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Re: ZF6 removal? |
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Kevin - as a matter of fact I am. I figure it would be the perfect opportunity. BTW - what are your current thoughts on gearbox fluid? Regular GM, Penzoil Syncromesh, BMW, Amzoil? I hate to ask but, I'm going to need to decide what fluid to go with. No drag/autocross, just a cruiser. Thanks,
Posted on: 2010/3/14 1:28
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Re: ZF6 removal? |
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cool!
I will be using a lift with arms which swing in on each side and no floor plate so, complete access to the trans and room for transmission jack. Thanks for the good news!
Posted on: 2010/3/11 23:54
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ZF6 removal? |
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How difficult is it to remove/swap a ZF6? Assuming you are not changing the clutch, bearing, etc Is it really just a matter of remove shifter,drop exhaust, remove C-beam, propshaft, remove wires/associated hardware and remove the transmission from the bell housing?
Am I oversimplifying this? I've only been under my '93 a few times but from the looks of things this is a pretty simple trans to swap out? Opinions please and tips/tricks before I dig in in a few weeks? Thanks,
Posted on: 2010/3/11 23:43
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Re: Donner Summit |
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cool post Bill thanks!
Posted on: 2010/3/10 0:19
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Re: LT1 Coil Packs |
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How long have you had yours? thanks,
Posted on: 2010/3/10 0:15
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Re: 15yo lawn mower worth fixing? |
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Agreed - it seems you gotta spend bucks to get something decent these days when it comes to small engines. There is a lot of JUNK out there. the older stuff was more robust and seems to last longer.
Posted on: 2010/3/8 23:14
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Re: Shortened A4 shifter mod |
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I did this on my former '85 - looked exactly the same.
Very cool cheap mod, makes a big difference. Looks great!
Posted on: 2010/3/8 18:41
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Re: LT1 Coil Packs |
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I bought a delteq used this winter. Low miles, looks new. I really debated whether I wanted to install or just replace my failing Opti. I got 95,000 miles out of the stock opti so, I wasn't opposed to replacing it with a new GM unit. At this point I think I will go ahead with the install of the delteq though once the car is out of storage.
From all my research it sounds like removing the high voltage current traveling through the cap really helps with longevity of the opti spark. I've also heard that the optical sensor in the opti is supposed to be the most reliable part of the system (it's a Mitsubishi sensor with a low failure rate) at least that's my understanding? I believe Andy has a different system than the delteq. I'm sure he'll chime in though.
Posted on: 2010/3/7 17:01
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Re: spark plug wire ends |
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Thanks guys for the help!
Posted on: 2010/3/6 17:28
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spark plug wire ends |
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Can someone tell me what they recommend for spark plug wire ends (plug side) for my LT1 w/ stock manifolds? I'm asking as the car is in storage so I can't check myself.
I will be installing a delteq unit this spring when I get the car out of storage. I want to order taylor wire (spool) and ends to make my own custom length wires. I don't know what would fit the car best - 45 degree or straight plug ends? Thanks, Brian
Posted on: 2010/3/5 2:09
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Re: 160 T Stat |
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an intelligent thread about T-stats on an auto forum with useful, correct info and not one disagreement?
This place scares the hell out of me sometimes...
Posted on: 2010/3/2 2:43
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Re: Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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I've seen the articles on venting the earlier Opti's. I've also looked into all the Opti alternatives out there. after weeks of researching all the forums out there (Corvette, 3rd gen, etc) most are very hit or miss with anything other than a GM opti. I've got a bit of time still before the car comes out of storage so, I'm still debating. I am leaning towards the Delteq though.
Posted on: 2010/3/1 23:30
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Re: Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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I've heard that Delteq is defunct. It seems the units go for around $200/$300 used so, I may keep an eye out and when a cheap used one comes up buy it for spares.
Posted on: 2010/3/1 23:25
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Re: Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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Thanks for the thoughts Bogus. I've read through your thread and the more I think about it I think I will install the delteq unit. It's paid for, what the hell? I can make a nice cover out of dry carbon at work if I don't like the look of the coils on the valve cover.
The delteq is paid for. I'll spend the money somewhere else. Thanks again for all the replies.
