jsup wrote:
who is GN and can I get a link?

PeteK wrote:
Quote:

jsup wrote:
who is GN and can I get a link?

GN is Buick Grand National
They used a 27 spline, 2004r
Ratios are similar to a turbo 350, thus you will lose the steep first gear of a 700. You would have less rpm drop on the 1-2 shift of the 2004r, however.
Trans case and tailhousing are 1 pc, with a conventional mount system. You would have to have a crossmember fabbed up, and a mount to secure the rear end as well. You don't ever hear of this swap because it it not feasablle without major fab work.
Then you have what is arguable similar transmissions, but the 200 will have a thinner, weaker input shaft.

TPI-guy wrote:
I myself would go to the GN site's, and see what they use. Go see how they beefed up there 200R4 to take over 800 hp.

jsup wrote:
Quote:

PeteK wrote:
Quote:

jsup wrote:
who is GN and can I get a link?

GN is Buick Grand National
They used a 27 spline, 2004r
Ratios are similar to a turbo 350, thus you will lose the steep first gear of a 700. You would have less rpm drop on the 1-2 shift of the 2004r, however.
Trans case and tailhousing are 1 pc, with a conventional mount system. You would have to have a crossmember fabbed up, and a mount to secure the rear end as well. You don't ever hear of this swap because it it not feasablle without major fab work.
Then you have what is arguable similar transmissions, but the 200 will have a thinner, weaker input shaft.

If I'm spending that kind of money I'm going for the 4L80 conversion. At least it's a stronger trans.

TPI-guy wrote:
Jsup and Petek. I think you guys mis-understood my post. I wasn't saying for you guys to go with a 200. My suggestion was to find out where these tranny's were being built, and do some investigation to what they suggest for 600 hp. maybe these gs know there 700's as well. BTW, will that combo make 600 hp?

TPI-guy wrote:
BTW, will that combo make 600 hp?

TPI-guy wrote:
With the new ZR-1's making just a tad bit over 600, and they have a blower. Heh, maybe you will. Let us know. I have just found that making 550-600 chp with a Gen1 isn't easy with good street manners where it's not hard at all with a LSx motor. My C5 for instance makes over 560 chp, and it's just a boring 402 that passes emmissions. Saying that I still like the Gen1 motors. I guess what I am saying is that you really have to put a super stout motor together (500 rwhp) 600 chp with Gen 1's. I just haven't seen too many guys do it with a hyd roller, or maybe you have?

cuisinartvette wrote:
Did you have it dynoed, I missed that I guess.

jsup wrote:
Quote:

TPI-guy wrote:
With the new ZR-1's making just a tad bit over 600, and they have a blower. Heh, maybe you will. Let us know. I have just found that making 550-600 chp with a Gen1 isn't easy with good street manners where it's not hard at all with a LSx motor. My C5 for instance makes over 560 chp, and it's just a boring 402 that passes emmissions. Saying that I still like the Gen1 motors. I guess what I am saying is that you really have to put a super stout motor together (500 rwhp) 600 chp with Gen 1's. I just haven't seen too many guys do it with a hyd roller, or maybe you have?

Here's just one of many examples. 568 HP out of this with a budget build, and streetable.

30 more HP to move up to the same heads CNCd, that's pretty close to 600 on a streetable motor.

It's done every day.

TPI-guy wrote:
Actually it's quite the opposite infact

It is done everyday on LSx stuff in a blink of the eye.

Years ago, I build a 383 for my C4, and it dynoed 330rwhp. It was quite an eye opener.

Remember the LS7 427 makes about 490-520 chp stock. One of the biggest reasons why it's so efficient and can pass emmisions with flying colours is because it has a very small cam with heads that flow 335cfm plus.

You went the other way, bigger cam, with much weaker flowing heads. Very much looking forward to seeing how the car performs. Last big stroker I saw was a 434 with a solid roller with 235cc heads, and stout compression. It made 515 rwhp which was a tad over 600chp.

cuisinartvette wrote:
[QUOTE]Remember the LS7 427 makes about 490-520 chp stock. One of the biggest reasons why it's so efficient and can pass emmisions with flying colours is because it has a very small cam with heads that flow 335cfm plus.
[/QUOTE]
True. They avg. 435-450rwhp stock, for some reason the C5s seem to have less % drivetrain loss. You get a good enough head you dont need a cam and all the associated overlap to make good power.

cuisinartvette wrote:
[QUOTE]
Kinda puts the flow argument on it's ass doesn't it.

