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| Vette91 | 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Just wanna share some pics of my wifes '85 which we started to refurbish a little. Project started almost 6 years ago and was discontinued for about 5 years ...
August 2008 - nice looking standing 20 ft away  Only driven by gravity ... hoping brakes will work ;-)  Day 2 - got the engine out ...  5 years later --> Yeaaaaah! Looking almost the same but got the hood off. A real milestone, of course ;-) OK, moved together, got married and so on ... had to prioritize the stuff :-)  WTF ...  Got the front axle out in order to get a lot of parts zinc-plated and powder-coated. Installed new ball-joints and polybushings. As the front was lifted already, we decided to get rid of some rust ... I like tools driven by compressed air :-)   20 minutes later ...  another 20 minutes later ...  OEM-paint turned out as gold metallic  Didn't wanna clean the dirty and rusty cross member, so we got it zinc-plated together with 75 other parts. Got them back today black powder coated. Will post pics tomorrow ...      Sold the engine, btw. The car will get a '91 engine, '91 axles and ABS-stuff. Overall condition turned out as very descent. In addition, a previous owner hit some stuff damaging almost the entire driver's side (the frame is OK), so we had to get some new parts ... As a madman, I bought a huge ammount of parts offered near the place where I live. Had to buy all or nothing. Needed the space of three trailers and two huge rear trunks ...   Will post pics of reassembling the front axle ... |
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Posted on: 2014/4/4 21:31
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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The key is getting started. Good luck with the project and keep moving forward, one piece at a time. |
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Posted on: 2014/4/4 21:55
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| pianoguy | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Looks like a helluva project - looking forward to seeing it progress!
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Posted on: 2014/4/4 22:01
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Nice work
The trick to a long term project is to keep chugging away at it |
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Posted on: 2014/4/4 22:11
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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excellent!!! I love your house, very cute! Also have SkyTV... smart move.
 Excellent project! You are inspiring me to get moving on my wife's 87!!! |
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Posted on: 2014/4/4 22:22
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Ultraman | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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Gonna be nice....I like how those plated parts look....keep us updated.....
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Posted on: 2014/4/4 22:26
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2010 Grand Sport Coupe Gone but not forgotten... Vote DeSantis in 2024.... Make the IRS go away... |
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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how hard is it to get R12 freon in Germany?
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Posted on: 2014/4/4 23:35
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Nice project! How much is Axel helping you out?
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Posted on: 2014/4/5 1:14
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Quote:
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Posted on: 2014/4/5 2:45
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Bogus, that is our neigbourgs house but we have sky-tv, too. I took the last pic standing right at the house looking at the garage. At the second pic, the house are located half the way down at the left. Have another nice pic viewing down the street:
 That is where we and my mom are living. I love all-wheel-drive. Did not have to get rid of the snow since we have that black AWD daily driver :-)  You can't get any R12 in Germany but there are several surrogates which do work. R413a and R437a should be fine without changing the oil. Matak, Axel is not part of the project. It's a project of me, my wife and some local friends. Have to get rid of a trailer full of scrap metal. Will post more pics of the car later ... |
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Posted on: 2014/4/5 7:59
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Where in Germany are you?
I was in DE for work back in 2009... Aschaffenburg, near Frankfurt au Main. It was December and tho it didn't snow, it was raw and chilly and the days were short. It was very festive. The town was all decked out for Christmas, so the Christmas carnival was all in full swing, decorations everywhere. Really neat. |
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Posted on: 2014/4/5 15:02
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| hcbph | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Great project, anxious to see how it comes out. I especially like your workpit. Put one in at my first house when I had the garage built. I was easily able to do a lot of things on the vehicles, unfortunately I had to sell the place due to a change in employment. That's the one thing I really miss.
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Posted on: 2014/4/5 17:27
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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I'm located near Osnabrück: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osnabr%C3%BCck
Last winter we got not that much snow - pic is from 2012. Btw, if you get the hood hinges zinc plated without disassembling them, they are still movable :-) Striped, plated and coated parts:    Today we realized that the 84-87 front spring is about an inch longer that the 88-96. As we do a 85/91 hybrid we have to get a new one. Not a problem but takes a few days. So I have time to get these Remflex gaskets at the headers of my '91 ... |
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Posted on: 2014/4/5 17:48
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| Matatk | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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The coated parts turned out very nice.