Posted on: 2010/2/28 22:57
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Re: Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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Thanks guys lots to consider. The weather has been fantastic (for Vermont) this "winter" so, I think I may get he car out of storage earlier than usual this spring and get started on all the projects I would like to get completed so I can drive the car this summer rather than work on it.
If I keep this car (which I see no reason for selling) I may buy a used LT1 and build it up on a stand, then swap it into the car when it's ready to go. That's the main reason I'm not too hot on getting into changing the cam this engine - and all the associated parts that go with it - I'd just assume keep this one going as cheap (and reliable) as I can for now. My current engine is very strong with no leaks at all. decisions, decisions... thanks again for all the help!
Posted on: 2010/2/28 1:29
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Re: Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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Thanks for the offer I will let you know if I end up needing it. I've gotta do a little more research before I decide how I want to proceed. I am pleased with the power from the car for my purposes (tooling to work, weekend drives) so, I don't know if I would really benefit from a hotter cam. Either way thanks for the offer!
Posted on: 2010/2/28 0:37
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Re: Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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So - how big an undertaking is it to change the cam in a LT1 C4? Do you have to pull the engine up off it's mounts so the cam can clear? I could see this requiring the removal of the C-beam, all sorts of crap to get in there...
Or am I making it out to be more work than it is? Thanks,
Posted on: 2010/2/27 22:20
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Re: Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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Ahhh... crap... I just took a look at the newer vented distributor and you are correct - it will not fit into the older style cam. I could probably have the shaft turned down to fit the older cam but now we're getting a little crazy. Well, I guess it's a good excuse to buy the LT4 hot cam, and roller rocker kit and change the timing chain too? I actually have a complete delteq unit I bought a while ago. It has about 2,000 miles on it. I'm a little torn between which way to go - I like the idea of keeping the car visually stock. And if the water pump ever fails and unloads on the opti it will probably kill the optical sensor anyway? Then I'm right back to changing the opti again, so... I've been torn on which route to take. Thanks for the advice so far.
Posted on: 2010/2/27 22:12
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Opti spark conversion on my '93 |
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I plan to swap out the Opti in my '93 this year with the vented unit from a '95/'96. I have a '95/'96 Opti, a '95 timing cover, vented opti vacuum harness and vented opti wiring harness.
The cam is where I am a bit confused: Some say you have to go to the '95 - up cam, others say you can change the distributor drive dowel in the end of the cam to work with the newer opti. Can anyone confirm that the pin on the end of the earlier LT1 cam can be changed out to drive the vented Opti distributor? Thanks,
Posted on: 2010/2/27 18:59
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Re: cfi-efi |
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Jim it's GREAT to hear you're back at in the comfort of your own home!! Here is to a speedy recovery!
Posted on: 2010/2/27 18:53
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Re: Dissed on drag .............. |
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dammit I'm eating my lunch!
Posted on: 2010/2/26 18:35
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Re: Post Your Favorite Picture Of Your Corvette |
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[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/vtvette/DSCN3520.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on: 2010/2/26 18:34
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Re: [phone] Verizon vs AT&T |
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There's a few different Droid phones. Be sure to check out the Droid Eris by HTC. It's smaller and lighter than the Motorola Droid. The biggest difference between it and the Motorola Droid is the lack of a physical keyboard and it's less expensive and less bulky.
Search "Droid vs Droid Eris" most reviews favor the Eris Droid. The biggest issue with the Droid Eris was it came with android 1.5 vs. the Motorola Droids android 2.0. Now, however, the Droid Eris can now be had with Android 2.0 which features google maps, navigation, HTML 5 support, better virtual keyboard, more screen sizes/resolution and more. My next phone will be a Droid Eris, or possibly the Nexus 1 coming to Verizon this spring. The biggest issue for me is the Droid is Open Source and the Android OS is developed by Google/Open Handset Alliance - something the Iphone never will be. Apple got a big jump on the smart phone market but with Google behind the Android and it's Open Source OS it will quickly surpass Apple in functionality and always be less expensive.
Posted on: 2010/2/25 4:48
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Re: wheel adapters |
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Hey Pappy I had them on the rear of my former '85 when I ran C5 wheels.
