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bogus Guess whose got a C3?
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
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Me!

Well... I don't own it. I am recommissioning it for sale.

The owners don't know jack.

Car:
* 1972 Coupe
* War Bonnet Yellow, black fabric interior
* Automatic, PS, PB, A/C, AM/FM
* Base 350
* 49k original miles, single family ownership

I have a few preliminary questions:

1. When did side mount batteries come into play?
2. Where is the decal/plate that lists options?
3. It has bobo tires... the OEM is like a 205/75/15, what is a good option on that rim?

Known problems:

* Brakes are junk... no fluid in master, Did refill it, but don't expect much.

* Fuel has been in there for a long time, but it still smells like and looks like gas. Shocking. I am going to clean out the carbs float bowls, just to be sure. Also ad some fuel treatment to wake up the stuff. I am thinking Techron by Chevron.

* Battery is dead... charging!

* There is mold on the seat covers... need to figure out how to clean that off. I am going to rent a Rug Doctor to do the carpets, more than likely will do the seats the same way.

Upsides:

* The chassis and body metals look GREAT. No signs of rust on the frame that I can see.

In General:

It's a pretty original looking 40+ year old car. The paint is all there, but it is faded. The car has either been garage kept or covered. This car is a near NCRS survivor. Whomever buys it will have a car that is 95% there, easy.

Thanks!!
Posted on: 2014/9/14 21:20
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TommyT-Bone Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Cool. You can work on that one while you wait for parts for yours. ............... Ooooohhhhhhh!
Posted on: 2014/9/14 21:24
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TommyT-Bone Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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By the way ...... How's the progress on T's?


................ Oooooohhhhhhh!




I'm just full of it today ........
Posted on: 2014/9/14 21:25
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
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Where is the bitch slap smiley?

Posted on: 2014/9/14 21:30
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j3studio Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Talking to some folks ...

Posted on: 2014/9/14 22:49
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Ultraman Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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71 or 72 on the side mount battery I'm thinking Andy.

If you don't have the original window sticker or the build sheet that is on the top of the fuel tank I believe you are out of luck on the options being listed.

F70 X 15's were the stock tires and I don't know how that translates into the new tire codes....

I don't get the Black cloth seats....my info says vinyl or leather only....
Posted on: 2014/9/14 22:59
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I will be getting the original sticker, I hope, this week.

The more documentation, the better we are.

You are right, it is some kind of woven vinyl. Should make cleaning much easier.

Thanks so far!!!
Posted on: 2014/9/15 4:35
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WarBonnet Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

j3studio wrote:

Talking to some folks ...



Like me!

Sounds like a cool car! Low milage one owner, nice!

I'll take shot at your questions.
1. Side posts batteries began prior to 71, 68 and 69 up to vin. 22,081 have top posts.

2. Decal plate on these cars more so called Trim tag can be found on the drivers door jamb. Silver plate riveted to the jamb. This will give you the build date exterior color and interior color/and fabric. Another source is the POP, another silver credit card object, that lists the codes for the transmission, rear differential,etc. This can be found on the warranty booklet, if you're lucky enough to find it! Of course the window sticker, and build sheet mentioned earlier.

3. Tires looks like this one has been answered. F 70-15

4. One you didn't ask but I'll tell ya! lol
Starting in 72 the engine size was indicated in the vin. number. It's the fifth digit.
Base motor should read "K" , LT-1 reads "L" Big block 454 reads "W".

Best regards,

WB
Posted on: 2014/9/15 14:39
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Matatk Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:

Known problems:

* Brakes are junk... no fluid in master, Did refill it, but don't expect much.



Thanks!!


The lip seals on those vintage calipers (not sure when it changed to o-rings) are known to leak after sitting. I bet all four calipers need a rebuild.
Posted on: 2014/9/15 14:45
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WarBonnet Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Couple more things

Try Precision Brakes in Florida, he is THE MAN for all your brake issues! These should have the O rings? Go stainless. If they are the original calipers they are dated to the car.

Dump the fuel completely, why risk the damage?

The mold should clean up easily. Simple green...

WB
Posted on: 2014/9/15 14:53
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Ultraman Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Good stuff WB....
Posted on: 2014/9/15 15:40
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
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Quote:

WarBonnet wrote:
Quote:

j3studio wrote:

Talking to some folks ...