[/QUOTE]
Nope

You have a good enough head you can make excellent power, and yes, more with a little more cam as it has the capacity or "growing room" built in.

Try sticking a big cam in a stock Gen 1 head and see what happens.

cuisinartvette wrote:
[QUOTE]
Kinda puts the flow argument on it's ass doesn't it.

[/QUOTE]
Nope

You have a good enough head you can make excellent power, and yes, more with a little more cam as it has the capacity or "growing room" built in.

Try sticking a big cam in a stock Gen 1 head and see what happens.

pr0zac wrote:
no way. an ls1 can make more power. get out of town. is that why a ls1 head flows very similar numbers to an lt4 head, yet it has 10 times the potential? i wonder why that is? might it be cause it has about half the valve angle not to mention a completely different design. but who cares about that. its all dry flow. who built that 402? and your 383? hell any idiot off the street could build a 330rwhp motor. you obviously did something wrong when you can drop a hotcam kit in an lt1 and net the same results. pat yourself on the back for that one!

cuisinartvette wrote:
Edit: Im familiar with stock class cirlce track rules they are limited to factory heads.
Sprint cars? Never built one
Street motors? Plenty and more are on the way.

No "point" just trying to state my opinion.
I will always be of the opinion that heads are where the power is at

Who are you referring to?

[QUOTE]no way. an ls1 can make more power. get out of town. is that why a ls1 head flows very similar numbers to an lt4 head, yet it has 10 times the potential? i wonder why that is? might it be cause it has about half the valve angle not to mention a completely different design. but who cares about that. its all dry flow. who built that 402? and your 383? hell any idiot off the street could build a 330rwhp motor. you obviously did something wrong when you can drop a hotcam kit in an lt1 and net the same results. pat yourself on the back for that one![/QUOTE]

No "point" just trying to state my opinion.
I will always be of the opinion that heads are where the power is at

pr0zac wrote:
Quote:

cuisinartvette wrote:
Edit: Im familiar with stock class cirlce track rules they are limited to factory heads.
Sprint cars? Never built one
Street motors? Plenty and more are on the way.

No "point" just trying to state my opinion.
I will always be of the opinion that heads are where the power is at

Who are you referring to?

[QUOTE]no way. an ls1 can make more power. get out of town. is that why a ls1 head flows very similar numbers to an lt4 head, yet it has 10 times the potential? i wonder why that is? might it be cause it has about half the valve angle not to mention a completely different design. but who cares about that. its all dry flow. who built that 402? and your 383? hell any idiot off the street could build a 330rwhp motor. you obviously did something wrong when you can drop a hotcam kit in an lt1 and net the same results. pat yourself on the back for that one![/QUOTE]

the tpiguy who seems to be the tpi/lsXguy with a nasty ground pounding 383 c4!! who gives a shit. isn't this a transmission thread? not a i am going to insert my uncalled for opinion about other peoples motors when i can't build a motor to save my life thread.

jsup wrote:
Quote:

No "point" just trying to state my opinion.
I will always be of the opinion that heads are where the power is at

When properly chosen for the right reasons, and in consideration of the rest of the build, yes.

Problem is, many people thumb through the Summit catalog or hop on the interweb and buy parts based on false, meaningless statistics and cool factor. Then the cars run like shit, as we see in the examples above.

Ask Pr0zac, he built the catalog cool factor motor and got his ass handed to him, only when he saw what the guys who kicked his ass were doing he did that, and got much better results. And guess what, none of those builds were done out of catalogs and based on cool factors...just sayin.

pr0zac wrote:
no way. an ls1 can make more power. get out of town. is that why a ls1 head flows very similar numbers to an lt4 head, yet it has 10 times the potential? i wonder why that is? might it be cause it has about half the valve angle not to mention a completely different design. but who cares about that. its all dry flow. who built that 402? and your 383? hell any idiot off the street could build a 330rwhp motor. you obviously did something wrong when you can drop a hotcam kit in an lt1 and net the same results. pat yourself on the back for that one!

jsup wrote:
Quote:

TPI-guy wrote:
Actually it's quite the opposite infact

Not with the right engine builder, now internet jockies it is actually quite routine. I just posted a couple examples where real builders can get it easily.
Quote:

It is done everyday on LSx stuff in a blink of the eye.

