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| jsup | Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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First off, I'm ready for the ration of shit I'll probably get for posting this....No, I am not "bragging" this is a serious question.
I took the car out last night and I was doing 68 MPH. I put the pedal down and the tires went loose and the ass went sideways before I let off the pedal. I'm not even done with the tune, and I can't keep the back wheels planted, at any speed, actually makes me a bit nervous. The second it downshifts, the tires break. Today, at 45 I put it down, same thing. And at 55, and at 65. When the tune is done, it's only going to get worse. The motor buzzes up like a two cycle weed wacker when the tires let go. Is this typical? I have no idea what kind of power we're talking, as the tune isn't done and there's no dyno number yet. The tires are BFGs about 3 years old with less than 5000 miles. Even new they look like slicks with few lines in them. I didn't buy the tires, the previous owner did, about 1000 miles before I purchased the car. Am I doing something wrong? Seriously very unsettling to feel the ass go sideways at 60MPH...and 50, and 40. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/7 23:50
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| cuisinartvette | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Are you shifting from D to R and not realizing it?
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Posted on: 2008/12/7 23:56
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| PeteK | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Sounds typical to me. Especially since the converter is looser. It lets it flash into the power band, and the power band is strong.
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Posted on: 2008/12/7 23:56
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Quote:
Thanks Pete. This converter, although built by the same company as my old one, and only 200RPMs higher, feels very different. Maybe that's it. Is there a way to correct this? Not really desirable to me. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/7 23:58
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| bogus | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Yes. You are putting a shit load of power through tires not able to handle it.
A couple of thoughts... 1) You do not need anymore gear in that car. 2) If you don't have them, beam plates can't hurt... 3) What TYPE of BFG are they? It's cold as hell out in your part of the world, with that, sticky summer tires turn rock hard. If they are all season BFGs (think KDW vs KD), then they won't help at all. I would think you need a stickier tire to help contain that power. Don't even think about drag racing this animal until you get something to help with traction... If you don't have them, consider upgrading to the 11.5" rear rim. This is the catch-22 of too much power: You need more traction and you don't have a stout enough drive line to support it. Hence, you add drag radials, you kill the D36, follow? So... D44 with 3.07 gears and you should be ok. Any more gear and that car will be wholly undriveable. DO NOT EVER DRIVE THIS CAR IN THE RAIN OR SNOW. Unless, of course, you want to die. Seriously. You now know what cold and dry does, you don't want wet. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/7 23:58
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| PeteK | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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It may a wee bit more than 200 rpm higher. Also, if the clutchpacks in the old trans were slipping, you may not have gotten the true feeling in the last converter.
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Posted on: 2008/12/7 23:59
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| PeteK | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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A tighter converter would help it on the shifts. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:01
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Thanks Andy, it was 38 Degrees today. I am switching to a D44 compliments of Livin' the Dream in April. He wants my D36, so I'm not going to beat the shit out of it..have to make sure it's in good shape for him. The D44 is a 3.08, close enough. I'm also going to do the 10 link suspension kit from Blowerworks when I switch the rear. Tires and rims are a bit out. Budget and all... |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:01
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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This is a 1.69 TSD? I forget the term but it is 1.69. The other option was 2.69 which according to performabuilt would be harder to drive. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:03
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Quote:
Good point. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:04
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| pianoguy | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Guru Emeritus
 
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Tell you what - I'll trade you for the engine in my wife's Jeep Liberty - you won't have any more problems with breaking the tires loose ;-)
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:09
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| PeteK | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Wait until it is worked out, and has the 3.07 dana 44 and a set of drag radials. At Englishtown, it will pull the wheels 6 inches or more. Should 60' in the 1.4 range.
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:13
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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Ooops, to answer the question Andy the tires are BFG KD- "GFORCE TA's"
I couldn't spin the tires with my L98, and barely with my head/cam/Super Ram build. They seem pretty sticky. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:20
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Guys, what Andy said....If I go to an 11.5" or 12" rim in the rear, how much do you guys think that will help? Consider I'll put the widest available tire on it.
Now, will C5 brakes fit under some 17" wheels? I believe they will, I really see no need to go to 18 and screw up my speedo and such. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:32
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| BeachBum | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Master Guru
 
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With my old 383, I too was breaking the tires away at all sorts of speed dependant on the temp and road surface. Believe it or not, the car was actually safer when I drove around on my ET streets, they grabbed so much better and you just went straight and hard after a small initial wheel scrub. I recommend you invest in them.... drag radials will also help, but, they too can and will spin hard. The advantage to the ET streets is the recovery is so much quicker than drag radials.