I got them off E-bay, I will see if I can find the vendor for you. As I recall they were under $100, around $70 for the set? They were very nice, came with the correct lug nuts. I ran them for several years with no problems at all. IIRC they were hub centric on the car side, but I can't remember if they were hub centric on the wheel mounting side. There's a chance you will have a vibration with adapters that are not hub centric (feels like a bent rim). My wife's car had aftermarket rims in which the center hole was too large for the hub centric ring on the rotor. It always felt like a rim was bent. One time I had the wheels off and measured the hub, then the inside of the wheel, and went down to the part store who sells lots of rims/hub rings. Bough the proper ring, inserted in wheel, and all shimmy was gone. A non hub centric adapter will not result in epic failure, and I've seen non hub centric wheels on cars with no vibration at all but, if you do have a vibration problem with no lip on the adapter to properly seat the rim you may have a hard time getting rid of the vibration. (hope that all makes sense!) I was a little hesitant as you are to put them on the car the first time but I would not hesitate to use them again on a street car. I don't know if I would use them on a car that sees the track (don't even know if they are competition legal for most governing bodies?) but that's not an issue for me.
Posted on: 2010/2/5 14:11
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Re: SYS? |
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This is a trouble code from your Central Control Module (or Body Control module). Here is a bunch more info:
DIAGNOSIS The Central Control Module (CCM) uses the speedometer, odometer, and the trip monitor located on the instrument cluster to display information while in the diagnostic mode. The speedometer is used to display Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) (CCM, ABS/ARS and ECM), the odometer displays data, and the trip monitor indicates the system being tested and the test which is being performed. The buttons on the Driver Information Center (DIC) are used to send instructions to the CCM when in the diagnostic mode. Unlike other vehicle electronic systems, such as ECM, SIR, etc., there is no specific "CCM" lamp to indicate a malfunction. A DTC-setting malfunction in any of the CCM-monitored systems is indicated by "SYS" (SYSTEM ERROR) flashing in the instrument cluster trip monitor. If a malfunction does not recur within 100 ignition cycles the CCM will automatically clear the DTC. The "SYS" indicator will flash 3 times every 15 seconds while a current-DTC malfunction is present. An exception to the "SYS" malfunction indicator is that PASS-Key malfunctions (DTCs 51-53) will be indicated by the "SECURITY" lamp being illuminated without the "SYS" indicator flashing. If there is a Fuel Enable Data Stream (FEDs) malfunction (DTC 54), the "SECURITY" indicator and "SYS" indicator will flash together, to illustrate that the problem condition affects vehicle security. DIAGNOSTIC MODE To enter the diagnostic mode, ground (connect it to pin "A") pin "G" of the Data Link Connector (DLC) located under the right side of the dash, and turn the ignition switch to the "ON" position. A = Ground B = ECM Diagnostic C = Ride Control Diagnostic F = T.C.C (VIN P) G = CCM Diagnostic J = E&C Bus Data K = SIR Diagnostic L = SIR Serial Data M = Serial Data ------------- DLC connector --> |F| | |C|B|A| |G| |J|K|L|M| ------------- - Important: If the A/C fuse is blown, the CCM will not receive IGN 3 power and will not enter diagnostic mode. This condition should also be indicated by a DCT 16 being set. After turning the ignition "ON", the CCM will display any DTCs and the module for which they apply is an automatic DTC sequence. The CCM is module 1, the ECM is module 4, the ABS/ASR EBTCM is module 9. During the automatic display sequence, each DTC is displayed for three seconds, followed by a one second pause before the next DTC is displayed. There is a three second pause between the DTC display sequence for each module. The end of the DTC list for each module is indicated by "---" being displayed in the speedometer. If there is a communications problem between the ECM or EBTCM and the CCM, the speedometer will display "Err" when the CCM is trying to communicate with the ECM or EBTCM. - Important: The CCM will display "Err" when attempting to display ECM DTCs for the LT5 engine. CCM display and cleaning of ECM DTCs is available only for the LT1. Use the Tech 1 for ECM DTCs on LT5. The particular module being interrogated is indicated on the trip monitor, and the DTCs are displayed on the speedometer. The speedometer also indicates if the DCT is a current DTC (malfunction present now) or history DTC (malfunction has occurred, but is not present now) with a "C" or an "H", respectively. All ECM and EBTCM DTCs will be displayed by the CCM as history DTCs, weather they are current or history. ** reference When all DTCs have been displayed for all modules, the trip monitor will display 1.0 and the speedometer will be blank; this indicates the CCM is in the manual mode, waiting for input from the technician. At any time during the automatic DTC display sequence, the manual mode may be entered by pressing any button on the DIC. MANUAL MODE The manual mode can be entered as described previously, or will automatically be entered after the automatic DTC display sequence is complete. When manual mode is entered, the speedometer will be blank, and the trip monitor will display "1.0", indicating that module "1" (the CCM) is ready for further instructions. The buttons on the DIC are used to control other systems and options as illustrated in Figure 4 (the Driver Information Center). The indicator "--" will be displayed on the speedometer if the end or beginning of a list of malfunction DTCÂ’s is reached (using the "Next Value" or "Previous Value" button). The "--" will also display if no DTC's are present for the module being checked.
