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| bogus | Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Well... kinda... sputters for 2 or three seconds and quits.
Back story: read FIRE FIRE FIRE! Short version: Dropping 1996 LT1 in my 1992. keeping engine controller and such 1992. When I go to fire it up, cranks, catches, dies. I am using LTCC - replaced high voltage with 8 LS3 coils. The 96 uses that pin drive to run the opti. My memory tells me that can be installed out of phase, right? Wrong? The early Opti has a spline drive with a gap. I had installed MSD wires, but have since gone back to my Taylors, that I know are good. The ground was suspect, it is now on the front of the ending No codes. I am going to check all the wires near the battery tomoorrow night... maybe a circiut isn't be powered... fuel pressure is 40psi. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/8 7:58
Edited by bogus on 2013/1/20 21:47:08 |
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| vetteoz | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
My memory tells me that can be installed out of phase, right? Maybe http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576193433-post9.html http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576193490-post10.html No start diagnostics http://www.mainstreamtopics.com/forum ... -lt1-no-start-diagnostic/ |
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Posted on: 2013/1/8 11:44
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Yes, the Gen II opti can be installed out of time. I know since I made that mistake myself once.
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Posted on: 2013/1/8 14:09
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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that's what I thought... Ok... after I check the other stuff.
A few other things I have checked: the LTCC harnesses, they are even/odd, so the odds are on the left (driver), evens on the right. coil harnesses were marked even/odd last time and are in their original locations, and each plug was numbered and is in its right location. My concern is that either I miss-indexed the opti or I have a disconnected wire at the power junction box behind the battery. I can check that real easy tonight. I am not sure how easy it will be to pull the opti to check phase. Even without a cap, it might be snug. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/8 16:09
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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looking back... I did the opti on the stand. And I am pretty sure it sat evenly. I am betting that I missed a wire or 2 down by the battery.
Something in the ignition circuit isn't getting power... coils? some sensors? Injectors even, cause I am not smelling raw fuel and I would expect to smell fuel. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/8 23:24
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Do you have any injector noids to check if they're getting fired.
the balancer isn't marked, but you can still check it with a timing light. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/8 23:30
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I don't have noids... but I can make sure that the wiring is right. Seems just as good, really.
I will dbl check the fuses. I am also concerned a fusible link got fried. That would suck. Timing light? good tool, but I am doing most of this solo. I can run DVM checks with the key on to make sure power is getting to the coils. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/9 0:24
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Elite Guru
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Noid lights are on the Autozone free loaner tool list. There are two separate fuses (one for each bank) for the injectors.
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Posted on: 2013/1/9 0:47
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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You can use a timing light solo if the cord is long enough I've done that and just pointed it at the ground while cranking on each cylinder separately.
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Posted on: 2013/1/9 0:58
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I will have to check that out if I can't figure it out normally!
I have diags to test in the manual and confirm some things... I am going outside in a few to test some stuff. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/9 2:55
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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it's cold and dark... but first pass around the battery revealed nothing amiss.
Reading the FSM also confirms that if there had been major power delivery issues, then there would be other things dead... like no gauges...  and the gauges are working. The CCM and ECM are communicating. I want to remove the battery and be sure, but it looks ok. next test will be to remove the LTCC and get codes from it. hopefully, tomorrow night. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/9 5:49
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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the more and more I futz with it, the more I am sure the opti is out of time.
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Posted on: 2013/1/14 16:23
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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Quote:
Just off the top of my head and looking at the 2 positions on the opti drive......if the pin is in the wrong slot, would the motor actually start and run 3 seconds? And I would think it would backfire. Just sayin' |
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Posted on: 2013/1/14 16:48
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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When I put my opti on wrong a timing light showed my right away.
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Posted on: 2013/1/14 17:01
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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that requires finding #1 TDC... and then marking the crank... that's a pain...
I might just as well pull the opti!!! |
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Posted on: 2013/1/14 17:42
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Man I love my HEI distributor.
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Posted on: 2013/1/14 22:56
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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no shit.
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Posted on: 2013/1/14 23:53
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| Aboatguy | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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I like driving my vette more than wrenching on it for wrenchings sake; so if my damper was unmarked I'd find top dead center.
I can think of numerous quick/easy and effective ways to find TDC. pulling valve cover and watching number 1 cylinder rockers and then using blunt object in the no 1 spark plug hole is one method and ensures your on the firing stroke too) finger over spark plug hole until you feel compression and then use the object in the spark plug hole is a quick and dirty method to find TDC on compression stroke, or simply use my piston stop (since compression stroke really doesnt matter IRT to marking the damper) then I'd mark the damper and use my timing light. Any of these methods would show if you had the opti indexed incorrectly, in much less time than pulling the opti and having an opportunity to mis-index the opti. Good luck Andy. You are close to having it running. Mike (USING DAMPER, VICE HARMONIC BALANCER) |
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Posted on: 2013/1/18 16:43
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| corvetteronw | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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This is way out there but here goes.