Like me!

Sounds like a cool car! Low milage one owner, nice!

I'll take shot at your questions.
1. Side posts batteries began prior to 71, 68 and 69 up to vin. 22,081 have top posts.

2. Decal plate on these cars more so called Trim tag can be found on the drivers door jamb. Silver plate riveted to the jamb. This will give you the build date exterior color and interior color/and fabric. Another source is the POP, another silver credit card object, that lists the codes for the transmission, rear differential,etc. This can be found on the warranty booklet, if you're lucky enough to find it! Of course the window sticker, and build sheet mentioned earlier.

3. Tires looks like this one has been answered. F 70-15

4. One you didn't ask but I'll tell ya! lol
Starting in 72 the engine size was indicated in the vin. number. It's the fifth digit.
Base motor should read "K" , LT-1 reads "L" Big block 454 reads "W".

Best regards,

WB


1. I didn't realize side posts have been around that long.

2. Found the trim plate! Perfect condition, too! Hope the rest comes... The Original Owner was very detail oriented about keeping paperwork.

3. Yea... It has some Cornell all seasons on it... I am scared...

4. I found the engine code, thanks to the black book, but thanks again!

Posted on: 2014/9/15 19:05
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

WarBonnet wrote:
Couple more things

Try Precision Brakes in Florida, he is THE MAN for all your brake issues! These should have the O rings? Go stainless. If they are the original calipers they are dated to the car.

Dump the fuel completely, why risk the damage?

The mold should clean up easily. Simple green...

WB


I am going to keep these ORIGINAL brakes. I know they are old, but they are right and I am marketing this as NCRS survivor friendly.

Otherwise, I agree with your assessment 100%.

There isn't much fuel, 1/3rd of a tank, and dealing with disposal here in CA is a pain, so I will do this: Add the Techron, then fill it with good premium. Happy balance... 15 gallons of good fuel should go a long way, vs trying to make sense with disposal. I have enough jerry cans to do this.

And once I determined the seats were vinyl, I was going to hit with simple green and STP Son of a Gun and that was that.

Next question, what is the right waxing process for this vintage paint? I know it will never shine like modern, but do I want to take the dull off.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on: 2014/9/15 19:09
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

Matatk wrote:
Quote:

bogus wrote:

Known problems:

* Brakes are junk... no fluid in master, Did refill it, but don't expect much.



Thanks!!


The lip seals on those vintage calipers (not sure when it changed to o-rings) are known to leak after sitting. I bet all four calipers need a rebuild.


I agree... the brakes were junk. I suspect that's where most of my labour will be expended.

Posted on: 2014/9/15 19:14
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WarBonnet Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

Ultraman wrote:
Good stuff WB....


My pleasure!

WB
Posted on: 2014/9/15 21:13
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WarBonnet Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:
Quote:

WarBonnet wrote:
Quote:

j3studio wrote:

Talking to some folks ...



Like me!

Sounds like a cool car! Low milage one owner, nice!

I'll take shot at your questions.
1. Side posts batteries began prior to 71, 68 and 69 up to vin. 22,081 have top posts.

2. Decal plate on these cars more so called Trim tag can be found on the drivers door jamb. Silver plate riveted to the jamb. This will give you the build date exterior color and interior color/and fabric. Another source is the POP, another silver credit card object, that lists the codes for the transmission, rear differential,etc. This can be found on the warranty booklet, if you're lucky enough to find it! Of course the window sticker, and build sheet mentioned earlier.

3. Tires looks like this one has been answered. F 70-15

4. One you didn't ask but I'll tell ya! lol
Starting in 72 the engine size was indicated in the vin. number. It's the fifth digit.
Base motor should read "K" , LT-1 reads "L" Big block 454 reads "W".

Best regards,

WB


1. I didn't realize side posts have been around that long.

2. Found the trim TAG! Perfect condition, too! Hope the rest comes... The Original Owner was very detail oriented about keeping paperwork.

3. Yea... It has some Cornell all seasons on it... I am scared...

4. I found the engine code, thanks to the black book, but thanks again!



So, you saying I'm too late and you got your answers? lol

What's a side post?