Posted on: 2010/1/29 16:26
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Re: Headlights broken.... |
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I used a headlight module from a late 80's Firebird in my former '85 (which had a complete '91 wiring harness). It worked fine. My understanding from a lot of research I did when I swapped dash/harnesses in my former '85 is that the Firebird and Fiero use the same module so, a Fiero module should work in the Corvette. The only issue if you are getting the module from the salvage yard is access to one from a Fiero - IIRC it's in the wheel well, and you have to remove the front fender liner to get at it. Not the easiest task when you're working in the yard. The Firebird module was right on the firewall and very easy to remove.
Posted on: 2010/1/29 14:42
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Re: Learn who everyone is |
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Far left in the leather jacket? What the hell is this Tool Time??
Posted on: 2010/1/24 2:55
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Re: a-arm bushing replacement |
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I replaced all the bushings in my '93 last summer and had no issues with having to drill or cut any bolts either. One issue I found with my poly bushes was after a thousand miles or so I re checked the torque on all the nuts/bolts and the large nuts on the upper A arm were loose. I wonder if the bushed are just a hair too wide when installed for the sleeve which goes through the middle of the bushes? This is on my list of things to check when I get the car out of storage this spring.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 15:38
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Re: Learn who everyone is |
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Brian I'm 34 (I think) I'm another who stopped counting birthdays around 30.
I live in Colchester, VT [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/vtvette/20559_103952929631556_1000005054742.jpg[/IMG] This was the tail end of my days with hair... talk about a loosing battle. Now I sport a "Bruce Willis" hair do (by nature, not by choice) [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/vtvette/10855_101110253249157_1000005054742.jpg[/IMG] And my '93 [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/vtvette/DSCN3520.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/vtvette/DSCN3513.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on: 2010/1/21 14:47
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Re: Knockoff Vs. Real |
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The worse nightmare I ever encountered in regard to the whole aftermarket/OEM situation was a year plus restoration I did on a 1973 Jaguar E-Type. Everything is available for the cars but man does the quality differ greatly from source to source and from batch to batch of parts. I recall purchasing a tail light for the car 5 times over - 4 units were sub par or defective in some way out of the box. Of course every supplier touts the quality of the parts for these cars but It was a holy nightmare to actually find good parts. And then some retailers would have some good quality components but some of their other components would be crap so you had to buy all over the place.
Posted on: 2010/1/14 18:15
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Re: From the pics .... |
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It really is a treat to work in a clean, organized facility. It makes it more difficult to do professional work in a cluttered, unorganized mess. Especially so when it's not your cluttered, unorganized mess you're dealing with. This rings true of any industry, and line of work.
We have A "new construction" photo on our website: [IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/quattro1kato/directionpic.jpg[/IMG] That was when we just moved into our current shop 4 years ago. This is what it looks like on a fairly regular basis (this was before Christmas break 4 years ago. We normally don't have so many cars in the shop) [IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/quattro1kato/DSCN2682.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/quattro1kato/DSCN2676.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on: 2010/1/14 18:06
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Re: AVATAR (The Movie) |
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Whoa! And I was thinking the $9.00 they get here was bad until I read your reply!
Posted on: 2010/1/11 17:54
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Re: So, you want to know about car batteries ....... |
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Cool link Tommy thanks!
