Dana 36 Guru's step inside [Forums - C4 Technical]

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#51
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Quote: jhammons01 wrote: Sadly, you can grab that short shaft and wriggle it with your hand...the other one is tight...not that I'll allow it stay...."while your in there"...... Oh come on, we knew that 3 months ago. As far as work without pulling the diff, that won't happen. Even if you were able to pull the yoke out, you won't be able to fix the slop. Take your entire pumpkin out and either buy a new one or have that one rebuilt with some 3.33s "while you're in there". You're looking at about $500+ to have it rebuilt with new gears assuming you pull it out of the car yourself. The batwing is the cover. So the only way to gain access to the inside of the diff is to remove it. It's actually much easier than it looks. You can use a floor jack under it, but I'd recommend a cheap transmission jack from Harbor Freight. You'll need a second jack of some sort , or maybe just a block, to hold the Cbeam+trans+motor assembly up. If you leave all that weight hanging off the motor mounts you'll break your distributor. Are you going to do the trans at the same time? Buy 88black's 4+3. OH OH....I remember!! I thought you had a way to read what I was typing before I posted it....you freaked me out...then I remember I left you a voice mail asking that question.... So yeah, you basically answered my question for me. I'm not sure about rebuilding the D36 just yet. That's $500 versus $60 for two bearings.
	Posted on: 2009/6/8 17:40

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#52
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	and the 4x3 thing, I am thinking I should pull that "while in there" and at least uncouple the two and replace that seal.
	Posted on: 2009/6/8 17:42

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#53
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Pull the entire D36. You're already 2 cbeam bolts away from it with the method you mentioned, and you're going to pretzel yourself trying to get that c-clip out while under the car. I was never able to track down that seal. There was a place in NY that supposedly stocked the parts, or maybe a different shop they sold their inventory too. I didn't try to hard either, but that seal looks like a bitch to replace. It has a metal-clad shell and I'm not sure how it comes out. Maybe it requires removing the front plate of the OD or something, which might send the clutch springs flying everywhere.
	Posted on: 2009/6/8 17:52
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#54
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	There is SK and then that guy in Florida that sold all the stuff to SK. So you are suggesting to buy another 4x3 and run it? you remember you had a picture of your Overdrive?
	Posted on: 2009/6/8 18:19

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#55
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	My suggestion is to buy a 12-pack of satin Krylon and masking tape and put the car on ebay for $3K. But a 4+3, assuming it works, will be your easiest way to get it back on the road. I'd even go shopping for a used pumpkin. Guys ditch their D36s when they upgrade, but many have tall 2.56 or 2.73s. It'll be harder to find one with a 3.07 or shorter.
	Posted on: 2009/6/8 19:28
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#56
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	LOL.....you love my ride and you know it. And hell there is not much more to address in this car..why sell it now?? you keep saying to get another D36....why? I can put two bearings into a rear end that is other wise working fine. and that Tranny, I may allow it to leak for a while. Now that I have a nice jack, I'm no longer having issues getting up under there, so maintenance is becoming much easier...not to mention the knowledge is starting to make everything seem a lot easier as well.
	Posted on: 2009/6/8 20:21

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#57
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	You'll need a helluva pair of snapring pliers to remove the clips, and I don't know if there's more to it with the posi in there or what else you'll run into. I envision you at least pulling both stubaxles out in order to remove the carrier to get to the bearings. TIMKEN Part # DRK338 is about $100 for the entire rebuild kit or... http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1041196,parttype,2240 I don't know what the deal is with 1st design or 2nd design. I would check how early your VIN# is and take a wild guess.
	Posted on: 2009/6/8 22:34
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#58
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: But a 4+3, assuming it works, will be your easiest way to get it back on the road. I'd even go shopping for a used pumpkin. Guys ditch their D36s when they upgrade, but many have tall 2.56 or 2.73s. It'll be harder to find one with a 3.07 or shorter. A) What gears do you think are in there now?? B) Shorter gear...what will that do for me?? Get out of the hole quicker?
	Posted on: 2009/6/13 3:48

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Livin_the_dream	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#59
Senior Guru robesonia , pa 516 Posts Member since: 2007/12/3 0:00	it should be stamped on the bottom of the rear. if you think someone has changed the gears, turn the driveshaft yoke and count how many turns it takes to turn the axle yoke once. if its less than 3 turns it is a 2 something
	Posted on: 2009/6/13 11:59

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#60
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Sorry I was getting your thread mixed up with flashmans. You would have either 3.07 or 3.33 in yours.
	Posted on: 2009/6/13 18:21
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#61
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	OK....well what will changing the Gears do for me? It already is pretty stout out of the hole.... It needs HP as everyone seems to pass me in third gear
	Posted on: 2009/6/13 18:46

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#62
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	3.07s or 3.33s are good. I wouldn't change that.
	Posted on: 2009/6/13 22:25
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#63
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Well, the D36 is sitting in the driveway with Engine Bright all over it... Not to bad of a job at all
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 1:00

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#64
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	All clean now....should I just crack it open?
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 1:38

