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NitroFish86 Manual brake conversion
Guru Newb
Clarksville TN
23 Posts
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2008/1/1 0:00



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Anyone have any details on a manual brake conversion. Will the master cylinder bolt straight to where the booster was on the firewall?
Posted on: 2008/1/1 21:29
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bogus RE:Manual brake conversion
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
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wow... I have never seen anyone ask that question.

My concern is the amt of pedal pressure it will take to slow you. I hope you have a drag shute. Seriously.

I know how hard these pedels are without boost... rock like.

To be honest, unless you are running so much cam that there is no vacuum, I would have to keep it.

Another option is to just leave the booster... the master won't fit to the firewall.

As a final thought, you might want to check racing supply companies, I am thinking of Pheonix(is that it? I will have to check if I have any catalogs), and see what they have for boostless master cylinders.
Posted on: 2008/1/1 21:34
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
Guru Newb
Clarksville TN
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Yes Sir, I know the effort you are talking about. The brake booster went out completely on this car right after I bought it. It was very firm, but not that bad. I had it replaced by the car lot I bought it from. So "Phoenix Racing" is the name of the place? Thanks again-enjoying this forum
Posted on: 2008/1/1 21:42
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bogus RE:Manual brake conversion
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
20859 Posts
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I did a quick web search and couldn't find them... I used to get catalogs from them... WAIT!

I remember now!

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/?iorb=4764
Posted on: 2008/1/1 21:46
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Notorious RE:Manual brake conversion
Elite Guru
Downbound train, NC
2184 Posts
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You would need to find a compatible master cylinder that has sufficient pressure to operate w/o a booster. I'd get in contact with companies who offer strictly race system, do your homework and get it right. Obviously this is not an area where you want to take chances, no matter what. Central Coaster has done more research on C4 hydraulic brake systems than anyone else I'm aware of. He also has a phenomenal engineering background. I'm sure he'll see this at some point and offer his valuable input.
Posted on: 2008/1/1 21:48
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
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Clarksville TN
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Sounds good, hopefully Central Coaster catches this and hooks me up. A new master cylinder would likely function better than just keeping the booster mounted and not using it. Yeah no corner cutting, I want it right.
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:00
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Notorious RE:Manual brake conversion
Elite Guru
Downbound train, NC
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Quote:
Sounds good, hopefully Central Coaster catches this and hooks me up. A new master cylinder would likely function better than just keeping the booster mounted and not using it. Yeah no corner cutting, I want it right.

Oh he'll catch it. He's a moderator here. If he doesn't respond in short order, I'll make sure he knows about it.
So what exactly are you doing with this car? As a modder and occasional racer, inquiring minds want to know!
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:06
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
Guru Newb
Clarksville TN
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Street Strip. I've been looking into swapping to a solid axle for a while now as this would likely be my best bet for the long run. I'm kicking around a ladder link/12 bolt combo in my head. Anyway, plans are twin 57mm's, meth injection,and a G-force T-5. We'll see how that goes
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:13
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bogus RE:Manual brake conversion
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
20859 Posts
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twin 57s? damn, that's a lot of air!!!!!

If you are dedicated to racing, the live rear is the way to go... Ford 9" rocks in that application.
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:17
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
Guru Newb
Clarksville TN
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9" would be sweet. I could go that route too, a freind of mine is looking to get rid of a whole 4.56/spool chunk. All I'd have to get is axles and a housing. Another friend of mine has a complete (although stock) 12 bolt and I think I may have him talked out of it. I've read so much my freakin head hurts, in the end I feel that the cost of replacing one D44 (which I still haven't bought) would've payed for a kick ass back-half.
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:27
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Notorious RE:Manual brake conversion
Elite Guru
Downbound train, NC
2184 Posts
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Quote:
Street Strip. I've been looking into swapping to a solid axle for a while now as this would likely be my best bet for the long run. I'm kicking around a ladder link/12 bolt combo in my head. Anyway, plans are twin 57mm's, meth injection,and a G-force T-5. We'll see how that goes

