FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! -- UPDATED 6 Jan!! [Forums - C4 Technical]

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bogus	FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! -- UPDATED 6 Jan!!	#1
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	no... I am not doing my Beavis thing... I was putting one out... on the VETTE! The right cat, or something in that general area, flamed out this morning. I just got on the 91 and it lost all sorts of power... missing real bad... but I was so close to work, why stop? Then I saw red sparky things in my rear view? WTF? It sounded like the exhaust was dragging, but it didn't feel like that. I parked it, looked around, no exhaust issues, no flat tires... open the hood, see smoke!!! Peak on the pass side and down and FIRE on the exhaust. OMG. Grab my little extinguisher and put it out. No more driving Vette today. The guys in the store are keeping half an eye on it, and I will check from time to time this morning. The car runs, but poorly. Good news... No fuel line rupture, pressure was solid at 45psi. if the fuel line had blown, I would be on the phone to SF for a total already. Most importantly, I am ok, except for a brief inhale of that dry chemical; from the extinguisher... ick-poo. I want to get it home, hose it off and see what I am dealing with. I have a ride home... so that helps... More news as I learn it... way too much excitement this early in the morning... what I think happened is I picked something up on the freeway, and that something caught fire, and then burned through something that makes the engine run right - but no codes? as I said... I will learn more once I clean it up. I doubt I will learn much until tomorrow. Any other thoughts?
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 15:32 Edited by bogus on 2012/11/11 20:26:03 Edited by bogus on 2012/12/9 0:44:52 Edited by bogus on 2013/1/6 22:36:44
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BillH	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#2
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Good luck. No thoughts until you do your investigation.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 15:56
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#3
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	yea, that's my problem, too... totally blind guesswork.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 16:08
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Ultraman	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#4
2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner! Huskerland 14734 Posts Member since: 2009/9/12 19:16	Do you have any of that header insulation wrap? I have heard that will get to the point it will burn...
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 16:37
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pianoguy	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#5
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Hope it's nothing serious, Andy - glad to hear you're OK!
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 16:44
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#6
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	Quote: Ultraman wrote: Do you have any of that header insulation wrap? I have heard that will get to the point it will burn... no headers, stock exhaust up there... if anything was burning, it was the heat wrap on the motor mounts... but I couldn't tell. The fire looked like it was at the down pipe near the O2 sensor.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 16:46
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TommyT-Bone	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#7
Chair-man of the bored Homestead USA 33760 Posts Member since: 2007/12/10 0:00	Glad you're OK. I'm sure you will tell us your findings soon enough. You had nothing planned for this weekend anyway. Did you?
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 17:30

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rklessdriver	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#8
Senior Guru Woodbridge, VA 1318 Posts Member since: 2008/1/4 0:00	Dang man, that is crazy... Only thing flammable down there is the fuel filter, which if it's holding pressure is fine. You also got the starter and a small wiring harness for it.... not really fire ball material thou... 6spd or auto??? Auto has the tranny cooler lines right thru there.... Will
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 18:43
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BrianCunningham	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#9
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Sorry to hear Cars are easier to fix than people. check the PS hoses, they are notorious for leaking.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 18:47
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#10
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	Good point on the PS hoses. however, I replaced them all on the engine when I did the big service job 3 years ago. I didn't see any sign of a major steering leak/failure. It did restart for the tow home... and it restarted to get down the drive. It now has a death rattle. Sounds horrid. I wish I could get the EngineDoctor over to hear it.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 19:06
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1Fast04Vert	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#11
Elite Guru The hills of N. Georgia 2424 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Quote: bogus wrote: Good point on the PS hoses. however, I replaced them all on the engine when I did the big service job 3 years ago. I didn't see any sign of a major steering leak/failure. It did restart for the tow home... and it restarted to get down the drive. It now has a death rattle. Sounds horrid. I wish I could get the EngineDoctor over to hear it. Knowing that I would bet it is a clogged cat. Easy to find out.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 19:23
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#12
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	good low mileage cat... just went on. still fire... and it's a manual, so no lines.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 19:57
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Matatk	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#13
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22803 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Oil puked out of dipstick tube? Glad you are ok!
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 21:06
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#14
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	Glad you are okay Andy ! Suks especially in 100 degree weather !! Cal me if u need me
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 21:13