The true joy of spending all of this money on power as many of us do is the "acceleration", and you might not ever get to truly experience your motors true performance without a set of sticky's. I highly recommend them. Not to mention, you'll et wayyyy quicker at the track as well. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:41
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
The temp was 38 degrees, two different road surfaces, concrete and black top. Both in good condition. Yes it does exist in NJ. I'll start looking at the ET Streets, rims, and tires I guess. I would really love to keep the stock rims...I am concerned that may not be realistic for two reasons. 1.width 2. Diameter...won't fit C5 brakes. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 0:46
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| BeachBum | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
There is the 26" x 16" ET street that fit "perfectly" on any of the early 84-87 rims, which can be picked up at minimal cost. They had two rims, I think one was an 8.5" and the other 9.5", or it could have been 9 and 10, do not remember, but regardless, you want the wider one, but the ET street will work on either. But, I have no idea if they will fit on C5 brakes, probably not..... if they don't, I recommend you keep an open eye on ebay for the Weld XP rims with a 4.5" to 5.5" backspace. Weld doesn't make the XP series anymore, but they are out there used, just have to look for them. The XP's can fit, they were designed to clear late model brakes and I have lended them to a friend with a C5, they clear, albeit with less than 1/4" to spare, they work great. Your only problem with the Weld XP's if you find them on ebay.... is that you'll be bidding against me for them.  |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:00
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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How bad do you want them? :tongue1: If I go for new rims, it's going to be as wide as I can go, 11.5 or 12 like Andy said. Maybe I can pick up a set of 1990 ZR1 wheels as an interim step. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:03
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| BeachBum | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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I made the mistake of selling mine to get some different weld rims several years ago... I want them, I check for them every week on ebay & racingjunk.... I'll be all over them when they appear. Half the problem is that many do not know what they have and just advertise them as Weld Draglites or Prostars..... when they are actually XP's. So, I suspect in many cases, they are there, I just do not know it.
The good news, I just need a pair for the rear. With the front, you can run Weld's ET skinnie 15 x 3.5" rim with a host of tires such as MT ET front or there are a variety of radials available for them as well. They will clear anything because they do not protrude into the brakes..... but you only need those if you plan on doing some significant racing. They'll give you roughly a tenth improvement in et and mph..... but they also help with consistency at the track due to less weight on the front, so a better weight transfer to the rear. Another benefit of the skinny is that your car will drive straight at high speed. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:15
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| dan0617 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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You know me, the budget minded solution finder. Here is a few ideas for you that have worked like a charm for me.
1. Unbolt the front sway bar. It will let the front end lift, transferring weight to the rear wheels quicker. Does worlds of good at the track, helps a decent amount on the street when hitting WOT from a roll. Kind of gives the effect of softer front shocks which I like the feel of. You might too. If you run it a while this way and decide you like it, you can remove the sway bar completely to take out some weight from the front of the car. 2. Have the rear aligned with about 1/2 to 3/4 of a degree of postitive camber with the gas tank full. When you nail it, the rear squats. The tires are normally flat, then when it squats the tires are no longer flat on the road surface. With the positive camber, the tires will be flat when the rear squats. This will wear the tires unevenly during normal driving but if you only drive 1 or 2 thousand miles a year or so, you will never notice. 3. Keep the gas tank full all the time. 4. Drag radials or ET streets on the back. I run Nitto 555R's (275/40/17) at 22 lbs. I should have bought 315's since I know I'll need more traction with my new engine too. No experience with the ET streets but I heard they are even better than the Nittos. 5. Might want to put some QA1 adjustable shocks on it, front and rear, but I'd try 1 thru 4 first since the qa1's are so expensive. Anytime the outside temp is less than about 45 degrees I can't get my car to dead hook on launch, but once it is above that she dead hooks. Not saying yours will dead hook, just saying that I notice a big difference in traction when the temps are cold. Also the little bit of salt dust that is on the roads in this area this time of year is a huge traction killer. You may also have to adjust the driving style some. It is possible that you are making so much torque and your converter is putting you right in that torque so that you cannot nail it to the floor unless you did a big smoky burnout to heat the tires first. If that is the case, you might have to get in the habit of rolling into the gas no matter what speed you are going. That is what I'd do till you get the "problem" solved. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:24
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| cuisinartvette | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
THeres a guy on CF ZR1 or 4 sale sectioni that has a set, hes out here. Look on the ZR1 registry also they pop up from time to time. A set of 11" rears with a sticky tire would be the way to go. Sticking with street radials at this point is unsafe |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:28
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Is handling funny with sticky tires? NO budget for rims/tires right now. Just trying to get the tune finished and the rear in for april. Maybe this time next year for rims/tires. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:40
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| dan0617 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Senior Guru
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I noticed no handling difference whatsoever when I went from regular old radials to Nitto 555R drag radials. The only difference I noticed at all is that the rear rides a little softer, which in my (and my wife's) opinions it rode too harsh before anyway. I only run 22 psi in the Nittos which helps contribute to the soft ride, if I pump them up to 40 psi the ride is not quite as soft but the traction isn't quite as good either. But as far as handling, no difference. The Nitto's are wearing nicely too, about 3,000 miles on them and quite a few big smoky burnouts and they still look almost like new.