WB
Posted on: 2014/9/15 21:16
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WarBonnet Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:
Quote:

WarBonnet wrote:
Couple more things

Try Precision Brakes in Florida, he is THE MAN for all your brake issues! These should have the O rings? Go stainless. If they are the original calipers they are dated to the car.

Dump the fuel completely, why risk the damage?

The mold should clean up easily. Simple green...

WB


I am going to keep these ORIGINAL brakes. I know they are old, but they are right and I am marketing this as NCRS survivor friendly.

Otherwise, I agree with your assessment 100%.

There isn't much fuel, 1/3rd of a tank, and dealing with disposal here in CA is a pain, so I will do this: Add the Techron, then fill it with good premium. Happy balance... 15 gallons of good fuel should go a long way, vs trying to make sense with disposal. I have enough jerry cans to do this.

And once I determined the seats were vinyl, I was going to hit with simple green and STP Son of a Gun and that was that.

Next question, what is the right waxing process for this vintage paint? I know it will never shine like modern, but do I want to take the dull off.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!


Precision will rebuild YOUR calipers and send them back!

Big error......! Some become quite offended when mistaking the two! I'm not one of them. Really just helping clear up the combined wording you used, you probably knew this already.

NCRS has the Bowtie Award for original cars of that era.

Bloomington has trademarked the term "Survivor" and can technically only be used by them in relation to original Corvettes. The definition of this trademarked word has been changing. You'll have to visit their web site for the latest revision.....


As far as waxing, I'm still using old school Mothers Gold Carnauba. Lot of work but the old lacquer likes it.


Regards,

WB
Posted on: 2014/9/15 21:24
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Ultraman Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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.....Blue Coral.... Now that's old school.....it was great on the old lacquer paint
Posted on: 2014/9/15 21:34
Edited by Ultraman on 2014/9/15 21:53:16
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
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Quote:

WarBonnet wrote:
Quote:

bogus wrote:
Quote:

WarBonnet wrote:
Couple more things

Try Precision Brakes in Florida, he is THE MAN for all your brake issues! These should have the O rings? Go stainless. If they are the original calipers they are dated to the car.

Dump the fuel completely, why risk the damage?

The mold should clean up easily. Simple green...

WB


I am going to keep these ORIGINAL brakes. I know they are old, but they are right and I am marketing this as NCRS survivor friendly.

Otherwise, I agree with your assessment 100%.

There isn't much fuel, 1/3rd of a tank, and dealing with disposal here in CA is a pain, so I will do this: Add the Techron, then fill it with good premium. Happy balance... 15 gallons of good fuel should go a long way, vs trying to make sense with disposal. I have enough jerry cans to do this.

And once I determined the seats were vinyl, I was going to hit with simple green and STP Son of a Gun and that was that.

Next question, what is the right waxing process for this vintage paint? I know it will never shine like modern, but do I want to take the dull off.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!


Precision will rebuild YOUR calipers and send them back!

Big error......! Some become quite offended when mistaking the two! I'm not one of them. Really just helping clear up the combined wording you used, you probably knew this already.

NCRS has the Bowtie Award for original cars of that era.

Bloomington has trademarked the term "Survivor" and can technically only be used by them in relation to original Corvettes. The definition of this trademarked word has been changing. You'll have to visit their web site for the latest revision.....


As far as waxing, I'm still using old school Mothers Gold Carnauba. Lot of work but the old lacquer likes it.


Regards,

WB


I will look into the rebuild option!

I know about the pissing contest over "survivor". A real pain... And I get them messed up all the time.

Posted on: 2014/9/15 21:45
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Matatk Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

WarBonnet wrote:
Couple more things

Try Precision Brakes in Florida, he is THE MAN for all your brake issues! These should have the O rings? Go stainless. If they are the original calipers they are dated to the car.

WB


I found this:

http://www.cssbinc.com/images/ads/how ... errebuildinstructions.pdf

Lip seal style calipers were found on all 65-82 calipers.

Posted on: 2014/9/16 1:17
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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oooh... that's good stuff, Matthew! Thanks!!!!

Posted on: 2014/9/16 16:37
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rklessdriver Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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I know some of this has already been covered by to parrot what others have recomended and my own info.....