What's your point, what does this have to do with anything?

Quote:

Years ago, I build a 383 for my C4, and it dynoed 330rwhp. It was quite an eye opener.

So basically, you took internet advice and built a crappy combination and it didn't run worth a shit. GM crate engines with a crappy little cam and fast burn heads put down 400 CHP. I now see your problem. You get your advice from the interweb.Quote:

Remember the LS7 427 makes about 490-520 chp stock. One of the biggest reasons why it's so efficient and can pass emmisions with flying colours is because it has a very small cam with heads that flow 335cfm plus.

Where do you get this stuff? Are you sober when you write it? Are you from Canada? Just wondering...

Quote:

You went the other way, bigger cam, with much weaker flowing heads. Very much looking forward to seeing how the car performs. Last big stroker I saw was a 434 with a solid roller with 235cc heads, and stout compression. It made 515 rwhp which was a tad over 600chp.

Oh I see, you're one of those. Do us all a favor, don't give anyone advice here..

Let me get this straight, you SAW a 434 with heads...interesting. Nothing about the cam, tune, etc...it was all about head flow got it. That was a shitty combination if only put 600 HP. More evidence that internet advice is worth the paper is written on. Ask Pr0zac.

TPI-guy wrote:
Quote:

pr0zac wrote:
no way. an ls1 can make more power. get out of town. is that why a ls1 head flows very similar numbers to an lt4 head, yet it has 10 times the potential? i wonder why that is? might it be cause it has about half the valve angle not to mention a completely different design. but who cares about that. its all dry flow. who built that 402? and your 383? hell any idiot off the street could build a 330rwhp motor. you obviously did something wrong when you can drop a hotcam kit in an lt1 and net the same results. pat yourself on the back for that one!

I don't think we have met yet! But you seem some what ignorant with your comment about the 330rwhp! My 383 was built back in the mid 90's (infact 1996 if my memory is correct). It made 330rwhp, and over 400rwtq. I don't think there where too many idiot's building those combo's back then on street driven emmissions set-ups. The car would run in the 12's all day long, and was very respectable.

Like I said we don't know each other. But after reading a few of your posts, I would bet your in your 20's, and know it all. Back when my C4 was going 12's on a regular basis, you were in public school. I was going to answer your questions about whom built my motors, but you will probably tell me they were not built properly.

TPI-guy wrote


I am one of what?

pr0zac wrote:
yes. i am 29 and still wet behind the ears. yet the cc305, cc306 and the hotcam were available which should make that mark with ease in a stock headed stock bottom end lt1, no?

jsup wrote:
Quote:

TPI-guy wrote


I am one of what?

One of those people who say "I know a guy who had a real fast car and had great flowing heads".....as if the fast was all because of the heads. I call them leghumpers. Ya know, someone who spouts off useless figures as if they have any bearing on performance.

Do me a favor, do not start a head thread here, I've been through it, and the following are all urban legends:

1. Exhaust flow plays a big role
2. Small runner with bigger flow is always better

and more.

So one of those refers to the catalog reading ill informed who perpetuate bad information across the internet.

I could be wrong, and I hope I stand corrected, but not as that post I cited as evidence.

Again, I plead for the forum, don't make me start a head thread chock full of facts and concepts that you will not be able to argue, and concede that these pre conceived notions you are perpetuating are wrong.

Just from your posts I will bet $100 that you own, or you recommend a particular brand of head....want me to guess which?

TPI-guy wrote:
Quote:

jsup wrote:
Quote:

TPI-guy wrote


I am one of what?

One of those people who say "I know a guy who had a real fast car and had great flowing heads".....as if the fast was all because of the heads. I call them leghumpers. Ya know, someone who spouts off useless figures as if they have any bearing on performance.

Do me a favor, do not start a head thread here, I've been through it, and the following are all urban legends:

1. Exhaust flow plays a big role
2. Small runner with bigger flow is always better

and more.

So one of those refers to the catalog reading ill informed who perpetuate bad information across the internet.

