This thread got it's start because black86vette had a bad install... infact, it's pitiful.

The shop took the easiest ways out on every turn. This thread will use his progress (I hope) to show how this is done.

First off, this thread started it all.

The Vette in question is a 1986 Coupe, with Bose.

As I progress with this thread, it will show how he does on fixing the items (again, I hope) and his comments on the improvements. Eventually, this thread will become a full blown tech tip, but as it develops, I hope we can use others experiences to fill it with more good info. After the tech tip has been done, this thread will go bye-bye... so post away, ideas, comments, thoughts, suggestions. They are all valid.

For any job like this, you will need tools. They are:

** Phillips Head screwdriver. #0 and #1
** Drill - for use with Phillips Head bits
** T15 torx driver
** Body Panel Popper
** 1/4 drive socket set and ratchet
** Soldering iron, I HIGHLY recommend the Weller SP80. Don't let people talk you out of it. It is a killer iron at a GREAT price (~$30). It's hotter than hell, and it works FAST.
** Solder. .070 or so, and some heat shrink tubing.
** Helm Factory Service Manual
** Wire stripper/cutter. I use a little one from SnapOn that is real nice and very affordable - about $10.00.

NOTE: I am doing a Tech Discussion on how to solder, keep an eye out for it.

You will also need the wiring breakdown behind the radio. Check this link:
GM Audio Wiring Diagram.

The Helm Manual will help you disassemble.

This is so very important:

[size=18:cd19470265] Pay attention to details. If you have never done this kind of work before, it will require patience and time. Don't expect this to happen in 2 hours, that's the problem with most of these junk shops. They just jam them in and tell you it's done. Yea, right.[/size:cd19470265]

First off is the radio itself.

There are a ton of little screws that retain the center console and the center stack. Remove them. The various panels will come off.

The radio is held in with 4 bolts, use the 7mm socket to remove.

I recommend you run new speaker wire. It's not hard. In fact, it's quite simple. The door passages are wide open. Once you get the wire started, it just falls through the conduit. Very simple. But, you need to door panels off to make sense of it.

Before we worry about that, let's get the radio sorted out.

The radio wiring needs to be prepped. On the aftermarket radios harness, take a moment and check the wires and their colors. It will make sense in a bit. Next up, check the harness in the dash and compare that to what the link above indicates.

The rest is just soldering the connections together (wait for the tech tip, this weekend!).

I will add more as I get along with the details. Also, this will give black86 enough to digest for a few days.

Gee, I appreciate the kind words on the system. I got it fixed though.

Had the system installed back in March of this year. It consisted of two 6 1/2 inch speakers in the doors, 2 speakers in the wheel wells( 4x9s I believe) and then a box with two twelves with the amp attached. Wiring is poking thru the carpet. They told me that the 6 1/2s would not fit so they "returned them" and put in 4 inches. The bill said 6 1/2s though so yea.....Worked for a few days and would start acting up.

At first, it seemed it would have been the alternator because it generates the juice and if it was going bad, then that could make the radio skip/cut out, similar to a scratched up CD. Wasn't it because we put in a new ACDELCO one in and still had the problem. Took it back to them and they said it was my Digidash causing the problems....True the digitaldash was messing up but that I don't think it would interfere with the radio frequencies. We took it to a electrical shop independantly owned. Basically it was a shack behind some guys house who did this on the side as a hobby. He had it for about two weeks and said he switched out alternators and it was still the same issue. Interesting enough, he put tinfoil around the distributor and stuffed it inside the cockpit area behind the CD player and it worked fine for awhile. Why, I have no idea but he said they should have come with a shield and the shop removed it for some reason.

Don't know the details on that but it was fixed temporairly. He did note that a permanent shield should be made. My dad took some sheets of tin and fixed it around the CD player. Again, fixed it temporairly but the skipping came back. We kept playing with the tin foil and it worked until I hit a bump and it would bounce again. The wires I had on them at the time were ACdelco's as well so I would not have thought against them. We did replace the distributor, dist. cap, rotor button, plugs as well.