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Matatk	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#65
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22803 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Quote: jhammons01 wrote: All clean now....should I just crack it open? How else ya gonna rebuild it Unbolt the batwing and should come apart easily, I think I used a deadblow hammer and gave it a light tap. Drain it first the best you can. Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 1:58
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#66
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	LOL, you are going to laugh...but I did as you said. Five bolts and gave it a single tap with a rubber hammer and it came open. Here is where My ignorance gives you a chuckle, I can see were to drain it or where to fill it....LOL So I did have the good sense to put it in a plastic tub prior to cracking it open....I guess as I try to get that bearing out of it...I'll see the drain/fill hole.
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 2:03

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#67
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	So I see the plastic cap on the top of the batwing....problem solved as far as fill and drain... Here is the deal, I'm trying to remove that snap ring. From what I've read it is the way to remove the stub shaft...we'll see soon. I'm going to Kragen to get that snap ring plier
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 2:25

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#68
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	OK, the ring from hell is off and the Stub shaft came right out....there is that oil seal.....how does that come out?? pry it out??
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 4:39

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Matatk	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#69
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22803 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Quote: jhammons01 wrote: OK, the ring from hell is off and the Stub shaft came right out....there is that oil seal.....how does that come out?? pry it out?? I've never changed one so I'm not 100%. Any pics? When I changed the rear seal on the trans which is just a press fit (but tight) I used a pair of vice grips and kinda rolled it out with zero damage to the case. Might that work? Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 11:36
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#70
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Not sure, I tried a large screwdriver but no luck...I'll try some different things
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 16:04

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#71
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	OBTW, it is a 3.07 gear. After cleaning everything I could see where it was etched.
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 17:46

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#72
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Alright just for future reference. I went to Pep boys and bought a "seal puller" that "Pops the seal out every time" and it basically destroyed it and I wound out using a hammer and chisel to get the rest of it out. So, Hammer and chisel and it takes 3-4 minutes......once again wondering and searching for an answer for 10 hours when it takes 10 minutes to actually complete the task. But now....The bearing is pressed into place...now I need a bearing puller.....
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 20:20

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#73
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Bearing won't come out....screw it I give up.
	Posted on: 2009/6/14 21:24

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#74
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Here it is hours later...still no answers
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 0:54

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Matatk	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#75
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22803 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Quote: jhammons01 wrote: Bearing won't come out....screw it I give up. Can I see a pic of where it is? Is it completely covered by the case from the outside? Can you get a large socket on it and tap from the outside in? Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 1:32
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#76
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Sure! give me ten minutes.
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 1:52

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#77
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	here is a few pics Attach file: D36 pic 1.jpg (69.67 KB) D36 pic 2.jpg (69.20 KB) D36 Pic 3.jpg (82.38 KB)
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 2:21

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#78
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	What you are seeing in those pics...... 1) you are looking down the Stub shaft hole....the Oil seal is removed and you can see the roller bearings 2) you are seeing the inside where the actual LSD is sitting. I can't get to it from the inside as this is in the way 3) you see the other side where the roller pin bearing is destroyed and only the outer race remains
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 2:23

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Matatk	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#79
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22803 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Hmmmm.....so the bearing can be pulled from the outside without any type of lip or interference? You might be better off just buying a cheap bearing removal tool. I forgot you were leaving all the guts inside the pumpkin so you can't just knock it in/out. I don't have many other ideas here. Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 2:29
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#80
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Yeah, the cheap bearing tool was tried.....it did not go down in there far enough. I took those large journal covers off. What happens if I pull that large thing out?? springs and stuff fly?? and it seems to be stuck in there....
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 2:33

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#81
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	If you've got the snap ring off on both sides then you should be able to pull both axles then remove the carrier. Pics aren't showing up well for me because I'm on my phone.
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 6:30
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#82
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	The large black gear unit it is "the Carrier"?
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 13:53

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#83
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	The piece containing the ring gear and spider gears.
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 14:31
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#84
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	How did you get yours out?? Some say there is a case spreader
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 14:56

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#85
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Alright, here is the skinny..... First off, yes the Carrier has to come out. Take the two journals off then just stick a crowbar in there and pry it out......couldn't take more than 10 seconds Then, take a punch or a large socket that fits the bearing, And hammer them "INWARD" Problem solved. Again, another situation where knowledge completely makes a monkey out of me. How did I figure all this out?? J&S Gear 18222 Gothard Huntington Beach Ca (714) 841-4545 John is the guys name.....and one of those that waste no time listening to your problem....He grabbed the D36 and had it in the vice in a just over 3 minutes......He had the carrier and two bearings out. Not only that, He has the replacement parts in stock. he looked at the LSD carrier and told me that it looks just fine and would not recommend rebuilding it at this time. So, For $151......Two bearings and all three seals replaced.....He would have had it all done while I waited but he had to order ONE bearing 'cause I had "the old style" and He only had one left. Really really cool guy. I love shops like that....NO BS!!! NO GUESSING....NO FORMS to fill out.....hand shake and great service.
	Posted on: 2009/6/15 18:07