I read once that you can trim the end pads of the spring to make it fit. I cannot verify that. |
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Posted on: 2014/4/5 22:53
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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That was my first idea but trimming just the rubber would not give enough space. Cutting my work but I don't linke cutting a spring. As is is a safety part we better spend some money that hittig a tree or so ...
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Posted on: 2014/4/6 6:48
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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coming along nicely!!!
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Posted on: 2014/4/6 17:59
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| rklessdriver | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Why are you converting the car to later model wider suspension?
Just to get the ABS or what? Good luck with it. All the coated stuff looks great. Will |
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Posted on: 2014/4/7 14:49
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Yes to get ABS (and to use a racelogic traction control later which needs ABS) and because I had all parts available out of my ex '91 - except of the front spring. In addition it is hard to get the 255/50 R16 tires. So we got a set of '91 wheels which will get 275/40 R17 all 4 corners ...
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Posted on: 2014/4/7 19:30
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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We got a '91 spring but did not consider that the late springs are 1/2" wider. So we need the retainers made of aluminium, not of steel.
Will take a few days to get these and as we are on vacation some time around Easter, I have some time to share some thoughts why you definitely need a late spring if you are converting the early C4 to later model wider suspension and should not shorten the early spring ... Some facts: - the front spring rate of '84-87 L98 C4 is 54 to 65 N/mm (except Z51) - the front spring rate of '88-91 L98 C4 is 93 N/mm (except Z51) - '88-91 spring is shorter - '88-91 suspension is wider - according to Hooke's law: F = -k * x (or F = k * |x|) where F [N] is the resulting force vector k [N/mm] is the spring rate, a constant depending on material and construction. Negative because the force the spring exerts is in the opposite direction from its displacement. x [mm] is the displacement vector. So what happens if you shorten the spring? It will get stiffer because of the lever rule. In principle, that is what we need and why the '88-91 spring is manufactured shorter. But cutting 1/2" would not be enough. That is why the geometry of the '88-91 spring is different - it is a little bit wider and formed in a slightly different curve. According to the the lever rule, another thing does happen: Due to the wider suspension (more precisely the position of the hub of the wheel relating to the retainer of the spring), the lever acting on the spring does extend. That is the important stuff! If you keep a spring with a rate of 54 N/mm instead of using a 93 N/mm, it will compress way more than it should. Shorten the 54 N/mm spring can not cover that! So the car would get lowered by approx. 40% without a lowering kit. In addition due to the soft characteristic of the spring the overall handling of the car would fall off in quality. Beside a poor handling, due to the increased dynamic compression all the time the wear of the tires could increase. So getting the proper spring can avoid a lot of problems ... |
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Posted on: 2014/4/21 11:14
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Looks like someone has been doing their homework. |
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Posted on: 2014/4/21 12:43
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
I have a great book on suspension design... I read it some 15 years ago, but parts of it are flooding back. What you say rings true... Since you are not doing an LSx conversion, you don't need to take weight into consideration. |
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Posted on: 2014/4/21 13:52
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Update ...
German engineering ;-)  Installed steering rack, front spring and other suspension parts. The upper a-arms are a '85-'90-hybrid because of the different distance of the bolts connecting to the crossmember. All bushings are black poly, ball joints are Moog.  We did some work on the rear axle but did not take pics. We installed '91 parts with new bushings, '93 brake, aluminium drive shafts. Yesterday I stripped the paint of some C5 front calipers using an air tool with a wire brush on. Today we painted them black using 2k Foliatec stuff. C5 adaptor plates are DIY, btw. Got them laser cut out of some high-strength sheet steel and zinc-plated after cutting M14x2 and turing the counterbore.   Will sand the paint off "Corvette" and if I find some time I fab new pistons made of some austenitic Cr-Ni-steel because of the low thermal conductivity compared to aluminum. That will keep some heat away from the brake fluid ... |
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Posted on: 2014/5/18 19:54
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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I must caution you from using poly bushings in the rear suspension.
There is a real problem with the way the rear was designed, that poly is just not going to work. There is an inherent bind back there and the poly won't flex to make things move freely. I have the Banski kit... LOVE IT! Read the attached PDF... it isn't cheap, but it works great! |
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Posted on: 2014/5/18 20:06
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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CE Banski Article Compressed.pdf| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Thanks a lot! Will read that stuff. I have poly bushings at my '91 for many years without problems. So I think it should be OK for the '85, too.
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Posted on: 2014/5/18 20:34
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| Matatk | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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I have poly in the rear with no problems. I agree that the Banski kit is far superior, but don't worry.