Fast forward this to recently, still battling it, and me getting pissed and searching the internet and tinkering with it, still no success. I took it back to them and they said it was the ignition causing it. They claimed that the motor was "large" and gave off "interference". Don't the C2s or C3s have 427 big blocks? Mines a 350. Not big at all. We called our mechanic and he said to have them install a filter on it and change out the plug wires to some from NAPA. Ok. As of now, the radio is working. The filter was around 50 dollars plus a few more dollars for "miscellaneous".

Im going to add that there are no speaker covers and they want 200 dollars to fabricate some up. The originals were damaged so I did not keep them but I was stupid not doing that. The the filter was just put in and I have not been able to drive it for more than 30 minutes because it is going to a GOOD mechanic to get looked over. If the problem persist, I will post back.

The wiring is hard to describe but I am going to try to describe it. Where the rear shade, the carpet directly below it does not fit flush and flat like it did before and you can see the wires go down to it but they are hanging in the air to the amp because the amp is on top of the box. Wires are spliced on teh ends and then screws are holding them onto the amp. They then go down behind the carpet. They did NOT bolt down the box so I did that myself with some shoulders for shelves. The rest of the carpet is undisturbed and I doubt the seat has been removed because I would feel the wires underneath or notice it has been moved. The rear compartment has no wires in it either. Now wherever the wires are going, I can't find. They then pop out of the firewall right behind the battery and are wired down there. There is a metal clamp with holes in it that operates the subwoofers some how because it came loose and the woofers and the amp stopped working as well. I think that about covers it unless I have forgotten something which I will post if I remember.

Anyway, I am happy that it is working now. Just need the carpet to sit flat again. The carpet on the sides does not fit right either. .....I am trying to post the pic of my amp now. It will be up in a few minutes I hope.

You really do have a town full of idiots.... My heart goes out to you.

First off, and most importantly, the C4 NEVER had an ignition shield. By the time the C4 came around, automotive electronics had improved to the point that interference wasn't a problem.

I do wonder... the coil, if anything, is what will generate the interference. If that isn't right, it could do this, but I doubt it. It would cause buzzing that is engine speed dependant, not cutting out.

Cutting out, to me, sounds like a bad wiring job.

I solder everything, so that I don't ever have to worry about a bad connection - that soldering tech discussion will be coming out shortly. I plan on writing it today.

As for the speakers, that's what I was bitching about. They didn't want to properly remove the junk bose enclosures. $200 to build enclosures? Damn, dude, you need to learn how to do this, if nothing else, you can make a killing in your area being good at it.

How did they put speakers in the rockers? That's not something that came with the early C4.

Rockers are what? The wheel well area in the back? They came with speakers in this car. You must be thinking of a different year....How would you say to mount the two 12s and amp?

ok, I see what you mean.

Rocker panels are the things you step over to get into the car. Why they are called that, I do not know.

The rear speakers are rear speakers. I can't think of any other term to describe them.

The 2 12s are a bit much, in my opinion.

A single 10" would do it in the smaller C4 compartment.

I will continue these thoughts later, as far as good design is concerned.

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If you look to the left where the speaker is coming out. Look a little above it and towards the seat, you will see how the carpet changes color. It's because the carpet is poking out and not resting against the panel like it used to. Yes, the wiring from the back of the amp is thsi visable in person and it goes behind the carpet directly behind it and then it's nowhere to be seen. I want to be able to hide that wiring though but not sure on how to fix it with that design and it will be yanked out if I try to tug on it and the box is as far back as I can get it.

Did the shop install that amp? IF so they just keep getting worse in my mind. All it would have taken to hide those wires better is some wire loom. They then would only have 1 run then.

damn.... that install is a totally amateur job. I have seen better work done by drunks.

The shop did everything. I iwill try to get a pic of the battery where the wiring is mounted.

So how do I hide the wires better? I need to try to move the amp as little as possible because the wires are not held in. They took the ends and cut off the insulation layer, and spred the copper inside and then put it on there. That make sense? So yea, can it be "cleaned up" a little or...am I just up the shit creek without a paddle...