Talk with a couple of brake companies.... there is a bunch of options out there but many are re-sellers/re-boxers of the same parts....

Muskegon is who I got to do the brakes on my 79 and my 76... they rebuilt my calipers and masters and shipped them back to me... I did this mainly because I wanted to them to use my known good matching cores for the rebuild.

O-Ring or lip seal is a big debate in the C3 world.... there are draw backs to both.... and both still fail at about the same rate. In the end I had ours SS sleeved and O-Ringed but I don't think it will pass NCRS... not that its a big deal for either my C3's.

Tires... I have 225 70R15's on both of my cars and they fit great.

Carb.. L48 has a Rochester Q-Jet so thats a pretty complicated carb to get apart... nto like a Holley. Get a book so you know whats your doing. Cliff Ruggles book is the best Q-jet book ever.

Also double check the condition of the fuel lines down on the fuel pump. Should be a 1 pc steel line from pump to carb and a short rubber peice from the frame mounted steel fuel line to the pump.

For the seats... since they are Vinyl or Leather some simple Green diluted in water with a soft rag will clean them right up.... after you dry them use some kind of Vinyl protectant.

For the paint.... it's Laq and should be easy to buff it with some rubbing compound and then protect with an old school carnuba wax.

Don't forget to change the engine oil!

Sounds like a nice project.
Will
Posted on: 2014/9/16 18:20
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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since all I care about is the brakes functioning at 100% NOW, and safely, I am going to fix them the most common and easiest way possible.

Remember, every dollar spent is a dollar out of my pocket, so to speak, so I must to this "Wheeler Dealer" style.

Now, if this was my car to keep, I would do something to upgrade them, but at this point, ain't happening.

Does NCRS actually take a brake caliper apart to see if it has an oring in it? That seems risky...

It is a Q-Jet, and I wasn't going to do much more than pull the lid off and blast the circuits out. I will check that book out, tho, thanks! I planned on checking the fuel line and filter... the car was parked for a few years, then recommissioned by the original owner, he died, it was driven some, then the brakes went off, and the car has been parked ever since. So the last 10 years can't have added more than 3,000 miles, TOPS... oh, I am also going to check the rubber brake lines.

I had a feeling that a wider tire would fit on that rim, thanks for the option!

I am going to squirt oil down each spark plug hole, and yes, change the oil. I am figuring 20-50 Mobil 1 would be the best solution for this vintage an engine.

Posted on: 2014/9/16 19:41
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BillH Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:
Does NCRS actually take a brake caliper apart to see if it has an oring in it? That seems risky...



Of course not,

There were 2 different castings on the caliper halves switching to the newer sometime in the 67 production run.

Caliper half casting numbers should be 5452281 and 5452284 with a Julian calendar date (without the year) on the lower flange.
Painted semi-gloss black without paint on the machined surfaces. Pins holding the pads are cad plated.
Posted on: 2014/9/16 21:17
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BillH Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:

It is a Q-Jet, and I wasn't going to do much more than pull the lid off and blast the circuits out.


Be careful with the cleaned, while I'm not familiar with the Q-Jet NCRS-wise, there may be ink stamps on the carb or under the air cleaner that you do not want to remove.

On the wax, If you plan to market it as a true survivor, don't wax it, just soap & water.
Posted on: 2014/9/16 21:20
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BillH Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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BTW, I rebuild a lot of calipers using lip seals including Girling & Lockheed. Never had a problem on the racetrack.
Posted on: 2014/9/16 21:24
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

BillH wrote:
Quote:

bogus wrote:
Does NCRS actually take a brake caliper apart to see if it has an oring in it? That seems risky...



Of course not,

There were 2 different castings on the caliper halves switching to the newer sometime in the 67 production run.

Caliper half casting numbers should be 5452281 and 5452284 with a Julian calendar date (without the year) on the lower flange.
Painted semi-gloss black without paint on the machined surfaces. Pins holding the pads are cad plated.


Thanks for the details! I do want the brakes to be both accurate and safe... safe first... but if they are rusty, that wouldn't help, eh?
Posted on: 2014/9/16 22:37
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

BillH wrote:
Quote:

bogus wrote:

It is a Q-Jet, and I wasn't going to do much more than pull the lid off and blast the circuits out.