I know you don't have the budget for rims/tires, but you could watch on camaroz28.com for sale section for a pair of Nitto's used. They go for pretty cheap. Unbolt the front sway bar for free, let the PSI down in your current tires for free, put the positive camber in when you put the new rear in and align it. That should help you quite a bit right there. Put a used pair of Nittos on when you can get about $150 or so to spend. Save up for wider rims/tires next year. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:50
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| BeachBum | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Yes, with ET streets the cornering is best described as wobbly. Bias ply tire with very little sidewall strength.... but you'll hook your power up in a straight line. Its a give and take thing....
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:51
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Get out your slippers and let your ol' lady drive it. That should cure any issues.
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:53
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| BeachBum | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
As a note, for many years I ran BFG drag radials and then Nitto drag radials, went back and forth a couple of times.... the BFG's worked better at the track, but the Nitto's lasted longer. But, that was 8-10 years ago, I know technology changes.... and maybe they have too. I agree on the ride.... they're good for cornering, but they do ride a little softer, which in my opinion is a good thing. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 1:53
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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This is primarily a street car, hence my questions about ride and sticky tires, how will all that play on the street? |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 2:10
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| dan0617 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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My car is 99.999999999% street driven. Wifey and I go out on the weekends with it, take my son to ball practice, cruise around with the top down every chance I get. Only been to a track once with it and that was just at the end of this past year. All my advice in my posts pertain to street use. It works great at the track as long as I heat the tires good. Unbolting the front sway bar makes the front end ride alot softer and gives the car a little more body roll in the corners but I like it. If I were autocrossing or road racing I'd have to put it back in but I like it on the street and love it at the track. The nittos handle great on the back and I like the softer ride. The positive camber alignment on the rear won't affect anything that you will notice during handling on the street other than it will stay hooked up alot better when you mash the gas.
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 2:25
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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What about 555R's?
Great on a road course, a little less stick in the 1/4 though. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 2:30
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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I think if I'm going to spend for tires, I'll wait a little longer and spring for rims too. In that scenario, I'll go as wide as I can, AND with stickies. I thought the KDs were pretty sticky, no? |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 2:44
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| 88BlackZ51 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Car sounds like it's running good. Congrats!
1st off, Aren't you running a 275 on the rear? You easily have over 500chp now and that tire is weak especially with the cold asphalt. Even with 245rwhp/335rwtq, I could spin my 275's in those conditions into 2nd gear with ease. Time to step it up. There is a safety factor that you need to think about after spending all that money. I personally wouldn't get ZR-1 rims as they stick out and look like shit. If you are wanting the 17's, go with the 17x11's (GS offset) with a good 315 that has soft rubber. I would look at the 555R's if they come in the 315's. Also don't be ashamed to post this stuff. I actually like when ppl get there cars together and post about it. It's all interesting stuff. I would get a drag radial! Like you said you are only going to drive the car for a few miles a year! Just get some wider tires/rims and be done with it. So is the power everything you thought it would be? How does it feel? |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 2:47
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| 88BlackZ51 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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The only thing that will work will be drag radials if you want some grip! Do they make KD's in 315's? I have had Nitto drag radials/Kumho MX, and now the 615's. So far the 615's have been the best for a long shot for overall, and very grippy at the autocross. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 2:54
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| bogus | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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according to the tire rack, apparently not.
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 3:18
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| 88BlackZ51 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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For street tires I would look at the Goodyear F1 Supercar tires if you can somehow find them. I have a few friends with 550rwhp-595rwhp ZR-1's, and they seem to hold up pretty good. I am not sure if you can still get them however. Short of that look at the Falken RT-615's. They are a tire that alot of auto x guys run. http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm It looks like you would have to step it up to 18's for the 615's however. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 3:25
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Extra set of rims is the way to go.
I went that way and really recommend it. 1) it avoids driving around on tires that aren't really meant for daily driving 2) You have tires that can take on water when you need it 3) It's actually CHEAPER. You can put a set of cheap DD tires on you stock rims, and a set of races tires on your alternate rims (racing tires are not as expensive as you think) and still come out saving over mega $$$ street rims that can't touch racing rims. BTW if you use a SLICK vs a road racing or drag radial, you WILL kill not just your D36, but your subaxles as well. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 3:25
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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Thanks for all the input. I have some questions.