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This is a pic of the transformer for the neons. If you look to the side, see how close it is to the master cylinder? I talked to a member from the other forum and he said that they may have tapped the power into the ABS power source. When the car is turned off and the ignition is OUT, and the neons are running purely off the transformer, wait about 10 minutes. turn off the neons, turn on the car, the abs light is lit up. Strange huh?

You need to learn automotive electrics. In your area, you could - hell WILL - get rich doing this work the right way.

The best way to learn? PRACTICE. Take some basic electricity classes, take some automotive repair classes apply the two skills and you are set.

That is a really stupid place for the transformer. There shouldnt be any ABS wiring in that area with the exception of the front left wheel sensor wiring.

I agree on both counts. The ABS computer is behind the drivers seat in the storage bin.

The power switch is below the steering wheel though. Is there any wiring in there where they may have spliced it into it? I take that back, it has to be spliced into to something in there to draw its power.

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Tried to get in automotive class in highschool. It was booked both semesters. I can look but I don't think the college I am at right now offers automotive classes but I could be wrong. Well, I could practice on my car. trying to figure out whats going on. When we had the shield made, my dad drilled a small hole in it ran a wire thru it and attached the wire to the chassis with a screw to ground it out. When he told the radio shop this, they said that might help because it gives off "waves". I have seen alot of cars here with neons and there brakes don't mess up. Chillcat had them on his vette and his didn't mess up. On the underside of the car, the metal lines, are those not the brake lines? That is where my bulbs are hanging. I got a pic of that to. Ill post it. I wonder if it's heating them up, causing the fluid to boil?

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Thats what I said to. It should be near the horn area where there is no heat. I asked them to move it but they said it wouldn't make a difference.

This is the only pic I have right now.








The other neons I have seen are hidden and under the actual car.

In answear to your question on how to hide the wires better I would say with that set up you have two options. #1 Drill a hole into the box and run it through the box then seal the holes with silicone. #2 buy some wire loom and that way only the loom will show.

http://www2.streetglow.com/site/garage.hottiez100-4.php

Like these? Nifty colors. :tongue:

I am willing to bet that the transformer itself is the reason for the ABS code.

Neon transformers create a lot of voltage, as such, that creates what is called "EMI" - Electro-Magnetic Interference. If it's a cheap ass transformer (which I suspect) and poorly grounded or isolated, all hell breaks loose. That's why your ignition is not the cause of the radio quitting.

The shield your dad made is not a bad idea, but really, a waste of time. It's masking whatever is really wrong with the install. And judging from the wiring job(s) done on that car, I am surprised it hasn't melted down. Seriously.

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*I* have not wired anything. Are you pertaining to the car itself or just the stereoshops wiring?

Edit: that photo is upside down to so the master cylinder is on the oposite side.

I know you haven't... that's why I keep blaming the shop. They should be shot. Taken outback, given a cigarette, a blindfold and then summarily shot.

And yes, the photo was upside down... it really was confusing the hell outta me.

So what suggestions ya got?

FYI, the transformer for the neons I got now was a upgrade from the first one. It was smaller and this one is the "Gold" version. Not sure what is different cept the looks.

About the neons, so it's nto the cars fault but there wiring right? How can I rewire it?

Wait. You don't think my car is really going to burn down do you?

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This is exactly the same thing i said last time this came up and it was brushed off.

Why on earth would they have to splice anything into anything for the neon lights to work? Especially in the steering column or ABS unit. They should connect straight to the battery and be on a relay that is controlled by the on/off switch.


Get rid of the neons, they make the car look like a poonce mobile. They look really gumby.

Mate ive been thinking about your neon issue for a while here, and its brought me to a another point, which may or may not be relevant.

I dont remember which side the L98 has its knock sensor, but if its on the left, having that transformer anywhere near it or its cable is bad for moral no matter how you look at it. If its close enough to the sensor or the cable, the EMT can and will affect the knock sensor and the signal it gives to the ECM, and this could potentially cause your timing to be unduely retarded, which in turn could have an effect on fuel economy and performance.

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Can't comment because without "researching that", I don't understand.