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#86
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Lol, usually they charge you extra when you take a box of parts in. That happened to me, but it was because the first shop I went to stole my replacement parts. That was TOP FLIGHT CORVETTE in San Diego. Lawton is the owner and he's a lying thief. (Had to put that in here for anyone doing a search.)
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 0:33
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#87
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	^^This guy is just down the street from Woody's where we had Hamburgers...
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 4:25

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#88
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Just a quick follow up. Our new friend is a GM Master Technician of over 25 years. He spent his years at Connell Chevy in Costa Mesa...Earned the Gold Level Tech (top 50 in the country) then the Platinum level (top 25)... He used to teach the GM courses on.....Differentials ...He bought this shop three years ago. He had my D36 as promised "this morning" He cleaned the whole thing, checked every bearing for tolerances checked the gears for matching up. All is fine, put it back in.... Attach file: D36 Ring.jpg (70.07 KB) D36 Snap Ring Pliers.jpg (73.41 KB) D36 Snap Ring Pliers 1.jpg (69.19 KB) D36 Snap Ring Pliers 2.jpg (48.63 KB) D36 Snap Ring Pliers 3.jpg (74.83 KB) Dana 36 Rebuild 007.jpg (73.11 KB) Dana 36 Rebuild 008.jpg (71.05 KB) Dana 36 Rebuild 010.jpg (60.46 KB) Dana 36 Rebuild 011.jpg (82.66 KB)
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 20:33

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#89
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	What are you seeing up there?? First you see that the gear die means that the gears are all matching up properly. The a few pictures of the Snap ring pliers that I modified with a dremmel to fit those snap rings. Then I show you the two stub shaft seals...the new bearings are inside there. Next the front "pinion" seal (nice and new...no leaks for me) Then an over view of the whole D36.
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 20:36

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Matatk	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#90
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22803 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	I'm almost as relieved as you are that this thing is over! Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 22:57
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#91
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Well that's awesome. I was outmatched trying to get the snap ring off with those same pliers.
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 23:11
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#92
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	^^After I beat them a bit....I knew there was not taking them back for credit.....I decided that I'd modify them to do the job I bought them for. I dremmeled the tips so that they would go further inside the holes and then I bent them so that they were at an angle where the ring wouldn't just slip off.....I could have done a bit more on it to make it work really well...but it got the ring started and then as Pete posted...I used a screwdriver and rotated the thing around chasing it off. I'm doing the RTV for the Batwing right now
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 23:26

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#93
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Quote: Matatk wrote: I'm almost as relieved as you are that this thing is over! Matthew What? My frustration and multiple post are starting to show through?? LOL Seems the D36 is not the topic of choice for many..... Sadly, the Master Tech scoffed at how many subscribe to the "switch it out to a D44" advice. He said that the D36 is like anything else....you have 70k miles on it....then drop a 383 in your vette..then the D36 breaks...shocker.... He pointed out that the D36 if properly maintained (AKA not having 1000s of miles on a 20+ component) it will stand up just fine...even when much larger HP is added to the motor.
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 23:31

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#94
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	If you haven't passed this step already, I'd recommend dimpling/divoting the batwing cover sealing surface. This helps hold the RTV in place. This can be done with a nail or punch and a hammer. My diff had literally no RTV on parts of it, the synthetic fluid washed some of it out and only dirt was keeping the fluid in. Also use "The Right Stuff" and don't use a gasket. If you've already got it bolted together, don't worry about it.
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 23:52
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#95
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Quote: jhammons01 wrote: He pointed out that the D36 if properly maintained (AKA not having 1000s of miles on a 20+ component) it will stand up just fine...even when much larger HP is added to the motor. Yeah, well until that happens your Dana 36 won't be seeing more than 175 horsepower, or maybe 2,000 ft-lbs of torque.
	Posted on: 2009/6/16 23:54
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#96
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Also use "The Right Stuff" and don't use a gasket. If you've already got it bolted together, don't worry about it. Dammit, that is the name I was looking for...I was trying to remember and I looked....from 2-3:30 my kids running around "daddy Daddy daddy"......I couldn't concentrate. I wound up using the Blue RTV prior to reading your post. The Batwing is back on.....I couldn't find torque specs or tightening sequence for the 6 bolts on the batwing.
	Posted on: 2009/6/17 5:44

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CentralCoaster	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#97
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Hmm, you can search online, torque specs are fairly generic. They are dependent on fastener size and whether its threading into steel or alum. (BTW I'm an idiot.)
	Posted on: 2009/6/17 6:48
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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Matatk	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#98
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22803 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Shoulda checked my post! 23 ft-lbs. http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules/ ... ASC&type=&mode=0&start=20 Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/6/17 11:40
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#99
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Yup you are right...sorry about that...and I did read it in the past..... I'm going to review that whole thread
	Posted on: 2009/6/17 14:13

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jhammons01	Re: Dana 36 Guru's step inside	#100
Senior Guru 1044 Posts Member since: 2007/10/29 0:00	Stolen from your thread.... *all rights belong to Matatk..blah blah blah legal legal BSBS
	Posted on: 2009/6/17 14:21

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