Well if it's a serious dragger, you certainly can't argue with a live axle in the rear. It also sounds as if it'll be fast enough that you don't want to cut corners on braking. Just get what you need in a racing package and put in a bias valve so you can adjust it for stability under hard braking. You don't want the car to get squirrelly if you need to stab the brakes in a hurry. And just set it up right. Do you anticipate running fast enough to require a chute?
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:31
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
Guru Newb
Clarksville TN
23 Posts
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Wow! I was kinda thinking 57mm's wouldn't be enough in most people's eyes. I'm still learning alot about turbos too. Maybe a big single if I decide 57's won't give me enough room to grow.
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:37
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
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Clarksville TN
23 Posts
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No, but I do want a dead reliable street/drag car that I can beat on and have fun without worrying about breaking some puny IRS setup. I guess a goal is 600rwhp, weigh under 3000 lbs, and under 1.50 60's. That would work for me.
Posted on: 2008/1/1 22:46
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bogus RE:Manual brake conversion
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
20859 Posts
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Quote:
Wow! I was kinda thinking 57mm's wouldn't be enough in most people's eyes. I'm still learning alot about turbos too. Maybe a big single if I decide 57's won't give me enough room to grow.


You will be shocked with the numbers on a stock 48mm TB, ~900 CFM!!

Keep in mind that the Z06 uses a 95mm single inlet... twin 48s is more than that. Most people believe bigger is better, but too big kills volicity...
Posted on: 2008/1/1 23:16
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
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Clarksville TN
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No no, sorry for the confusion, I meant 57mm turbos
Posted on: 2008/1/2 0:30
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bogus RE:Manual brake conversion
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
20859 Posts
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oh. oopsie.

yea, 57mm turbos will push some serious amts of air!

The charm of turbos is that they produce gobs of power, without damaging driveability.
Posted on: 2008/1/2 0:39
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CasetheCorvetteman RE:Manual brake conversion
Elite Guru
QLD, Australia
2071 Posts
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2006/7/18 0:00



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It can indeed be done, and youll probably have a longer pedal travel, but can certainly be done. Not with the stock master cylinder, youll probably need to choose a different one with a smaller piston diameter.
Posted on: 2008/1/2 4:58
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
Guru Newb
Clarksville TN
23 Posts
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Cool, I've been looking at some new master cylinders. I have to figure out the dimensions I need.
Posted on: 2008/1/2 15:36
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CentralCoaster RE:Manual brake conversion
Senior Guru
San Diego, CA
9454 Posts
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I think you'd be doing yourself a big disservice.

The booster alone more than doubles your braking pressure. To get anywhere close to stopping well you'll need a smaller m/c piston which gets you much more pedal travel. Larger brake rotors give you more leverage with the same pedal force, but that sort of contradicts the cost/weight savings you're going for.

An oem type rear proportioning valve then wastes some of that pedal effort and drops your rear line pressure even more. The racers use a dual master cylinder setup, which the pedal moves with an adjustable bias link. You lose none of the braking force, and since you now have more room for pedal travel you can run smaller m/c's and get more pressure out of them. The pedal will still be stiff though, and again you're talking about some added expense.

Unboosted I could only muster about 400 psi line pressure, with the booster, I recall I measured about 1300/1000 psi front/rear.
Posted on: 2008/1/2 15:57
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NitroFish86 RE:Manual brake conversion
Guru Newb
Clarksville TN
23 Posts
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Good info. I was exploring my options and weeding out unneeded components in my quest to shave every bit of weight I can off this thing. The booster may end up staying but this is good info for future refence.
Posted on: 2008/1/2 16:36
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CasetheCorvetteman RE:Manual brake conversion
Elite Guru
QLD, Australia
2071 Posts
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2006/7/18 0:00



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Quote:
I think you'd be doing yourself a big disservice.

The booster alone more than doubles your braking pressure. To get anywhere close to stopping well you'll need a smaller m/c piston which gets you much more pedal travel. Larger brake rotors give you more leverage with the same pedal force, but that sort of contradicts the cost/weight savings you're going for.

An oem type rear proportioning valve then wastes some of that pedal effort and drops your rear line pressure even more. The racers use a dual master cylinder setup, which the pedal moves with an adjustable bias link. You lose none of the braking force, and since you now have more room for pedal travel you can run smaller m/c's and get more pressure out of them. The pedal will still be stiff though, and again you're talking about some added expense.

Unboosted I could only muster about 400 psi line pressure, with the booster, I recall I measured about 1300/1000 psi front/rear.


I tend to agree
Posted on: 2008/1/2 20:26
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