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Posted on: 2014/5/18 20:43
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Update ... we decided to install a cooler for the power steering fluid cause we had one. Did fab two brackets made of 3mm Aluminum:
 Installed some parts at the engine bay and fixed the wiring harness front and rear.  Fixed the leaky vapor canister ... charcoal did come out of the hose at the bottom side. As we have several canisters, I did open one:         |
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Posted on: 2014/5/31 16:47
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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a coffee can with fish tank stuff in it...
ranks up there with "blue tek"... who ever thought that cow piss could beat down NoX emissions was seriously thinking outside the box. |
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Posted on: 2014/5/31 22:26
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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I don't have pics of all steps we did until now ...
- installed the fuel-tank venting stuff - installed the ABS-Pump and all the brake lines - got a '95 fuel tank w/ pump for free and installed it - started the fuel line job (AN6 PTFE hose) - got the sawblades painted black Fabed a guide piece to hold the brake lines in place:  Cut a square hole for the ABS-wiring:  Got the pump in place:  '91 sawblades, the paint is in poor condition ...   3 weeks later ...   We won't have time to work on the car within the next 5 weeks because of a mix of vacation and business trip. When we are back I will coat the wheels with some SiO2 stuff and will get the tires on ... |
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Posted on: 2014/6/24 18:55
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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looks awesome!!!
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Posted on: 2014/6/24 19:21
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Nice work!
What is the abs pump from and what will control it? Are you retrofitting from another c4? |
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Posted on: 2014/6/25 12:44
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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We got the brake lines, pump, control-unit, wiring, relais, sensors as a mix off a '86 and '90 C4 ... Most parts several times.
Unfortunately I have only the wiring diagrams of a '91 so not all colors are the same but I guess I can figure out what to do with the eletric stuff ... |
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Posted on: 2014/6/25 18:12
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| Matatk | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Be aware that the abs systems were different in 86 and 90. I don't know the specific differences. If you run into any problems I can photograph and post up info from my 89 manual.
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Posted on: 2014/6/26 2:23
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| -=Jeff=- | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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the 89 ABS wiring or part of will work with the 1990 ABS ECM
I have some wiring comparisons somewhere, not sure I have all the ABS differences though |
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Posted on: 2014/7/21 19:25
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-=Jeff=- 1990 Corvette ZR-1 #1051 |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Update ... did not take pics until today. Changed the camshaft, got engine/tranny/drive train in, built an airpump-eliminator, installed coolers, additional cooler for engineoil and transmissionoil, did some small work on electrical and mechanical stuff ...
  ... needed to get a new accelerator cable and could not find one, so I made one of material available by the meter and soldered a DIY piece of brass to it ...   |
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Posted on: 2014/11/29 19:04
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| Matatk | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Nice work!
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Posted on: 2014/11/30 2:32
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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look'n great!!!!!
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Posted on: 2014/11/30 16:11
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Frank | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Good luck! Sounds like you're doing it right. Won't take too long and doesn't cost very much....
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Posted on: 2014/12/22 19:16
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| LD85 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Gotta love the 85, holds a special place in my heart :-)
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Posted on: 2014/12/23 3:44
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Taking the time to do it right
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Posted on: 2014/12/23 13:06
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| hcbph | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Quote:
Just noticed the reference to the 86 ABS. If you need FSM diagram out of it, I have one plus obviously the car. Be advised that if you run into issues with the pump I've not found anyone that rebuilds them any more. Paul |
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Posted on: 2014/12/30 17:01
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Thanks to all the offer to help!
I think I am OK with the ABS stuff. Took me a day to get through the wiring but I have found all parts we need at a spare harness. Decided to go for an ECM-swap to 1227730. I'm in contact with Brian Harris who has a very good rep on burning chips afaik and he does recommend that swap. Of course the car will get some fine-tuning at a local dyno if needed. To keep that easy we will swap ECM to get rid of BAUD 160 and that '85 MAF which was not a good sensor Brian said. So we are in search of a V8 TPI memcal which does fit the 1227730 ... |
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Posted on: 2015/1/13 19:47
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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A few days ago I disassembled the steering column. Something strange made the steering wheel very shaky. I thought of the pivot-pins because they are common to get some clearance during the years ...
