Originally designed by John Lingenfelter at LPE and manufactured by Accell, the SuperRam was the 1st aftermarket intake to improve upon the stock lon...
I had no direct affiliation with any of the head manufactures at that point in time.
Now let me get this straight:
1. AFR paid for the dyno run. 2. Tony was at the dyno run, with the picture to document. 3. you were SELECTED by Tony to participate in this "experiment" 4. You got a significant discount on the product for your participation. 5. The heads were provided directly from the manufacturer directly for this test not off the shelf from some reseller. 6. AFR did all the flow numbers and testing on your Darts and cast iron heads, right? That's where you got all the numbers from isn't it? 7. Tony says we have "more" tests coming out soon. So I guess this was part of the AFR test cycle as it seems the reference to "more" would indicate as such.
How do you claim "no affiliation"? Or is the word "direct" some kind of out to make it seem different than it is? Or was the term "at this time" the out? Why feel the need to color the truth? Or do I have the truth wrong?
Was this or was this not totally coordinated with AFR and why not just say that? I don't understand why the wordsmithing? Just call it what it was, an AFR test with a donor motor from Wes for which Wes was compensated. I don't see the big deal of honest disclosure and why the attempt to color it as anything else.
Before you say no one wrote a check to Wes, let's look at that.
1. Three sets of heads flow benched for free. Compensation 2. Free dyno time to pick his combination. Compensation 3. Big discount on the AFR product. Compensation
Don't want to color the results with facts huh? Is there an NDA in play here? Seems clearly like affiliation to me, direct of otherwise.
That's the best you can do JSUP?
Starting to look very desperate....very sad.
For the record, I did not know Wes prior to posting about the AFR challenge (a situation that would require someone actually willing to TEST SOMETHING to prove his point which you casually dismiss because the results went against you).
After speaking with him for a little bit and hearing about his unique situation (having ported factory heads, Dart heads, and willing to take the time to PULL HIS ENGINE so we could test everything on much more reliable engine dyno), it became apparent to me all to quickly that this was a perfect situation. The fact he was close just made it a little more convenient and allowed us to meet at Westech which is a premier testing facility (two engine dyno's and a chassis dyno) to get this done. Have you ever even stepped foot in a dyno cell??
I would have done all the testing on the flowbench for anyone for free as I clearly laid that out in the CF thread about the original testing. Without that data the dyno results wouldnt have been nearly as complete or pertinent if you will (showing "dry flow" prevailing once again). We did pay for the dyno time as originally discussed and offered a moderate discount on the heads also as originally discussed (a few hundred dollars). I give you a guarantee in writing Wes spent more on this test than both of those figures combined....easily twice that factoring in his time. I told him his headers were too small to take advantage of all the heads....he manned up and spent the better part of a weekend installing larger headers to have a better more accurate baseline and to better maximize the AFR headed combo later assuming we came out on top.
He spent money on track fees, gas to get there, head gaskets, intake gaskets, new hydaulic roller cam and lifters.....I could go on and on.
I would drop this marketing ploy of yours like a hot potato....I assure you that it wont be received very well. When I mentioned to Wes it would be really nice to test this stuff on an engine dyno and make parts swapping much easier he didnt hesitate a minute to tell me he would pull the engine from his car and deliver it to Westech...this guy stepped up bigtime and you had better believe it.
In fact if this board (and others) had more guys like Wesley on it, guys like you (keyboard jockeys that never actually test or swap parts to confirm or deny their own beliefs) would get run out of town much sooner. You still havent even tested your own combo....I know transmission issues....blah blah blah. And...."it doesnt matter and you dont care if you left power under the table". Then why should you even have a voice in conversations dealing with others who DO care about that extra power and strive to choose the best components in an effort to get there.
Your just starting to sound like a sore loser honestly and while some people are still amused, most are just rolling their eyes....
I was actually impressed that it seemed you decided to drop it....what was I thinking....LOL
-Tony
Just so you know. I didn't LOOSE anything, I had nothing in it. You weren't competing against me, you were competing against Dart. I am not Dart, just so you know. I've own Dart, but I've owned Brodix, 113s, vortec, etc.. So I don't know what you mean by "I lost".
I posted here an apology before this happened, saying I guess you were right on the 40HP claim of CNC'd vs. As cast. Shame I had to prove your point for you using Brodix as validation, but OK, you were right. You came out ahead on this test, congratulations, don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.
I simply disagree with your conclusion, and that of the leghumping crew, that this test indicates that AFR will always be superior in every situation. The line from A to B on that is not clear to me. That pisses you off doesn't it? I just don't see why my position is wrong and I don't see how you can make that claim.
Here's a $300,000 car making 1200HP, they use Dart heads. Are you saying that they spent all that money to build a car and they are idiots? Seems most exotic big money builds are going Dart, Brodix, or All Pro. They must all be stupid. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevro ... 53QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
Oh, and plenty of your AFR guys have never tested anything either, just so ya know. Ask Ricky. I don't see this venom directed his way...double standards and all. I still fail to see how my dyno numbers or anyone else's have anything to do with anything.
OH, and to your point that people do things while other people sit around and talk about it. Well, this year I decided to bump up my L98. I bought the parts and built the motor. I did something stupid, lost a screw down the hole on an injector change, and I had to do it again. So, I did some research, and within 6 weeks of making a decision, I had a new motor in my car. My trans blew, I did some homework, and fixed it, got a new one. I am the LAST person to sit around and talk about what I MIGHT do, I actually do it. Meanwhile there's people here shooting their mouth off who have been talking a big game while four years later there's no motor in the car. I just didn't do what YOU want me to do, isn't that really the issue? So don't lecture me about keyboard jockies, because I have done it while your leghumping friends have been dreaming about it.
So again. It's nice to see a comparison, you came up 25HP up using a CNC'd head vs. an as cast, with bigger valves, I thoguht it would be closer to 40, but ok, you won bragging rights on this one. Congrats.
