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istter1 Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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my mechanic that worked on my 87 vet left the relays hanging loose. Pulled in my driveway and a poof of smoke comes from drivers side and engine shuts off. smelled like burning plastic. wires don't look good so I replace relay plugs and relays. Have spark but fuel pump not pumping. All fuses good. Could the fuel pump been damaged.

This small cap from the master cylinder was cracked it attaches to the break fluid reservoir. where do you find this part. Break fluid leaking

Steve

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Posted on: 2016/8/8 4:51
Edited by istter1 on 2016/8/8 5:16:39
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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What's fuel pressure?
Posted on: 2016/8/8 9:50
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BillH Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:

Schrade wrote:
What's fuel pressure?


Yep, and I'm not sure on an 89 (I don't have the FSM) but IIRC, there's a fuel pump enable relay that may be under the dash behind the glove box.
Posted on: 2016/8/8 14:13
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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no fuel pressure and I can't hear the pump come on. how do I jump it on the pins
can I check it where the wires enter the fuel pump location where I install the pump

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jpg  relay.jpg (64.20 KB)
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Posted on: 2016/8/8 14:17
Edited by istter1 on 2016/8/8 15:17:22
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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NO pressure? There should have been some residual fuel pressure. Pumps don't usually fail while running.

Whatever test you do for pump, don't hold the connection for longer than 2 seconds - it will cook in short order.

For relay test (ONLY relay, not pump itself (and you will need FSM to ID the 4 leads):

IF FP Relay is like cooling fan relays, test for INCOMING 12V to relay. Then test 12V ground.

Then put in a paperclip to close THAT circuit.

Then test the other 2 sockets for continuity.

Here's a schematic for CF Relays - never mind my notes - I didn't know what I was doin' (still don't most times).

You'll need to determine which circuit is 'master' circuit (D-F), and which is 'slave' circuit (A-E).

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jpg  fanrelays.jpg (147.77 KB)
1687_57a8d256c2403.jpg 637X825 px
Posted on: 2016/8/8 18:35
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joeld Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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If you're trying to check the pump, ground the G terminal on the ALDC and then turn the ignition to on. Just don't leave it grounded for more than a few seconds.

If you're checking the relay just swap out one from the MAF power or the burn-off behind the battery. they're the same on a 89 model.

Joel
Posted on: 2016/8/8 18:57
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Matatk Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Joel is 1/2 correct. Terminal G will power the fuel pump, but you have to provide a 12 v source. I have used a bump start switch from battery power or you can use a hot wire.

If the pump runs that way you most likely have a relay problem or wiring in that vicinity. Also check the fuel pump fuse. If the relay had a problem it might have popped. I'd check that first after replacing/swapping the relay.

If it doesn't run with the hot wire, you can find the fuel pump connection by removing the gas filler door and rubber boot and trying hot wiring it there.
Posted on: 2016/8/8 19:34
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joeld Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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this looks like the pig tail for the relay.

Joel

https://www.eficonnection.com/home/pro ... r-relay-connector-pigtail
Posted on: 2016/8/8 19:34
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I will give it a try thanks
Posted on: 2016/8/8 19:34
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I replaced the relay and plug wires already.
I had thought about going to the plug to the fuel pump and check for current . Can the fuel pump take a full 12 volts to jump.
I got this one from Race tronics 3 years ago. I was hoping it didn't get fried from the relay some how
I guess just bumping it

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Posted on: 2016/8/8 22:31
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Posted on: 2016/8/8 22:59
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joeld Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:


Sorry about the link I posted for the pig tail, for some reason I was thinking you had a 89.

Joel
Posted on: 2016/8/9 0:12
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BrianCunningham Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I know there's a harness degradation problem with the early C4 harnesses
Posted on: 2016/8/9 1:14
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I have 2 of those under my battery. I was lucky to find that sight.

Posted on: 2016/8/9 2:13
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Yep been repairing them 1 at a time. Some times more like the fuel injectors harness. Ron has it all

http://www.ronfrancis.com/
Posted on: 2016/8/9 2:17
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Ok now power to fuel pump relay plug. Any one know what it's source is. It is the large wire on the slotted side of plug. Can I tap into other hot plug for fan and youse it. It's power comes on when the key comes on.