The pins were fine so I had to dig a little deeper. Could not get them out so I used a hot-air gun which destoyed the plastic shroud. Fortunately a '87 column was laying around so I got that part off it. It was designed a little different but I was able gettig it to fit the '85 column. The reason of being shaky were all 4 screws holding the cast part in place. They were quite simply loose. I added some thread-sealant to them, so it should not happen again. Unfortunately you have to disassemble the whole thing to get there ... not very repair-friendly. Now the column is rock-solid, but we have to get a new horn contact retainer which broke to pieces. Have to get some small parts missing and toss the custom steering wheel ...  WTF ... why are small pieces of glass inside of the column?!?  These turned loose:  Comparison of '87 (left) and '85 (right) steering column "jacket":  Now we are in discussion if we should get the paint-job done black or gold-metallic ... |
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Posted on: 2015/2/27 16:56
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Check Moates.net for ECM info, I think he sells some upgrade options as well, at least he did before. I think I have a 730 ecm and chip, that I will never get around to installing. Interested? How did the looseness feel in the wheel? I think mine bounces around too much over rough roads... but the looseness feels like it's further down, like the entire column moves, rather than just the swiveling part. |
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Posted on: 2015/2/27 20:18
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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PM sent ...
As for the looseness forget about normal feeling. That thing was catastrophic - moved approx. 1/8" in each direction. I have no idea how that car passed the last inspection. The column is bolt to the car at four points. There are two nutz at the floor and two screws in the middle (1st picture). If these are not tightened the column can move around. If just the steering wheel is moving, in my opinion it could be that: - the pivot pins got some clearance (you get get a lager diameter to fix that) - there is some axial clearance at the ball bearings (no radial movement should occur) - the four screws holding the cast part (last picture) are not tightened. This will make the steering wheel move but not the column itself Did see at your profile that you are local to San Diego. I'm there from 15th to 17th of March. If you like and have time we can meet and I can take a look at your column. Unfortunately I won't have time to fix anything cause I have to stay at some conference during the day ... |
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Posted on: 2015/2/28 10:47
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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I am confused about a spring. Because of the custom steering wheel we don't have all parts.
I took a look at the Shop Manuals of 1985 and 1988 which was a little confusing. The '88 manual does show a spring and a retainer which are not shown by the '85 manual. Does anyone know if I need this spring/retainer for the '85 and what their function is?  |
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Posted on: 2015/3/1 10:58
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| Matatk | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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The spring and retainer are for the telescoping portion of the column, so yes you need them.
Here's an example from when I did the 79. http://www.corvetteforum.guru/modules ... ct&topic_id=9811&forum=32 |
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Posted on: 2015/3/1 11:54
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Thanks for info and pictures! So this one off ebay should be what we need ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-1989-Cor ... h=item566d8541a0&vxp=mtr#
If I understand right, it does push the steering wheel if the lever is released and will provide electrical contact to the horn contact plate. At the steering wheel, the spring will be hold in position at red and will contact the horn contact plate at green, right?  |
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Posted on: 2015/3/1 13:20
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Next question ...
We will have to get the OEM stereo and speakers. I found two speakers at the dashboard which do look OEM. The two rear speakers were replaced by custom stuff. The doors appear to be cut for getting custom speakers in. So how much speakers should be at a '85 C4?  |
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Posted on: 2015/3/1 20:46
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| Vette91 | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Do you guys think this radio would be ok if converted to non-bose speakers? That would make things easier and way cheaper than getting all the Bose stuff ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-PERFECT- ... h=item4d2e64695b&vxp=mtr# |
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Posted on: 2015/3/1 21:54
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| bogus | Re: 1985 C4 - almost frame off | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I would pass...
If you are willing to spend, get modern tech... This is what I suggest: This head unit, I have the prior version and am VERY impressed - oh, as long as it works in Europe! http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KDCX7 ... lon-KDC-X798.html?tp=5684 Speakers, for the front stage, check out these Focal sets... I recommend the 6" midbass speakers. They will carry more richness than the 5" midbass will. http://www.crutchfield.com/g_410/Comp ... ##&nvpair=FFBrand%7CFocal For the rear... Get a pair of these 8" subs: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1368W3V3 ... Audio-8W3v3-4.html?tp=111 They do fit in the rear speaker enclosures!!! Now, power... for the front: This looks cool. They don't list the Focal I had before, but this looks like a nice option, not very large, either... http://www.crutchfield.com/p_091FD235 ... al-FD-2-350.html?tp=35757 For the subs, I have this amp, and it is the real deal. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130GMD86 ... er-GM-D8601.html?tp=35834 A huge bargain price wise, but it kicks ass for power and quality. It's more than you are suggesting, but the end result will sound SO MUCH BETTER. |
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Posted on: 2015/3/1 22:27
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