Here's a timeline to ponder:

1. Terrorists board planes and crash them.

2. Government starts screening passengers.

3. Terrorists plot to blow up plane with liquid explosives.

4. Government limits liquids to 3 ounces.

5. Terrorist attempts to blow up plane with shoe bomb.

6. Government makes you take your shoes off.

7. Terrorist attempts to blow up plane with underwear bomb.

8. Government uses superman machine to see you naked.

9. Terrorist sticks bomb in his asshole, shits it out midflight and blows up plane.

Do you really want to find out what the government does for #10?

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08:09)TommyT-Bone: I'm off to see The Wizard (Insert Wizard With Magic Wand Emoticon here)


(08:43)pianoguy: I hope the wizard is not a proctologist.


12:34)bogus: sounds like a pain in the ass regardless...

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I honestly expect that #8 will resolve many issues.

However, I harken back to Thomas Jefferson:

"Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither."

There are risks associated with freedom... we must be willing to accept those risks.

To be honest, freedom is not free. Soldiers have died defending freedom. However, defending freedom is not some much an action, it is a state of mind. Many of the restrictions placed on our system have been designed to root out terrorists, but at the same time, have made the common man a potential criminal.

They add up, inclusive of laws that cities or states pass that are designed to protect our better good. It's little things... helmets with bicyles... no more riding in pickup truck beds... can't smoke anywhere... can't own a gun... some are more serious, some are minor, but they are chipping away at our individual freedoms in an attempt to create a zero risk nation.

For that I blame lawyers. Sure, they do some good, we need some, but at the same time, we don't need that many and we don't need them coming up with new and exciting ways to screw us with our own ignorance or neglegence.

Case in point, I am a docent at a local car museum. In our collection is a really cool 1941 Henney bodied Packard Ambulance. After WWII, it served a small town in Ohio until retirement. After it was retired, it became a historic vehicle for the FD to use in parades and such.

During a parade, summer 1982, a man was felled with a heart attack. The only ambulance near was the 1941 Packard.

The crew broke ranks, rescued the man and took him to the hospital, saving his life.

Several weeks later, the victims attorney sued the city for using "antiquated rescue equipment."

This was a lawyer who was going to sue regardless. The city was going lose regardless. I would be willing to bet money that if they waited until the modern equipment arrived, they would have been sued for delay.

As it was, the city was ordered to destroy or sell the ambulance. I don't know if the victim got any money.

Regardless, it is stories like that which make me ill.

Oh, that and the hot coffee law suit.

Litigation has it's place. How would I have got a $1.00 coupon had a lawyer not sued the manufacturer. Or a $6.75 rebate on my phone bill for overcharges or a credit to my electric bill for some small nominal amount had not a team of attorneys raked in millions protecting me from these corporations. Thank God someone is watching out for me.

One of my coworkers was scalded by hot coffee at Carl's jr. They handed her a tray full of 4 coffees, one with the lid loose, that spilled in her lap, she flinched, and spilled the other 3, and has showed me the scars from it. She chose not to pursue anything. I'm not sure what need there is for a drink that can cause permanent burns. How will you drink it?

Another coworker was hit in a car accident, injured his arm. It became a nagging injury and he finally sought out some help for it. When he tried to recover the medical costs from the other guys' insurance, they told him to pound sand. So he hired a lawyer who sued them for way more than the medical expenses. They had their chance.

If I've learned anything it's that there's 2 sides to every story. Blaming lawyers is like blaming supply for there being a demand. Yes, I've worked with plenty of scumbag attorneys in my line of work, but they wouldn't be there if people didn't hire them.

Anyways yeah, freedom isn't free, but it's still cheaper than paying the military to occupy other countries and to buy machines that can see grandma's underwear. You just have to want it.

And to make the TSA even more incredible, (or should I say un-credible)

They're planning on UNIONIZING!!!!

Gosh, what did we do for 60 years without them?!?!

I guess I don't care about airport security measure updates.

I'll walk through their machine naked and save them the time and hassle of scanning me. Maybe it'll save them a few bucks.

That shoe bomber judge made a very eloquent speech.
Speaking of lawyers, 40 states attorney generals are investigating to find out if some people were unfairly foreclosed on their homes. While teams of lawyers are trying to determine what if any wrongdoing was done, their major concern is who will foot the bill for representing plaintiffs who may not be solvent.