Be careful with the cleaned, while I'm not familiar with the Q-Jet NCRS-wise, there may be ink stamps on the carb or under the air cleaner that you do not want to remove.

On the wax, If you plan to market it as a true survivor, don't wax it, just soap & water.


I suspect that any markings of that nature are long gone... I am sure some ham fisted tech has done that damage already! But I will keep an eye out.

I will see how it looks after a wash, but I can't see where a protective coat of wax will ruin the "survivor" status.
Posted on: 2014/9/16 22:39
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Matatk Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:

I am going to squirt oil down each spark plug hole, and yes, change the oil. I am figuring 20-50 Mobil 1 would be the best solution for this vintage an engine.



I would not run any oil that didn't have zddp already in it.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/con ... or-oil/racing-motor-oil/6

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/M ... _Levels_Classic_Cars.aspx

etc, etc....
Posted on: 2014/9/16 22:49
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BillH Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:

Thanks for the details! I do want the brakes to be both accurate and safe... safe first... but if they are rusty, that wouldn't help, eh?


Depends, surface rust on the piston & bores can be removed with Scotchbrite & Brake Clean.

Pitting is a different story.

I did 4 1961 Girling's the other month, on 2 I had to replace the pistons, they were stuck pretty hard and pitted.

Even with that, the bores were OK.
Posted on: 2014/9/16 23:20
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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I know the difference... and pitting is a concern. Considering all the sitting this has done. But I am hoping a light honing will take care of it.

'61 Girlings? What were they for?
Posted on: 2014/9/17 0:46
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BillH Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:
I know the difference... and pitting is a concern. Considering all the sitting this has done. But I am hoping a light honing will take care of it.

'61 Girlings? What were they for?


1961 Lotus FF

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jpg  2014-05-22 11-32-44_0002.JPG (638.24 KB)
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Posted on: 2014/9/17 2:41
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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ah. most cool.
Posted on: 2014/9/17 5:30
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Got a look at the original paperwork.

No window sticker, but the original bill of sale and the finance docs were there!

the guy financed it for all of $154 a month for 36 months!!! hahhahahahaha!!!! That was $60 a month more then my Dad was paying on his 72 Dodge Dart!
Posted on: 2014/9/18 19:33
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teebee Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Are we going to see some pictures of this survivor?
Posted on: 2014/9/19 3:11
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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yes. this weekend.
Posted on: 2014/9/19 15:47
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Ultraman Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:
Got a look at the original paperwork.

No window sticker, but the original bill of sale and the finance docs were there!

the guy financed it for all of $154 a month for 36 months!!! hahhahahahaha!!!! That was $60 a month more then my Dad was paying on his 72 Dodge Dart!



Kinda makes you want to go in and get the build sheet don't it....?

Let's see my Dad was making about $700 per month back in that day so 154 would have been a stretch for us with a house payment of 150/month....
Posted on: 2014/9/19 15:58
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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I know what you mean!
Posted on: 2014/9/19 17:28
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Got started today! The passengers side is mostly cleaned up... the master cylinder is out and apart and marginally cleaner! It needs rebuilt, the seals are junk.
Posted on: 2014/9/22 0:41
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Ultraman Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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I am thinking this is an original California car with the extra pollution controls on it from the factory.....? That would show up in the engine code....
Posted on: 2014/9/22 22:56
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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The original sales document indicated "CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS" or something to that effect.

This is a 72, but it does have the AIR kit... Also has PCV but I don't think it had a catalytic converter. That was a little bit later. I need to get under to find out for sure.
Posted on: 2014/9/22 23:46
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j3studio Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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Quote:

bogus wrote:

The original sales document indicated "CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS" or something to that effect. This is a 72, but it does have the AIR kit... Also has PCV but I don't think it had a catalytic converter. That was a little bit later. I need to get under to find out for sure.

No cats until 1975 ...

Posted on: 2014/9/24 19:04
Edited by j3studio on 2014/9/24 19:55:21
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bogus Re: Guess whose got a C3?
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That sounds about right... And at that point, they were not required until 1981.

I know that certain "clean" cars didn't require them... my 76 AMC didn't have one... my Mom's 78 Audi Fox didn't have one...

Posted on: 2014/9/24 19:51
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