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#15
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I may! I was able to start it to get it out of the parking spot, but no power to get up on the rollback. Off the rollback and into the drive, it started again (actually, started right up!). But in both cases, it had a real live death rattle, had no power and smelled of raw fuel. Also, no leaks - of any kind. Tonight, I am going to pull the right valve cover and see what I can find. I have been chasing a strange sound that sorta sounded like an exhaust manifold leak... that odd little piffing sound under load, but that's it. It's that sound, but amplified. I am thinking it's dropped a valve.
	Posted on: 2012/9/14 21:38
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1Fast04Vert	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#16
Elite Guru The hills of N. Georgia 2424 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Quote: bogus wrote: good low mileage cat... just went on. still fire... and it's a manual, so no lines. I would still bet on a clogged cat. How would a dropped valve cause a fire?
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 2:15
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#17
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I am not sure... but I smell raw fuel. The fire seems to be the right motor mount heat wrap. I have had collector leaks before, but never lost power like this. To review the steps: Got on 91 freeway. Merge on, get up to speed. Loose power, get backfire, sputter. Recovers for a few seconds. Loose power, get backfire, sputter. Notice red flakes floating out from under car. WTF? Park at work, check around, pop hood, find fire down near collector/downpipe. Put out same. Restart for tow, restart after tow, restarted again just now to diagnose... still backfire and sputter, no revs, sounds much like a diesel. No sign of blow by at collector (expecting to see chem powder fly around. NO CODES on the ECM ( a few stray codes on the CCM and ECBM). Removed right valve cover, no signs of problems. Will dig deeper tomorrow.
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 3:14
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#18
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	Quote: 1Fast04Vert wrote: Quote: bogus wrote: good low mileage cat... just went on. still fire... and it's a manual, so no lines. I would still bet on a clogged cat. How would a dropped valve cause a fire? I agree ! your fire may be the cat, as far as engine could be your valve to piston timing,(failed timing set) guess work !
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 3:44

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rj92c4	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#19
Guru Newb Los angeles /south bay 19 Posts Member since: 2010/5/16 21:17	The used/new Catalytic Converter at any time in it`s life had it been dropped or hit?. The platinum coated material inside the Converter is very prone to cracking when dropped or hit and can become dislodge over time. This is what may have happened, the Converter becomes restricted,not completely clogged but just restricted and back presser builds up all the way to the collator,which is the part right next to you know what. Just a thought. RJ
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 5:52

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#20
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	the cats came off of my wifes 87 project... no issue there. I don't think the cat has any bearing here. I am leaning heavily toward either a simple exhaust leak, or a complex internal failure. I will know more tomorrow... until then, it's all guess work.
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 6:26
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NelsonV	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#21
Senior Guru Sunny Southern CA 245 Posts Member since: 2008/3/6 18:44	Damn sorry to hear! Hope it's not long, drawn-out, expensive fix.
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 6:39
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#22
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	If it is, I will be asking the Nelson and Virgil Loan-a-car LLC for a set of wheels...
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 6:58
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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NelsonV	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#23
Senior Guru Sunny Southern CA 245 Posts Member since: 2008/3/6 18:44	Quote: bogus wrote: If it is, I will be asking the Nelson and Virgil Loan-a-car LLC for a set of wheels... Something can very likely be arranged. I'm planning to be a two-car-having-mofo again in a couple days.
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 7:04

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#24
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	When the collective is referred to as a "fleet", I figured my odds were pretty good. Thanks!
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 7:09
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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ghoffman	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#25
Senior Guru 258 Posts Member since: 2008/1/25 0:00	I am glad you are OK! On my C4, a power steering hose blew and I had a fire. Thankfully, I have a halon fire extinguisher on board (no clean up like dry chemical).
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 12:55

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#26
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	Thanks!!! Me too! I am going to approach this simple... check the exhaust. Make sure that there isn't a stupid leak at the collector. My only concern? The way it quit... I think something broke inside.
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 14:44
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#27
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I will be honest, gang... I am a total wuss ass wimp... It's hot as hell outside today and I don't want to turn into a lobster. I am going to head out later, after the sun passes, and then do some more diags.
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 21:28
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#28
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	Aww come on Andy , I'm workin too, get on it !
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 21:33

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#29
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	dude... you have seen me... I am a ghost... a whiter shade of pale... All I need is a third degree sunburn... Even with SPF 30.
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 21:48
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#30
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	Haha, guess ur right Andy ! Great song btw........
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 22:44
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#31
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	This covers it. Attach file: 70_4f3da7c6b4647.jpg (25.70 KB)
	Posted on: 2012/9/15 22:46

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#32
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	yes. However... I did go out and clean off the crap from the extinguisher. I removed the coils and plug wires on the right side, plus the fuel rail. So far, nothing out of place. All the wires were tight and snapped in. Nothing appeared out of place with the injectors, either. Good fuel pressure, had to bleed it off. No signs of fuel getting past the FPR, either. Tomorrow, the exhaust will come off.
	Posted on: 2012/9/16 0:34
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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NelsonV	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#33
Senior Guru Sunny Southern CA 245 Posts Member since: 2008/3/6 18:44	Quote: bogus wrote: When the collective is referred to as a "fleet", I figured my odds were pretty good. Thanks! So.....? Well, if you want/need, you can come to my office Tuesday and pick up the C5 any time after 1pm. And if it's not detrimental to your work day and you can schedule a long lunch, you can even scope out our car show (11am-1pm). For the sake of your car, hopefully you don't need mine. But I just thought I'd plant a seed so you can plan ahead.
	Posted on: 2012/9/16 16:35