Posted on: 2010/1/11 1:26
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Re: Who is Travis Pastrana ? |
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I can say from working with him for years he is every bit as genuine in private as he is in front of the camera. He's just an incredibly nice guy whose talent and fame absolutely have not gone to his head. He has fantastic parents which I'm sure have helped. He's also very smart. He goes over every stunt he conceives or attempts and runs the numbers again and again himself. He's involved every step of the way. He's easy going, mellow actually. He never gets upset (visually anyway). He graduated HS at 15 with a 3.9 GPA, then went on to earn a degree (Journalism I believe) from University of Marilyn at 19yrs old. The same can be said for Dave Mirra, our other driver of BMX fame. These guys are just genuinely nice guys who truly appreciate what they have, take nothing for granted and realize that without fans/media etc they would not be able to do what they do.
Posted on: 2010/1/4 20:14
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Re: Who is Travis Pastrana ? |
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While most suspension info is proprietary on the cars I can say it's most certainly able to handle any landing situation given the distance jumped even if the car does not land in an "ideal" manner. We've tested the cars many times over the course of the past few years in preparation for jumps like this and the cars have come down on the front wheels, rear wheels, one corner etc and the chassis and suspension are more than capable of withstanding the forces of impact.
The Monster jump was cool but, jumping a stadium truck and comparing it to a unibody rally car is really a apples/oranges comparison
Posted on: 2010/1/4 19:59
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Re: Star Trek Corvette |
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I did the same thing in a former C4 with the Targa top. I was working on the car all winter and had the top just resting in place. Went for a quick burn up the street the first clear day of spring. Forgot the top was not screwed down and got to about 30mph and woosh - the top was just gone! I stopped and waited a second and remember thinking "no crash - maybe it landed in the grass" then suddenly a bang as loud a shotgun. The thing must have landed perfectly to make the sound it did. people all over the block were out in front of their houses to see what the noise was.
Posted on: 2010/1/1 19:46
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Brian VTvette 1993 triple black roadster 6 speed |
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Re: ZR 2 |
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I own a ZR2!!!!
Well, it's the RPO code for the off road package on my S10 pickup. Pretty cool actually - The frame is box channeled for strength, the location of suspension mounting points are all different from the stock S10 to give it a suspension lift from the factory, rear disk brakes, carbon/kevlar skid plates, Bilsteins, etc. it's a true off road package, not just skid plates, shocks and some stickers. It doesn't seem right to me to use the "ZR" RPO on a pickup though. As the full size pickup's off road package is "Z-71", they should have used "Z-72" of something similar for the S10 IMHO.
Posted on: 2010/1/1 18:31
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Re: Hey Central - you ever review a C5? |
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Honestly for a street car there is little I would really want to change to the C4 but the flexy frame really does suck. I have a BMW 325 convertible I drove the other day and damn, what a difference a stiff chassis makes for the driving experience.
Are additional chassis braces worth the investment on the C4? I already have a X Brace as I have a vert.
Posted on: 2009/11/17 3:44
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Re: Hey Central - you ever review a C5? |
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Wow great replies! This is probably the best thread I've ever read about the "C4 vs. C5" experience. Like most I'm curious about the C5 as prices are certainly coming down. Personally I still prefer the look of the C4 (especially convertible) and I love the interior of the C4 but these are strictly personal opinions of course. As CC mentioned I actually like that on the street the C4 actually feels "faster" than you are actually going. Chalk it up the the stiff ride/flexy chassis?
Hey Rob thanks again for the offer. We will definitely get together in the spring and check out each others new rides! There is a Corvette show in Stowe the 14th and 15th of June The "Green Mountain Corvette Classic" we should try to hit up next year. I always seem to remember the show around July. I've been trying to attend for years. Next year I WILL go!
Posted on: 2009/11/17 3:27
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Hey Central - you ever review a C5? |
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Hey Kevin, I'm curious if you've ever given your opinion of the C5? I'm sure by now you've driven one. What were your thoughts?
Brian
Posted on: 2009/11/16 0:56
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Re: checking stuff off the list |
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A good nut and bolt makes these cars much more enjoyable as well. Take an afternoon and fix all those little annoying rattles that develop in a C4 over time. Loose door mirrors, door rattles, dash squeaks, etc. My car is going into storage in the next week or so and I have a list of small things to fix next spring.