Jumped fuel pump works fine.
does anyone sell the rubber liner under the gas cap, Mine is getting shot. Dirty too


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Posted on: 2016/8/9 3:13
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Ok "no" power to fuel pump relay plug. Any one know what it's source is. It is the large wire on the slotted side of plug. Can I tap into other hot plug for fan and youse it. It's power comes on when the key comes on.

Jumped fuel pump works fine.
does anyone sell the rubber liner under the gas cap, Mine is getting shot. Dirty too
Posted on: 2016/8/9 4:31
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Matatk Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I'd have the check the FSM for the source. I'm wondering if you fried a fusible link?

The rubber lines should run to the front of the car for the evap system, they wouldn't be easy to change.
Posted on: 2016/8/9 4:39
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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that is another option I am going to remove the battery and check the relays there later.
Heading to the bone yards in a few. The plastic master cylinder on the 87 has a connector that goes to the bowl, well mine has a crack in it.

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Posted on: 2016/8/9 15:05
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Matatk Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Regarding the connector, do you mean an electrical connector with a single wire? That's the brake light switch for the dashboard.
Posted on: 2016/8/9 20:14
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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no the plastic piece that connects to the reservoirs and the master cylinder
Posted on: 2016/8/9 20:45
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Matatk Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Ok. I think the 87 still had a single reservoir. You might be able to upgrade to a double, not sure off the top of my head.
Posted on: 2016/8/9 22:18
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I ordered one gorilla glue will only hold for so long
Posted on: 2016/8/9 23:02
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:

Matatk wrote:
I'd have the check the FSM for the source. I'm wondering if you fried a fusible link?

The rubber lines should run to the front of the car for the evap system, they wouldn't be easy to change.


Wire just below the link melted. Under the batteries.
picture of relays above the picture I want won't post lol

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Posted on: 2016/8/9 23:28
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j3studio Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:

istter1 wrote:
Yep been repairing them 1 at a time. Some times more like the fuel injectors harness. Ron has it all

http://www.ronfrancis.com/


Holy !@#$% ...

... bookmark.
Posted on: 2016/8/10 0:45
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Matatk Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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In that case I'd replace the wire as well as the fusible link.
Posted on: 2016/8/10 3:06
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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did that thanks for the advice. Will put it back together tomorrow and see if it runs
Watching Olympics
Posted on: 2016/8/10 4:54
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I wouldn't do that, without seeing a schematic for the relay, or knowing Amp draws in the circuits anyway.

Relays often carry much different current in each of the 2 circuits, like the Fan Relays that I posted above.

Quote:

istter1 wrote:
Can I tap into other hot plug for fan and youse it. It's power comes on when the key comes on.




Looks like you got 4 different repairs goin' on here Steve - makes it a little harder to help follow progress of each one...
Posted on: 2016/8/10 14:23
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I put it back the way it was with new fusible link It is up and running

Now get the brakes working. ordered the two master cylinder reservoirs system don't now if it will fit

Thanks for the help guys
Posted on: 2016/8/10 17:14
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Crap wires started on fire

tomorrow it goes to my friends shop
Posted on: 2016/8/10 22:01
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Matatk Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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You've got something feeding into/cutting into that circuit.
Posted on: 2016/8/10 22:49
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Duh

but what is it. Ahhhhhh

Getting ready to go back to work Next week.
The shoulder brecciates is responding well, Ahhhhh
The Sciatica almost gone.

Getting old sucks

My friends shop is almost slow and he is a hell of a mechanic. Oops he reads this forum for info on repairing My corvette. You guys are sharp
Posted on: 2016/8/11 0:51
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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You did not put in a new Fusible Link without diagnosing what cooked the old one???

You're going to a different mechanic than the one who left the relays hanging?

Posted on: 2016/8/11 13:24
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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o yay hit me below the belt. We grew up together. Leaving the relays hanging was stupid on that part. I thought I had found the problem until poof again.
Posted on: 2016/8/11 15:10
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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If a harness fusible link cooked, you should have multiple codes - have you checked codes yet?

I'd seriously consider getting FSM, to start proper diagnostics. Even if you don't want to do the repair, you can save your wrench buddy lots of 'fishing time'...
Posted on: 2016/8/11 15:51
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:

Schrade wrote:
If a harness fusible link cooked, you should have multiple codes - have you checked codes yet?