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#34
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I will be fine for the week! T and gang head outta town on Tuesday, so I will have options. I hope to have the C4 back on the road next weekend.
	Posted on: 2012/9/16 17:10
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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NelsonV	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#35
Senior Guru Sunny Southern CA 245 Posts Member since: 2008/3/6 18:44	Quote: bogus wrote: I will be fine for the week! T and gang head outta town on Tuesday, so I will have options. I hope to have the C4 back on the road next weekend. Oh right... N'awlins? Well, you're still welcome to visit our car show.
	Posted on: 2012/9/16 18:34

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#36
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I might be able to sneak over at lunch... what times?
	Posted on: 2012/9/16 19:36
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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NelsonV	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#37
Senior Guru Sunny Southern CA 245 Posts Member since: 2008/3/6 18:44	Quote: NelsonV wrote: ...you can even scope out our car show (11am-1pm).
	Posted on: 2012/9/17 1:30

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#38
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	oopsie... kinds missed that... I didn't do jack on the Vette today. I attended the Palos Verde Concours today. First day in a while where it wasn't 104 degrees. It was a pleasant 84... with a breeze. Still sunny, but nice.
	Posted on: 2012/9/17 4:04
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#39
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	Seems like it my be time for us to build you that engine you've been wanting Andy !
	Posted on: 2012/9/17 19:52

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#40
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I would LOVE to... but we are in the midst of refinancing the house... so my plan is to yank out the LT1 in bastet44's project 87, use that and do an LSx in her car next year... once her's is back on the road, I will do a 383 in mine... but we need to talk. I have ideas...
	Posted on: 2012/9/17 20:37
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#41
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	Hmm. Im all ears ! U got me curious now.....
	Posted on: 2012/9/17 21:49

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NelsonV	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#42
Senior Guru Sunny Southern CA 245 Posts Member since: 2008/3/6 18:44	Quote: bogus wrote: I might be able to sneak over at lunch... what times? Coming down tomorrow? Lemme know so I can escort you in. Me cell phone signal in the office is spotty at best. If you don't have me office number, email works to get a hold of me too!
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 6:20

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teebee	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#43
2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner! Lakin, Kansas 67860 12361 Posts Member since: 2005/9/16 0:00	Not sure how I missed this Andy. This just sucks big time. I hope that you can find the problem and get it fix relatively easy (and cheap).
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 12:10
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#44
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I doubt I can make it... I was doing a test run on my way to LAX and such, and with traffic, I don't see it happening within my lunch hour... damnit...
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 15:16
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#45
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	Quote: teebee wrote: Not sure how I missed this Andy. This just sucks big time. I hope that you can find the problem and get it fix relatively easy (and cheap). Thanks! But I don't think this is a cheap one... it's just good I have a huge stash of spare parts.
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 15:16
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#46
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I think I have a theory... chew on this and lets see if my disassembly proves me right or wrong. I am thinking that the head gasket gave up between cylinders... dumping compression out of one into another. It also explains the raw fuel, and the moment where it kinda fixed itself only to die again - as the piece worked back/forth under pressure. Thoughts?
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 18:11
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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EngineDoctor	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#47
Master Guru La Habra Ca. 791 Posts Member since: 2012/1/6 1:28	Quote: bogus wrote: I think I have a theory... chew on this and lets see if my disassembly proves me right or wrong. I am thinking that the head gasket gave up between cylinders... dumping compression out of one into another. It also explains the raw fuel, and the moment where it kinda fixed itself only to die again - as the piece worked back/forth under pressure. Thoughts? Okay Mr. Mad Scientist.... Theoretically, if the fire ring on the head gasket blew out , you will encounter such a condition, and typically for the fire ring to go south, that may have be caused by detination. I think if the gasket failed that badly that you would be taking on coolant too...jus mho Lets see wat the others think ?
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 19:06

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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#48
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I didn't run long enough... and if it was contained to just the area between, I could see the lack of leakage. I will work on it Thursday thru Sunday. I will know more then.
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 20:27
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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BillH	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#49
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Top Fuel motors blow them out all the time. I think David's got a point on the coolant thing.
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 21:11
	_________________ Every man dies but not every man lives.
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bogus	Re: FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!	#50
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I don't disagree... but I have seen them blow like that and not leak immediately.
	Posted on: 2012/9/18 21:39
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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