People don't have to hire lawyers for them to start something. The lawyers are starting lawsuits without clients, just watch tv. They'll read the New England Medical Journal, find one paragraph where one person had a small reaction to a drug and put a commercial on tv saying "You may be entitled to a BIG reward".

And I didn't hire a lawyer, just got a class action lawsuit notice in the mail. I didn't even have to reply.

A year later I got a letter with the results, "We Won"
I had 1,000 shares of a company, the stock dropped from $60 to $10 a share, you do the math.
The lawyers were very happy that the won and said, if I send in the form, they'll reimburse me $0.10 a share, hot damn.

BTW, the lawyers got $1.8 million AFTER expensies.

I just love lawyers.

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That's enough to go for 10 rides to the Casino.

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What's your alternative? Come to the table with solutions, complaints alone don't help us much.

Should we ground all of the planes? Should only people of certain races be screened (as if this didn't happen already). Should we only be allowed to travel with clear luggage? I'm listening.

Again, it seems you've chosen the alternative "stay home and bitch about it".

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You'd all be as jaded toward our own idiocy as I am if you knew the lawsuits we are frequently dragged into. Want to avoid lawyers? Don't choose a career in engineering automotive safety products.

FYI, in case you didn't know, it's my fault if you don't wear your seatbelt and get hurt.

I'm willing to deal with certain personal inconveniences for safety...that's a trade off. To me it still hasn't gotten over the point I'm comfortable with. How about this guy:

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Get rid of the scanners and pat downs. Get rid of the TSA entirely. Leave it up to the airline industry and airports to decide their own security measures. Let the customers decide the opportunity cost of extra security measures, by voting with their wallet, not the government imposing it on them. Sure some planes may fall out of the sky every now and then, but that has to be done in conjunction with staying the hell out of the business of other nations that don't want us there. If you spend money toiling in other countries' affairs overseas, you are forced to spend more money defending yourselves from them. It's like trying to extinquish a money fire by dumping more money on it.

There is no accountability with the TSA, and it gets bigger and more expensive every year. Have they accomplished or prevented anything besides 8oz shampoo bottles from boarding?

I'm not sure what exactly Israel's profiling process is, but if racial profiling is used here, it's just another excuse for extremists to hate and target America.

Here's a video from 2008 of a guy testing their pat downs with a mock explosive on his body:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/28/tsa. ... st/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Next time I go through a scanner I'm going to flip the bird with both hands.

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That's fine if you're willing to make that trade-off, but do you think that justifies imposing it on everyone else?

Some reading here on the pat downs/groping, whatever you want to call it... and yes they're sticking their hands in people's pants and groping groins. Depends on the location I guess.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel ... t-out-stories-merged.html

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Yes, because I'm paying to take a flight that I expect to be safe on, as far as free from terrorist acts that can be prevented. If you don't agree, you can always take a train.

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Giving the terrorists ideas, huh?

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Interesting thought. I almost always vote with capatalism, so this poses an interesting theory. Just as Volvo did in the 80's, you would have airlines pitching safety. "Delta airlines - no terrorists have made in on our planes in 18 years". Or "Fly southwest - you may explode in the air but we won't grab your junk!"

The problem (as I see it) in this situation is that the airport infrastructure isn't designed to support this. Would we have to install scanners at each gate? Certain you can't have a line at the front end security area (where they are today) for each individual airline.

Perhaps the destination is also indicitive of the level of security required. More security into NYC, less into Des Moines. And if the terrorists start flying into Des Moines as a free pass into the country, at least they have to drive through 1,000 miles of corn before blowing anything up. That's a pretty strong deterrent...

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It sounds like you are the one with the newfound fear, maybe you should take the train.

Hundreds of passengers board a train. In the interest of safety and security I think the railways and busways should look into expanding TSA to oversee their security. Ya, That's it. Let's bring them in under the umbrella. A short commute downtown should only take say ... a couple of hours. Wouldn't you feel better knowing every passenger has been checked? Think of how many domestic robberies and assaults could be stopped by adding security check points. And random road blocks too. That would make me feel safe. What's a couple of extra moments on the commute when I know it's for my own good.