I'd seriously consider getting FSM, to start proper diagnostics. Even if you don't want to do the repair, you can save your wrench buddy lots of 'fishing time'...


no codes have been checking as you suggest

Fusible link didn't fry this time. CF wont let me post picture again
Posted on: 2016/8/11 16:13
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I have been using 1987 electrical Diagnosis service manual
Haynes
and Bishko service manual
Posted on: 2016/8/11 17:08
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Haynes / chitons usually aren't much help. Don't know bishko...

Really need FSM to be sure there - need to ID the circuit, and find out what's on that line (besides probably fuel pump).

And it sounds like it' a Switched circuit; not a Hot At All Times circuit.
Posted on: 2016/8/12 2:08
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:

Schrade wrote:
Haynes / chitons usually aren't much help. Don't know bishko...

Really need FSM to be sure there - need to ID the circuit, and find out what's on that line (besides probably fuel pump).

And it sounds like it' a Switched circuit; not a Hot At All Times circuit.
I don't have that ability he does
well my son disabled something a year ago under the dash that allows you to start the engine with out depressing the clutch
Posted on: 2016/8/12 4:05
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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THat sounds like an 'EN-ablement' there Steve, which should be electrically ok, IF DONE CORRECTLY - if all he did was by-pass the clutch switch for starter enable...

'Course, if your parked in the wrong place, and try to start it in gear, it could be a problem!!!
Posted on: 2016/8/12 12:57
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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He did it three months ago
So I assume that was safe
Thanks
Posted on: 2016/8/12 14:14
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BillH Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:

Schrade wrote:

'Course, if your parked in the wrong place, and try to start it in gear, it could be a problem!!!


My 6 other Corvettes didn't have that switch.



Somewhere there's a hot wire (key on) that's touching bare metal. This stuff doesn't burn up like this unless it's shorted.
Posted on: 2016/8/12 23:49
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GOLDCYLON Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Did you find that master cylinder replacement piece or just repair it ?
Posted on: 2016/8/13 0:39
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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I ordered the 2 reservoir system. no luck on the single still looking
Posted on: 2016/8/13 0:57
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Posted on: 2016/8/13 1:32
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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This is scary Sorry Andy lol a video posted. This was the first repair motor running great

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3gp 20160810_094737.3gp Size: 327.92 KB; Hits: 310
Posted on: 2016/8/13 1:35
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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Guys at other forum tot me how to use Electrical diagnosis service manual supplement.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c ... related-to-fuel-pump.html


I guess this is like or is FSM?

on page 8a 202 4 plug c309 I can't read the numbers for plug on that page any one have it.

I guess this will make it easier for my buddy with the good eyes. Joking

School starts tomorrow No working on car at the shop for me.



Posted on: 2016/8/16 4:11
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BillH Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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Quote:

istter1 wrote:

I guess this is like or is FSM?


The FSM is 2 books, first is mechanical. second is Drivability and Electrical Diagnosis.
Posted on: 2016/8/16 13:39
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Schrade Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
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2008/8/15 2:01



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What codes do you have?

You HAVE TO have FSM. Codes will defer to a LOWER Code # usually, and when you fix one, higher # codes sometimes will also be fixed.

Diagnosis leads to circuits in common. If you're starting school, following diagnostic flow charts will help you focus on schoolwork EQUALLY well. AND show EXACTLY what's wrong with the car...

Have you got one yet?
Posted on: 2016/8/16 13:55
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LT5, Marc Haibeck ECM module, AUTOMATIC!!!

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istter1 Re: Smoke under hood poof fuel pump stops working
Elite Guru
Bakersfield Ca
2336 Posts
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2011/7/4 21:23



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Quote:

BillH wrote:
Quote:

istter1 wrote:

I guess this is like or is FSM?


The FSM is 2 books, first is mechanical. second is Drivability and Electrical Diagnosis.



Bill this is what I am using.

Where do you buy FSM and what do the FSM stand for.
Field service manual

There are no codes
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Look at 8A-10-0 the only fusible link that turn into ORANGE from the battery is to the relays (FP, MAF), OPS, ECM. Look to the left side of the wiring schematic for those. All of the rest of the links in that vicinity go to RED wires for Voltage.

Since you've posted a scanned image I guess you've got the FSM in hand. Do you need me to post an image of where I mean?


Last edited by WVZR-1; Yesterday at 09:15 PM.
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Unable to get codes as right now the orange wire melted. The above information is why I assumed I had the right book.

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Posted on: 2016/8/16 22:57
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