I need a tire I can drive around on as a street tire 99% of the time, and go to the track once in the while. I think going WIDE is the solution. Comments? The other reality is that I WILL have to upgrade the brakes. THEREFORE, If I go rims, I'll probably HAVE TO go 18s to stay safe. I also like the look of the shallow rims in front with deeper dish rims in the back, so I'll look for that. Anyway, I digress. Do you guys think the correct course of action here is: 1. Rims, wide as possible in the back, stock in front. 9.5. I have 9.5s all the way around. Any suggestion on 11.5, 12 inch rims I should put on my wish list? 2. Tires, good sticky street tires, which ones? Even Drag Radials if they handle well on the street. Remember, I want to drive around on the street in these. Of course all after doing the rear. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 3:37
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| 88BlackZ51 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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It all depends if you care about looks. A 12 inch rim will stick out, and it looks like a 78 Trans-am.
You could go with some 18's, and then get some C5 brakes. You will need to upgrade your 12" brakes anyways right? Just don't copy my o.e. Z06 rims.  |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 3:41
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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My tires are 12in wide, all 4, and they don't stick out as much as you think
[IMG]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/swiftwood/BayStateCorvetteClub/members/Brian%20Cunningham/bigmeats8.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 4:06
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| bogus | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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I think the Goodyear F1s would work. They are available in 315 width.
The key to width is the offset. If the offset is right, they won't stick out. Remember this: High performance dry weather tires are NOT designed for cold weather. They get hard and bad things DO happen. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 5:22
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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Hey Brian, do you have the specs on your rims? Offset, diameter, etc....
They do look good. And if it's not too much trouble, can you tell me who makes rims 18X12 with the right offset. My initial search seems hard to find. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 12:48
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| mseven | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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if you get a good fresh set of 10"or 10.5 dr's, either mt et's or the m&h version they will have good bite using a 9 1/2" rim. Even w/the last motor I was able to melt the 285 kd's from a roll, and w/this motor under normal accelaration they would spin, shifts under 20mph. etc........not any more.
unfortunately, the 17's (in 295, 325, and 345)will not be available again until around february |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 13:26
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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How are those for driving around town and on the highway?
The reason I'm looking at rims is because I'll need them for new brakes at some point in the future. No point of buying tires I'm not going to use some point in the future. I hate spending money twice and swapping parts. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 14:06
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| mseven | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Senior Guru
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That's all I leave on the car now, and are fine around town. They will feel a little spongier (as all dr's will be), due to the lighter constrcution. I have not been on the eway, but been at eway speeds and feel comfortable. They probably won't like hammering corners no matter what, but there isn't any other DOT street tire I know of that gives as much bite. With the 10" dr it will have little effect in rim swap, if fact using a 17 rim has less sidewall deflection. Either way, guys at the track here making way more power than me are using the 10 or 10.5 dr.(classes for the DOT tire, not just the 10'slick) with great sucess. Do some searches on the 10" tire class stuff, you will be surprised.
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 14:21
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Is there any big difference between the 17 and 18 inch rims? As far as those tires are concerned?
I don't know if brakes will fit under my stock rims.... If I need new rims to clear the brakes, no point in buying tires to fit these rims. I'll just wait it out. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 15:04
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| dan0617 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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I sure wish I could get 3 pages of replies full of answers when I post a question.
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 17:01
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| JDSWHITE93 | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Maybe I just don't know how to drive. I have yet to get anything that even remotely resembles traction on the street in first or second gear and you have alot more motor than I do.
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 20:48
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| Calm | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Quote:
Well, jsup's more needy. :binky: |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 21:01
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Quote:
Happens when it downshifts from 4th to 3rd too. When I get 1/2 way into the throttle, the motor gets a raspy tone and that's it, it's over, no traction regardless of the gear. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 22:00
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| jsup | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
I'm that pathetic huh?....  |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 22:03
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| Notorious | Re: Driving Impressions today | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Quote:
Overall, for straight ahead traction you'll be better off with 17" wheels, reason being that assuming you're maintaining close to stock tire circumference, you'll end up with a little more sidewall using 17s. Also there's a better selection of tires in 17" and they're significantly cheaper than 18s. Although some factory 17" wheels have a clearance problem with C5 front brakes, as far as I know, you shouldn't have any problem with aftermarket wheels. In fact, although my '95 sawblades don't clear my ZO6 front brakes, once at an event I borrowed some race tires mounted on earlier Corvette 17" wheels that cleared the brakes fine. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/8 22:59
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