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| Danspeed1 | GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Finally got some time to sit down and read a magazine. And what made the experience more pleasureable is that for the first time in months Hot Rod magazine has done something interesting....
Was reading Hot Rod Magazine's - Do it yourself Series - ENGINES; spring 2008. They did an excellent article on the LQ9 6.0 Truck engine; I at least thought it was worth reading. Apparantely, and I am by means no expert on these "new" engines the LQ9 is basically a Iron Blocked Aluminum Headed LS2 for HALF THE PRICE. I think thats the part that got my attention. Well anyway, they took this "truck motor" which with the exception of the intake manifold and the oil pan is supposed to be the same dimensions as the LS1/2 and managed to pull another 74hp, and 53tq on top of the 355hp and 396tq the engine was already making, doing simple modifications and a tune. I would have just been happy with the original power it pulled. Now understanding that the oil pan, intake, throttle body, wiring harness, and all the rest run some $$ this still seems like it could be a bargain. Not to mention I am sure there are loads of these in the junk yards, and I am sure you could pick them up used from trucks that have had accidents and such. No time soon, but within the next year or so I personally will be looking to either stroke the L98 or swap the LS engine series into my 89. Why not the LQ???? Is it possible??? Has it been done??? What do you guys think? DG |
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Posted on: 2008/1/7 9:36
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| RollaMo-LT4 | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Trivia Winner
 
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Yes, it's been done. Corvette Fever Magazine had a project car for this.
http://www.corvettefever.com/projectb ... te_project_car/index.html |
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Posted on: 2008/1/7 14:24
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| bogus | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Be careful with using the LQ9.
The EPA has allowed for engine swaps using car engines, but it's against the regs to use a truck engine. And you live in OC, NY, where the state is enacting CA style emissions. I do not know your rolling drop off point... but I would be sure this is done once the 20 year mark (if that is it) is done. I know the rule is stupid... but that's the rule. What really bugs me is that it isn't the engine that makes it a truck engine - but the electronics. If you were to put Camaro controls on it, it would run like a camaro (for the most part). Silly, really. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/7 15:45
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| Danspeed1 | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Interesting,... I have to read that Corvette Fever Article.
As for the EPA - The Environmental Nazi's - I am not too worried about them. The car is almost past the limit for emissions.... and even if it wasn't....  DG |
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 2:03
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| SpeedHound | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Registered Vendor
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It's the engine, Andy. Swap out the truck parts, ie intake, cam, heads and you'll have a car motor. The electronics only control the engine. The engine is what it is though. Put a carb on it and it's still a truck motor.
Dan, I am building C4orce, the Corvette Fever project car. We are using a 5.3 which is dimensionally the same as the 6.0 on the outside. I have the parts necessary to put a 6.0 with headers into your car with no frame cutting. The wiring harness is not a big deal for the engine. It's getting the old original harness out of the way that's time consuming. This swap is not hard. There are just so many little things that have to be done that it overwhelms people. Take your time and you'll be fine. Everything you have heard about the Gen 3 motors is true. They absolutely pound. Check Ebay for pricing on the 6.0s. Typically a drop out is $1500+ LS1tech.com and performancetrucks.net are also very large boards that are good for sourcing these engines and parts. The next issue of Corvette Fever should have more on the engine part of C4orce. Also try and get recent issues of Corvette Enthusiast. Chris MacDonald put an LS2 into an 85. His was a custom deal with fabrication. However, he went into detail on how to make the factory digi dash work with the new engine. You'll find that very useful as it will be very similar if not the same for you. Feel free to ask any questions you might have. I'll be happy to answer what I am allowed to. Thanks |
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 2:09
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| Danspeed1 | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Trey,
Thanks for the words of encouragement! I can definitely see this swap in my future although there are a few issues I will spend time researching before jumping into something like this. As for the actually installation, I am always up for a challenge. When I got into this hobby 6 years ago, I knew little or nothing. After just a year, I managed to rewire my Chevelle.... everything worked. I hate Fords.... but recently my brother damaged the engine on his 2002 GT Mustang, I somehow found myself replacing the engine on that. Working on it right now as a matter of fact, so far everything’s going smooth. The more experience I get before tackling my own car the better, right? I will stay tuned to your C4 5.3 Swap.... Do you have any more literature on the topic, or is that the only Corvette Fever Article out at the moment? I mentioned this once before on the CF, when a few of use were discussing an LS1 swap. Any updates on the Black Tag ZF mating to any of these engines? DG |
