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Print in friendly format Send this term to a friend  ASR
Automatic Slip Regulation; ie traction control.

Standard on all C4s starting in 1992....
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CentralCoaster News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
Senior Guru
San Diego, CA
9454 Posts
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Hawk has their Blue, Black, DTC-60,70 and HT-10 compounds for the front and rear. And then obviously the HP+, HPS, Ceramic street pads. (Happens to be the only ceramic available for early C4s if low dust is your goal.)

http://catalog.hawkperformance.com/h_ ... any_id=10028147&year=1985

I don't see as much specs on the compounds as some of the other places, they just have this dummy chart in their catalog for comparison:

http://www.hawkperformance.com/motors ... ds/road_race_brochure.pdf

Tirerack seems to have the best prices and inventory (and happens to be a guru sponsor if you click the banner.) Summit is a little cheaper on their street pad prices.

FWIW, rear pads appear to be the same 84-96.
Posted on: 2008/8/12 19:14
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bogus Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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You are right, all rears are the same.

I am real happy with my Hawks.
Posted on: 2008/8/13 2:08
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BillH Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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Reno
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Quote:

CentralCoaster wrote:

I don't see as much specs on the compounds as some of the other places, they just have this dummy chart in their catalog for comparison:


That chart is actually better than what's in the 2007 catalog I have.

What specs on the others do you see that aren't here? Just curious.
Posted on: 2008/8/14 16:11
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CentralCoaster Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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San Diego, CA
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Friction/temperature curves, or any friction value for that matter.

Wilwood publishes that info.
Posted on: 2008/8/14 17:49
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MarkB Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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2008/7/16 16:41



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I run hawk HPS on the street, but never ran their race pads (I just never tried). I've been really happy with Performance Friction race pads which are also available in C4 sizes. The 01 compounds are fantastic and not too bad on rotors.

Regardless, you definitely need good brake ducting if you're running any form of race pad -- particularly on high-speed tracks.
Posted on: 2008/8/14 20:07
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CentralCoaster Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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Why?

The whole point of the race pad is it can take more heat than a street pad before losing friction.

So, I'd say you'd need ducting on a street pad if anything.
Posted on: 2008/8/14 22:27
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BillH Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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Reno
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I looked at Willwood, yep better specs. Good info for the engineering mindset.

In the end though, I think you just have to try some compounds or manufactures that peek your interest. A lot depends on your braking style and what friction curve and initial response fits you.

I've spent a ton of money on Hawk blues and blacks and done some test days (not practice days)determining which I liked best.

No ducting needed unless you're building a "full race" C4.

Most C4,5,6 HPDE drivers overuse their brakes and end up with the heat problems.

MSI in Sacramento just got a prototype of the Baer 6 piston setup that fits C4's with the HD rotors (13").
Posted on: 2008/8/15 14:23
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CentralCoaster Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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I've hear that term all the time... "overusing the brakes".

I don't see any possible way that using the brakes less is going to help lap times. (Obviously assuming someone isn't slowing down too much into the corners.)

If your definition of overusing is pushing the brakes past their abilities, then I personally think the brakes are just undersized for the application. These vettes simply weren't designed for road racing.


My interest in the friction, as that has a huge effect on bias. You can run mismatched pads with similar temperature profiles in order to control your bias. My car is overbraked in front for example, but I can run stickier pads in back and raise the line pressure to compensate. Having a larger rotor would fix that too, but it's the expensive way if I don't need the additional heat transfer ability.
Posted on: 2008/8/15 15:47
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BillH Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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I mentioned "overusing" mainly because of the brake duct thing. But I see it all the time at HPDE's. You're right about slowing down too much and I see this a lot along with braking way too early, braking for turns where it's not needed. A lot of it comes from running poor lines (which I see in the intermediate and advances groups). Most of the HPDE drivers don't threshold brake, so they're on the brakes for a longer time. I think this is why there's a lot of complaints about the heat.

You're also right about running mismatched pads. It's done all the time. You see it a lot in the NASA classes.
Even with the specs and curves, you'll still have to test the pad combination to see if it works for your style. And, yea, it's expensive. But it always is when you go to the track.

Two years ago on the test day before the 25 Hours of ThunderHill, the driver of an Acura that I was crewing for came in with the complaint of the rear hopping under heavy braking (rear bias). The crewchief had the PFC specs and decided to go with a different compound on the rears. The driver went out and put the car off the track twice with the fronts locking up a little too much. We switched to another combination and the driver was comfortable.
Posted on: 2008/8/16 14:58
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Aardwolf Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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Fremont, WI
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I disagree about brake ducts. They are a cheap, easy to install mod that can only help you. You can run a wider range of pad, safer. You have less heat damage and there can be less heat soak into areas around the brakes, like melting the tie rod boot. Letting the brakes get super hot then puts your fluid at a higher risk of boiling.
Posted on: 2008/8/16 15:32
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MarkB Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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Aardwolf is spot-on regarding ducting. If you do even one HPDE a year, it's still worth it. Please don't take this as me being an ass, but basically if you think you're fast enough to need race pads, then you're fast enough to need ducting.

Race pads can definitely take more heat, but if you're running your car at 90%+ you're still cooking the rotors which will cause warping and excessive wear. Also as good as they are at taking heat, race pads do still have limits and will wear excessively and lose their bite. And you WILL boil your fluid.

If you're running street pads for roadracing, obviously you need ducting that much more unless you're really taking it easy.
Posted on: 2008/8/18 19:31
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SpectatorRacing Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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If you keep your brakes too cool and run race pads you will never get them up to temperature and therefore never take advantage of your full braking potential.

Hawk HPS and HP+ are not race pads.

You'll notice a lot of fade if your brakes are overheating. CC, newbs can "overuse" the brakes as stated by Bill. Typically this involves two things:

1. Overslowing the car - not a bad thing but obviously not the fastest way around a track

2. Applying the brakes improperly - this is the most common.

Think about how you apply your brakes on the street - you ease into them, gradually increasing pressure as the car gets closer to the stop light. Therefore you have your pads on the rotor for a much longer time, even if the pressure is not as high as near the end of the stop.

Hard, fast, "binary" stops slow the car more quickly, in less distance, and generate much less heat. The rotors will have more time to cool between stops as well. Obviously there is a method to this, you can't just stab the brakes or you'll lockup or unsettle the car.

Some brake fade on stock pads and rotors is to be expected, but is often construed as brake failure. I took the M3 to the track a few weeks ago on stock brakes, street pads. After about two stops the pedal was soft and had double the travel, but the car stopped just fine. It felt like the brakes were fading, but they just got hot. Compensate in your driving and in most cases you're fine. I ran several sessions like that, and the brakes felt "normal" on the ride home as they were cooler.
Posted on: 2008/8/19 2:20
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BillH Re: News to me: Race compound pads for stock C4 brakes.
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Thanks Jon, that's exactly what I meant.
Posted on: 2008/8/19 14:49
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