Posted on: 2009/11/16 0:53
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Re: Common Sense is Dead |
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That's cool! I always say to our Accountant at work "Common sense isn't all that common".
Posted on: 2009/11/10 13:53
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Re: Where do you live, do you like it there and why? |
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Case you sold the 'vette? what are you driving now??
Posted on: 2009/11/9 14:05
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Re: Latest creation at work debut at SEMA - "Trax STI" |
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That thing is AWESOME!!
Posted on: 2009/11/8 1:24
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Holy Crap!!! That's low taxes!!! We pay 7% of the value of the vehicle for registration (book value, not what you actually paid for the vehicle so a you can get raped on a rusty beater or a car that needs work you bought cheap). Our condo is valued right around $200,000 and property taxes are $3500/year. We don't even own any land!
Posted on: 2009/11/8 1:06
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Wow this has turned out to be a great thread! Interesting reading for sure!
Bogus in the early 00's I used to stay three weeks a year in El Segundo with Frank Honsowetz and his wife Tony. Tony was the Motorsports Manager for Hyundai America. Frank was an institution at Nissan, running their Motorsports program for decades. He's still involved in local racing maybe you've met him at the track? El Segundo, Long Beach, Torrance, all very nice areas for sure! I loved visiting LA but I don't know if I could live there coming from such a rural area. Bill - Reno is beautiful as well. A guy I work with (the guy who is connected to Abaris Composites) has a girlfriend who lives in Reno. He loves it out there. He's out there visiting right now. I've been to Florida and always enjoyed myself. I think it's a beautiful state and one I think I could seriously consider living in. I've been to Ft.Lauderdale (in July) and really likes it there. I'm going to Miami next summer. May go to Miami this winter for a short trip as air fair via Jet Blue is ridiculously cheap from Burlingon. I have a friend who lives outside of Richmond, VA and loves it. My in laws used to live in Staunton, VA which we visited and really enjoyed. The trees and mountains made it feel closer to VT which we are used to. I love Vermont but, the older I get the cold really bothers my body. Plus, my wife gets bad seasonal depression during the winter due to cold/gloom/lack of sun (it runs in her family). The worse is when it's below 20 degrees, then below zero/singal digits for weeks at a time. that's friggin' cold!!.
Posted on: 2009/11/7 21:24
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Re: "GM Performance" Optispark? |
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In regards to the "Jap Crap" image being turned around much of the thanks goes to one man - an America: William Edwards Deming. With the Chinese economy improving (in some areas) now the Chinese are farming work out to the Vietnamese due to cheaper labor costs!
Posted on: 2009/11/7 21:08
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Hi Case it's great to hear from you, even if just in passing!!!
Posted on: 2009/11/7 18:53
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Where do you live, do you like it there and why? |
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Fellow Guru's I think it would be interesting to hear about the different parts of the country (World?) we all live in and our opinions of our current home towns. I bring up this topic because I do not plan on staying where I am forever and the wife and I pillow talk about where we think we would like to move to. I've traveled all over the continental US/Canada and believe I will probably land somewhere around the Carolina's/Virginia in the future. Of course, who knows... It's the cold, dreary winters that make us want to move. I've always hated the winters and this time of year I dream of moving someplace warmer. The older I get the harder the cold weather is to tolerate.
I'll start: Colchester, Vermont: Colchester is a suburb of Vermont's only "City" Burlington. Pro's: Beautiful Scenic landscape, Low crime, Strong Education, Arts & Entertainment. A great place to grow up/raise a family, four true seasons. Con's: Expensive, high taxes, high housing costs (compared to average income levels) lack of good jobs (or jobs that even pay well in general) Very cold winters, many weeks at a time without sun, crazy politics. I'm fortunate to have a good job (the only reason we are still here) but, employment opportunities in general are very bleak and cost of living is very high. While the summers are absolutely beautiful they are too short. Winter is too long and it's very cold and depressing. What's it like where you live?
Posted on: 2009/11/7 4:32
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LOL!!!...
Posted on: 2009/11/7 0:22
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