I could be wrong, and I hope I stand corrected, but not as that post I cited as evidence.

Again, I plead for the forum, don't make me start a head thread chock full of facts and concepts that you will not be able to argue, and concede that these pre conceived notions you are perpetuating are wrong.

Just from your posts I will bet $100 that you own, or you recommend a particular brand of head....want me to guess which?

Sorry. I dont know what you are getting at. I own 3 Corvette's, and they are all modified. I have been racing for many, many years. I call it when I see it.

I don't have a clue who you are, but you are making quite the impression. I heard from a few guys that you made the same impression on another forum as well.

TPI-guy wrote:
Quote:

jsup wrote:
Quote:

TPI-guy wrote


I am one of what?

One of those people who say "I know a guy who had a real fast car and had great flowing heads".....as if the fast was all because of the heads. I call them leghumpers. Ya know, someone who spouts off useless figures as if they have any bearing on performance.

Do me a favor, do not start a head thread here, I've been through it, and the following are all urban legends:

1. Exhaust flow plays a big role
2. Small runner with bigger flow is always better

and more.

So one of those refers to the catalog reading ill informed who perpetuate bad information across the internet.

I could be wrong, and I hope I stand corrected, but not as that post I cited as evidence.

Again, I plead for the forum, don't make me start a head thread chock full of facts and concepts that you will not be able to argue, and concede that these pre conceived notions you are perpetuating are wrong.

Just from your posts I will bet $100 that you own, or you recommend a particular brand of head....want me to guess which?

Sorry. I dont know what you are getting at. I own 3 Corvette's, and they are all modified. I have been racing for many, many years. I call it when I see it.

I don't have a clue who you are, but you are making quite the impression. I heard from a few guys that you made the same impression on another forum as well.

pr0zac wrote:

I don't have a clue who you are, but you are making quite the impression. I heard from a few guys that you made the same impression on another forum as well.tehn why are you going to come in here and shake a beehive? if you have a problem with him, i have an answer, don't post a pissing contest in his thread.

jsup wrote:
Quote:

TPI-guy wrote:
Quote:

jsup wrote:
Quote:

TPI-guy wrote


I am one of what?

One of those people who say "I know a guy who had a real fast car and had great flowing heads".....as if the fast was all because of the heads. I call them leghumpers. Ya know, someone who spouts off useless figures as if they have any bearing on performance.

Do me a favor, do not start a head thread here, I've been through it, and the following are all urban legends:

1. Exhaust flow plays a big role
2. Small runner with bigger flow is always better

and more.

So one of those refers to the catalog reading ill informed who perpetuate bad information across the internet.

I could be wrong, and I hope I stand corrected, but not as that post I cited as evidence.

Again, I plead for the forum, don't make me start a head thread chock full of facts and concepts that you will not be able to argue, and concede that these pre conceived notions you are perpetuating are wrong.

Just from your posts I will bet $100 that you own, or you recommend a particular brand of head....want me to guess which?

Sorry. I dont know what you are getting at. I own 3 Corvette's, and they are all modified. I have been racing for many, many years. I call it when I see it.

I don't have a clue who you are, but you are making quite the impression. I heard from a few guys that you made the same impression on another forum as well.

Yes, I do make an impression. Thank you. I'm actually fairly simple to figure out, I am not an enigma. If someone makes a particular claim I expect it to be supported by science, not anecdotal evidence that "I know a guy"....just sayin'..


Perhaps I was wrong, and jumping the gun, but we'll see. Just understand the four words that drive me up the wall are "port size" and "flow numbers" as they have little bearing on choosing the right head for a particular application. When you made the comment "and they even had better flowing heads"....my leghumper radar went nuts. You can understand that can you, since the statement was utter bullshit in the context in which it was presented..with no real particulars on the engine other than flow numbers, no point was made...

So if I had a hair trigger, I apologize, time will tell..

I have a suspicion my hunch is right.

TPI-guy wrote:

I was just wondering how that combo would make those stout numbers. That's all. Sorry if I pissed you off Jsup.

anesthes wrote:
So is the trans fixed yet?

Dyno the car?


-- Joe

Notorious wrote:

DropTopCE wrote:
Hey Bogus, how many times are you allowed to say shit in one thread?