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 2:59
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| bogus | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
It's the engine, Andy. Swap out the truck parts, ie intake, cam, heads and you'll have a car motor. The electronics only control the engine. The engine is what it is though. Put a carb on it and it's still a truck motor. I tend to believe that the electronics are also different. EPA requirements are different for cars than trucks. So it can be tuned for different load requirements. Quote:
I think you will find that all engines in the family are externally the same. Even the Katech 7.0 litre is the same external size (hense, it fits in the C5. The only Vortec that doesn't match up is the 8.1 litre truck engine, which is actually a modernized Mark IV Big Block. As an aside, the stock LSx block cannot go much past 428 ci that it is currently at in the Z06 - this is why the ZR1 uses a blown 6.2 litre version. I liken the LSx to the old Olds motor... that started as a 350 and went all the way up to 455. As for the EPA issues, I am simply pointing out it is illegal. I would love them to revise this requirement, because the engines in trucks are so similar to cars anymore. That and many of the standards are the same. If you get a clever smog tech, they may notice it is a truck block. Also, if you are getting used, be sure to request a copy of the salvage title. Many states are cracking down on stolen used parts... I am not a fan of the way the EPA works, and less of a fan of how CARB works, but I fully understand the need. The LA Basin has it's issues... and I cannot imagine how our air quality would be without the mandates. And yes, they are not equally applied, industry is allowed more leeway... but we as Americans should be used that that kinda crap by now. Speedhound is in FL; they do not yet have inspections. Of any kind. You do, so don't be surprised if you get snagged. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 3:27
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| SpeedHound | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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We're in Ga actually but that's close to Florida. The Atlanta area has smog but it's simple stuff but no inspections. The rest of the state does not have anything. It's obvious when you see some of the cars people still drive. I'm not sure about the controls exactly on the truck engines. The sensors are all the same and the PCMs from 99-04 are the same and can be swapped around without issue. However, maybe the truck programming says to do an EGR purge at a different point in time for a different length of time. I doubt it but that's part that I do not know for sure.
Yes, the 7.0 is the same external dimensions as the other engines. There's a few differences but it's nothing like the difference between a big block and small block. If a 5.3 will fit, a 7.0 will fit. Dan, you've got the right idea. Just take your time and research as much as you can. I had a great deal of research I had to do to make this swap work. It took some time just sitting there and trying different ideas out. I also had to think about the different configurations such as manual or auto. That is the whole point behind the C4orce project. To show how to do it and bring about the production of the pieces needed to make the swap work so that others could follow. As of now, the only way to mount a ZF behind the LSx engines is with a modified scatter shield. The modifications are pretty heavy and exact as well. So while it can be done, it's not something most people will be able to do. We are using a Tremec TKO 600 mounted to a 168 tooth bell housing. That will be the easiest way to go. The TKO 600 allows for a very low first gear and still have a very good over drive. Our car has a 3.07 rear end and we think we will be able to keep that without issue. It looks good on paper anyway. Once we get the car together, we will drive it and find out for sure. Have any specifics you want to know? This next issue of CF should have some more details on the engine part of this build. Up til now we really have only been doing "normal" stuff. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 13:05
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| bogus | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The TKO600's OD is the same as the 4+3 OD, so it should be just fine with the 3.07 gear. If anything, a 3.31 gear would be better...
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Posted on: 2008/1/8 14:51
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| SpeedHound | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Registered Vendor
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haha you know, I didn't even look at that. I was simply looking at the gearing options on the 600 and the rear gear of the car. Figuring weight of the car and how the cam would act. I just thought the low first gear would be good enough and that OD looked nice. Guess I only have to worry about the low first gear now. I can always change the rear gear later. I personally have more plans for this car beyond this current build. We will see if they ever pan out. If not with this car, then another for sure.