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And this just in.......

"The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is warning that any would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint and then refuses to undergo the method of inspection designated by TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport.

That person will have to remain on the premises to be questioned by the TSA and possibly by local law enforcement. Anyone refusing faces fines up to $11,000 and possible arrest."

First off, I can be arrested for deciding NOT TO FLY?

And what happened to our 4th Amendment right?

I'm beginning to think the TSA is becoming the "national police".
Didn't the Germans have a national police force?

Wasn't that group called the Gestapo?
Formed by who? And for what purpose?

This isn't just about body searches anymore.

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Up next - Martial Law, Protective Custody Internment Camps

....

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Exactly.... " Don't touch my junk" Look what they are trying to do to this guy ..... Just sayin

I don't know! Somewhere common sense needs to be considered. We don't fly much and when we do it is out of the Midwest into Florida or California. We think security is a hassel but realize that without it the masses will not fly and we all know what happens to several industries when that happens.

Now if someone is going to touch me or mine I won't be very happy but we have not come up against that yet, so decisions would have to be made. I do know that there has not been a lot of airplanes blown up since security has been implemented. Something must be working.

If it's pissing you off, which we should all be concerned when our rights are being pushed, then you write the airlines and your gov't reps and if enough folks do that then the TSA will back off. That's how we roll in this great country of ours.

A groundswell of discontent. If that would move the Federal government it would be a first. They'd have to call out the National Guard before they would even condsider it."government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." First you have to be one of the people.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address

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Not a lot of airplanes were blown up before 9/11 either. Every single one of these measures are knee-jerk. I honestly doubt it would keep the masses from flying if pre-9/11 security was in place. People have knee jerk reactions too. Many wouldn't board a plan after that event, but they got over that soon enough without having to be groped.

I get the feeling someone is sitting in a cave somewhere laughing at us.

This just in......... TSA agents are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

"As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan, I witnessed the following:

When we were on our way back from Afghanistan, we flew out of Baghram Air Field. We went through customs at BAF, full body scanners (no groping), had all of our bags searched, the whole nine yards.

Our first stop was Shannon, Ireland to refuel. After that, we had to stop at Indianapolis, Indiana to drop off about 100 folks from the Indiana National Guard. That’s where the stupid started.

First, everyone was forced to get off the plane–even though the plane wasn’t refueling again. All 330 people got off that plane, rather than let the 100 people from the ING get off. We were filed from the plane to a holding area. No vending machines, no means of escape. Only a male/female latrine.

It’s probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying weapons. Everyone was carrying an M4 Carbine (rifle) and some, like me, were also carrying an M9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240B machine guns. Of course, the weapons weren’t loaded. And we had been cleared of all ammo well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then AGAIN at customs.

The TSA personnel at the airport seriously considered making us unload all of the baggage from the SECURE cargo hold to have it reinspected. Keep in mind, this cargo had been unpacked, inspected piece by piece by U.S. Customs officials, resealed and had bomb-sniffing dogs give it a one-hour run through. After two hours of sitting in this holding area, the TSA decided not to reinspect our Cargo–just to inspect us again: Soldiers on the way home from war, who had already been inspected, reinspected and kept in a SECURE holding area for 2 hours. Ok, whatever. So we lined up to go through security AGAIN.

This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us were carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also carrying pistols.

So we’re in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers had his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous, but it gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets and has a pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the Soldier that they’re going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went something like this:

TSA Guy: You can’t take those on the plane.

Soldier: What? I’ve had them since we left country.

TSA Guy: You’re not suppose to have them.

Soldier: Why?

TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.

Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a weapon. And I’m allowed to take it on.

TSA Guy: Yeah but you can’t use it to take over the plane. You don’t have bullets.

Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?

TSA Guy: [awkward silence]

Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the f**k out of here. I’ll buy you a new set.

Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]

This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233 people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and machine guns–but nothing that could have been used as a weapon."

FWIW, I think the rules are very specific now about allowing blades under 4 inches. So most pocketknifes or leathermans are allowed. Unfortunately, the high school drop outs enforcing the rules probably don't know the rules. And of course, arguing with them is a federal crime in their mind.

Coming soon
TSA Bumper Stickers

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