I had a machine shop turn my trashed 81 Vette's low power 350 into a nice driving powerful 355 engine. I did the aftermarket heads/intake/distributor stuff with it too. When I got it fired up for the first time and got it timed correctly I heard something like a "putt-putt--putt" exhaust sound. Tried everything (this was pre-Forum days) and finally took it to the ASE shop down the road which was run by a bunch of Mopar hot-rodder types. They diagnosed it as a worn cam lobe and told me I had probably adjusted a rocker arm or two incorrectly. Bought a replacement cam and installed it. I pulled the plugs in order to be able to spin the motor over by the crank snout easier and found ----- a friggen spark plug with a totally closed gap. I then remembered that while I was putting the engine back together on the stand that I had dropped a plug onto the garage floor by accident. That's what did it. I regapped all the plugs, buttoned everything up and she ran smooth and strong after that. Any chance that you could have flattened out a couple of the plug electrodes during the install? Good luck - ever think of trading the damn thing in after you get her running? I know it can be tempting. McJack's would be glad to fix you up! http://www.mcjackscorvettes.com/05BLK61k.htm |
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 4:28
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I know Jack... and no, I ain't trading... This will be sweet once done! The new motor only has 61k on it!
I didn't flatten any electrodes - inspected each plug before it went back in. They are new, but they are few years old. But never run. I am rather surprised that your motor wouldn't fire with one dead plug... it should have... odd... Tomorrow, one bolt to go on the water pump and I am at the damned optispark... it is acting like it's off... and since the opti controls timing and fuel, all sorts of things are out of sync, I am sure. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 5:10
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting... it won't start!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Ok... quick update...
I finally took a minute and checked the original engine. It IS original to the car. The VIN is stamped on the opposite corner of the engine that the engine number is stamped. Meaning, left rear of the head. The VIN matches my car. So... 185k miles is real. Also, got the opti off. As I removed the three bolts, the first one was showing tension. If the pin was right, I would expect there to be no tension at all... flush fit, no gaps, no tension, nada. I can't prove the pin was right or wrong, can't see down there, but this will be done right when I am finished! I should know in about 15 minutes. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 21:04
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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It was the damned opti!!!! I finally got it to sit flush and it fired RIGHT UP!!! Sure... a little smokey... a lot noisy and a bit ignorant... but RUNNING!!! There is no exhaust and no waterpump/belt on right now, so all sorts of things were showing warnings... low voltage, no water temp... things like that. But... it's running! I should be done before sunset. Off to get a couple of parts and then back to reassemble.
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 21:48
Edited by bogus on 2013/1/20 22:35:06 Edited by bogus on 2013/1/20 22:35:23 |
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| j3studio | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Quote: bogus wrote: It was the damned opti!!!! I finally got it to sit flush and it fired RIGHT UP!!!
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 22:24
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| donhall | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Senior Guru
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 We can only sense your gratification, but we can appreciate your due diligence. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 22:35
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Senior Guru
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told ya
seriously, glad you got it running again  |
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 23:17
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| pianoguy | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Guru Emeritus
 
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Yahooooo!
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 23:37
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| Matatk | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Webmaster
 
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Congrats, Andy.
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Posted on: 2013/1/20 23:52
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Aboatguy | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Congrats
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 0:32
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| LD85 | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Master Guru
 
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Awesome, your hard work is going to shame me into stripping the front of my engine tomorrow in single digit weather thank you
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 0:45
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2005/Z51 |
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| EngineDoctor | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Master Guru
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Well done Andy !!
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 1:14
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| corvetteronw | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Congratulations! The neighbors will not believe their eyes when they see you motoring off to Winchell's Donuts!
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 1:18
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Randy's, Ron... Randy's Donuts...
I had a scare... it wouldn't refire... found out it REQUIRES the temp sensor to be plugged in or it won't fire. fixed that and all was grand. A tip... when installing a gen 2 opti, use a paint pen to mark the side of the drive spindle on the opti and the drive pin on the cam. This makes alignment seriously easy!!! |
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 3:44
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| donhall | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Quote:
............ STICKY ......... |
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 4:33
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| joeld | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Guru
 
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Good news! Congrats
I never doubted for a moment. Joel |
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 4:48
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1989 Coupe,L98 automatic |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote: donhall wrote: Quote: I know... |
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 4:59
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Ultraman | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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Atta boy Andy....let the fun begin.....