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Posted on: 2008/1/9 4:27
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| Danspeed1 | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
As for the EPA issues, I am simply pointing out it is illegal. I would love them to revise this requirement, because the engines in trucks are so similar to cars anymore. That and many of the standards are the same. If you get a clever smog tech, they may notice it is a truck block. Also, if you are getting used, be sure to request a copy of the salvage title. Many states are cracking down on stolen used parts... Andy, Lets put it this way; I've taken the car to shops to have things done like tire changes, inspections, stuff I can't do myself. On one occasion I was asked who makes the car. The car says Corvette all over it; who the he** do you think makes it? These the types of guys were are dealing with up here in New York. Yea the state may be "cracking down" on smog and "stolen" parts but what happens behind closed garage doors is something different. In any event I am sure President Grant would persuade these guys to pass the vehicle if the issue did come up. I am not saying I condone this type of activity, but the reality is this is New York. Also,... I don't quite understand... wouldn't a newer engine be more efficient and thus omit lower amounts of NOx?? You would think that a newer engine would probably be designed to decrease smog, even a truck engine? DG |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 7:05
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| Danspeed1 | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Dan, you've got the right idea. Just take your time and research as much as you can. I had a great deal of research I had to do to make this swap work. It took some time just sitting there and trying different ideas out. I also had to think about the different configurations such as manual or auto. That is the whole point behind the C4orce project. To show how to do it and bring about the production of the pieces needed to make the swap work so that others could follow. Well, I can't wait to see the next couple of issues; can't wait to see how the project turns out. I will keep your sn on the side... you can expect to here from me again. And if you do decide to produce a kit for this sort of swap, keep the little guy in mind (me); If you produced a scatter shield/bellhousing for the ZF I would buy it,.. I am sure others would too. Good luck, Dan |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 7:13
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| SpeedHound | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Registered Vendor
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Thanks Dan. I'm a little guy myself. There are two of us with it mainly being me behind this shop. I do what I can as fast as I can.
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 20:56
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| bogus | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
Ouch. That sucks. My experiences here are not all that much different, but you can never predict around here when a CARB or police officer won't be working a sting. Quote:
You are catching up with me. I don't agree with the rule. The best I can figure, it's a left over from when the emissions standards for trucks were seriously softer than cars. Hell, pickups, for 49 states, were not required to have cats until 1981, I think. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/13 1:36
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| CFI-EFI | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Quote:
Hell, pickups, for 49 states, were not required to have cats until 1981, I think. RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/13 1:55
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| bogus | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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So 1981 it is... cause the prior change was in 1978 or so... My mom's 78 Audi Fox didn't have a cat (Bosch K-Jetronic, I think) and neither did my first car, a POS 1976 AMC Pacer, 258 I6 with a massive (ha!) 1 bbl carb. I am pretty sure my brothers 78 Datsun B210 was cat-less as is a friends 1979 280Z (EFI of some kind). I am equally sure that my oldest brothers 1979 Chevy C10 pickup (250 ci I6) was catless.
One of the reasons that Japanese Imports were not immediately effect by emissions controls was that they didn't need them! For the most part, the smaller more efficient engines in the Japanese cars were that much cleaner than the American sourced engines. Same for many of the smaller European cars. However, a lot of the OLDER Euro cars - mainly MGs with the push-rod Austin based engines were dirty pigs, so they got nailed... Jag did too... the XJ motor had some icky nasty heads, too. I know that fire, police and park ranger types can still order vehicles without cats - fire hazards in remote areas. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/13 2:21
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| Danspeed1 | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Elite Guru
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So while we are on the topic, how bad are motor vehicle inspections in California? I was watching a TV show about "illegal street racing." In a couple of states (I am assuming california is one of them) you can't modify anything on your vehicle that suggests the vehicle could be used for street racing or you can face heavy fines. This includes things like lowering springs, low profile non OE tires, exhaust systems, air intakes. The police actually stop these vehicles and know what to look for and what tickets they can write. (Scary) I know alot of guys on here and CF are from cali. When you take the car for an inspection or get pulled over, do you really get hassled for this B.S. ???
DG |
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Posted on: 2008/1/13 5:23
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| bogus | RE:GM LQ9 6.0 Engine - C4 Swap? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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no. that's bull and bad media hype.
What they are looking for is part true - they profile "street racers" but what they are looking for are smog violations and stolen parts. it is NOT illegal to lower or modify... as long as it's not stolen or violates smog. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/13 7:12
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