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 13:57
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2010 Grand Sport Coupe Gone but not forgotten... Vote DeSantis in 2024.... Make the IRS go away... |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Tonight, button it all up... hang the exhaust, tidy up the various bits of plumbing, get the PS pulley back on, and then the drive belt...
screw on all the inner fenders and then finally, bolt in the battery (after giving it a quick recharge) and replace the oil pressure sensor. Finally, outer gill panels and that's that. Maybe even a quick wash if I have the courage. Oh, gotta do the new wipers and the registration sticker! |
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 17:03
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| teebee | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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I had my issues with opti's too. They can be very frustrating....especially if you think that it can't be the problem.
Glad you got it, Andy. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 17:52
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2007 Atomic Orange 3LT coupe. Borla Exhaust One of Americas' proud Deplorable 
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Well... as I progressed through the easy check downs, it had to be the opti. And the way it was behaving...
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Posted on: 2013/1/21 18:05
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Got the exhaust hung and most of the stuff under the hood wrapped up.
Still need to get it running long enough to get up to op temp and allow the t-stat to kick in!! It got late and I accidently pissed off my neighbour. I have a feeling that the 1996 LT1 knock sensors don't like being attached to a manual transmission... the thunking of the flywheel really upsets the apple cart! I am getting a code 43, Electronic spark control and 44, left O2 lean. I don't hear any exhaust leaks, I wonder if the O2 is loose? otherwise, it is very smooth and sounds pretty awesome with the right cat gutted!!! |
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Posted on: 2013/1/22 6:12
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Elite Guru
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Pretty sure the 96 knock sensors are not compatible with earlier year ECM/PCMs. I am positive the LT4 sensors are one year only, not sure about LT1 sensors.
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Posted on: 2013/1/22 12:25
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2004 Vert. 475hp. Built by Vengeance Racing |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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it would make sense... the light came on real quick!!
I am still shocked as to how much noise there is with the right cat gutted. It sounds like a 383 with a massive cam. All cackling and stuff. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/22 16:39
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Elite Guru
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Just a question - with the right cat gutted and the left side intact wouldn't that cause problems? Wouldn't the 02 sensors read an imbalance?
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Posted on: 2013/1/22 16:47
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2004 Vert. 475hp. Built by Vengeance Racing |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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on the 92, the o2s are only upstream... now... the left read lean... not the right, which is gutted. I would be willing to accept that, because of the different velocity that the air is moving at. But only if it read lean on the right!
I might have a small vacuum leak somewhere, the idle took its own sweet time to settle in. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/22 17:56
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Andy-
Just something to think about but - Are you using the ICM off the 92 engine or the ICM off the 96 engine? I know the ICM's have diffent PN's, so using the 96 ICM with the 92 computer may cause the 43 code. On another note - The 95-97 style pin drive optisparks can be installed crooked and doing so can break the dowel pin in the camshaft... Found this out with an engine I built and the owner installed the accy stuff on... wouldn't keep a stable ignition signal past 5500rpm.... turns out the dowel pin in the cam was broken just aft of the cam gear.... opti was just being phased in time by the cam bolts. Glad to see you have it running. Will |
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Posted on: 2013/1/22 19:04
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I am not using an ICM at all - LTCC bypasses that thing.
As for the pin, I think its ok... it didn't appear or feel damaged when I was in there fixing on it. I am betting money it's the knock sensors causing me issue right now and I will address them after I get the car running right. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/22 19:07
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The knock sensors are swapped and the car is about 99% back together. Enough to drive to work tomorrow.
I am a little edged about the coolant situation, but I have a nice short drive down to the main road where I can top off. Perhaps it will burp before I even leave for work. I did start it tonite and the immediate code was gone. It also ran very smoothly. Also replaced the plug wires with new MSD wires that I made. |
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Posted on: 2013/1/23 6:02
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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I have no experience with them, but read that the LT4 is less sensitive because GM put in roller rockers, etc, and it seems to be a common upgrade when changing to noisier components: http://www.ls1.com/forums/f37/lt1-lt4-knock-sensor-129128/ |
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Posted on: 2013/1/23 12:40
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Aboatguy | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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I believe the LT4 has a different knock sensor module that is less sensitive. Concur with the 96 knock sensor incompatablity with OBDI PCMs Mike |
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Posted on: 2013/1/23 15:26
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| bogus | Re: Troubleshooting...IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Matt - you are right.
Today... first drive... last night when I did the knock sensor swap, the block was all but dry of coolant... I never got to "burp" the system... What I think happened was when I shut down, the coolant continued to heat for a bit, opened the stat, it all expanded out in the radiator and filled it! I filled the overflow, and engine temp never got about 200 on my drive in. the gutted cat sucks on the road! It really kills low end torque!!! The first drive was uneventful. Started out with a bit of a miss, but it cleared as I drove... more then likely some gick on a plug and it burned off. Have a high idle condition, there must be a vacuum leak somewhere. Otherwise, it stunk to high-heavens, but as I drove, it got less and less ignorant. I will top off with more coolant at lunch and again when I leave tonight. I call this a success, so far! |
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Posted on: 2013/1/23 16:13
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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