I got lots of repairs. I got true dual exaust no cats and no mufflers....2.25 pipeing all the way back. Cut lid 160* thermostat, came with cast iron heads.....Power coupler, descreened maf, I think thats all unless something else is done with out my knowledge...suspension, rims ect has been played with but that dont really matter....So what you guys think I am pushing out? 230 stock I belive with the cast heads? Do you think I could take on a 06 Mustang GT....? What would it take to be able to beat a 01 Cobra mustang stock which makes around 320 horsepower....? I figured if I put on some headers that would give me a boost in 15 ponies...hm....Could I put in a cam and not upgrade/replace anything else and it actually last and make power?

I was meaning to say in the 1/8 mile strip because thats all thats around here. I know I oculdnt beat squat in the 1/4 mile...................

I can't tell you what you want to know, but how about something you don't even want to hear?


(CSS996 smacks Black86v3tt3 upside the head)

DUDE! Your car is barely reliable enough to get you to school! if you have money for heads, put that cash up for the next time your car takes a shitter on you. 0-100 mph is greatly hindered when your car won't start. So you won't beat a Ford Pinto, let alone a Mustang GT.

Focus on making your car a good, reliable runner first. THEN maybe worry about numbers.

Love ya, man!

Be smart.

It's got issues....I think its cursed. Im not even considering messing with teh motor right now. I am trying to make it reliable. I was just asking....I was bored and that stuff just crosse dmy mind. I was thinking about this episode of pinks I saw and how fast these two mustangs were. I was just counting #s and trying to figure out what my car was making now. Still thinking abotu it. In english class we have to write a small entry everyday and i write about adding mods to the car just to see the #s. My teacher always puts GREAT! on all myc ar papers. She seems into cars alot. If I was planning on taking out heads and stuff, I would be sure to make it quite clear. I wonder why my car always breaks......It's really annoying. I don't want to call it a piece of shit but with all regards it is. It looks pretty, sounds good,.....when its running normal it runs good. If one itty bitty thing goes wrong, all hell breaks loose. .....My car DOES start now. I moved the battery cables to the top post....It was a oil leak making it smoke from what I can tell right now. Valve cover gasket must be shot....I wonder why it broke....Interesting..... Im tired of having problems. DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A SUGGESTION OF WHAT MIGHT NEED TO BE REPLACED NEXT?!?.....Right now, I have about 100 dollars and my dad is going to pay me some more to help him tear out the tile in our bathroom and put down some new on the floor....Battery cables are check......Next i think I am going to replace my passenger side window switch and teh door locks, Flush out my radiator and put on new hoses,...Replace two digidash bulbs and that would take care of the small anoyances and prevent my hoses/radiator going out on me....Any more suggestions? Tires are still good. Brake pads/rotors seem fine, Oil is good, tranny fluid is good, front spoiler is good, all lights are good, exaust is good, wiper blades are good,

Do you have the factory service manual yet? That was my first "mod". I haven't torn into it yet, but I know I'll need it to diagnose my VATS, coz I can't program my keyless entry.

But if you need to spend some money, if you are going to tear into the doors, I think the '86 still used the ribbons to lift the windows. The later cars used something else.... It escapes me right now, but It works better for longer. Or something...

I wouldn't spend every penny you get right away. You never know what is going to break down. It would be good to have $500 in the bank for the unexpected, ya know?

If you can keep it running, imagine how well you will know the car when your are 30 years old? And imagine all the money you will be saving by doing your own work on that car? Just graduate, get a slightly used Honda or Toyota to get you around when the weather is bad, or the Vette is torn apart. Keep the Vette forever. Make it just what you want. But if you really want a fast C4, you might want to start with an LT motor. Either a swap, or a newer car.

There's never enough money, is there?

Bogus already told me about switching to a LS and not to mess with trying to upgrade the L98 cuz it wont ever be that fast cuz of the runners and stuff.....I wont buy a honda. I hate hondas. Once I move out, I was planning on getting something small and easy to fix while still being reliable. Yes, definatley a 4 cylinder. If I could get the vette running normally, that would be nice. I hate driving in the rain. The window weatherstrip leaks so bad. It has no holes or tears, its till leaks though. Yuck. Esepcially in car washes....I couldnt keep 500 dollars in the bank. To much to work on. I think the scissor style is more reliable than the ribbon style. I know it is faster and less likely to break. Mine seem to be working ok right now. I did have to replace the drivers side window switch as it broke. Going to replace the other side to. It was only around 6 dollars and now I dont ahve to worry about it later down the road. I thought I was going to have to replace the digidash. My dad talked 2 the guy at vette2vette and he said that it was probably a bad ground and not the actual dash. Reground it and it should be good 2 go. Ill be happy then......Yay....I wonder how much longer my fuel injectors are going to last. I heard that new ones sometimes go bad or are bad straight outta the box. That woudl suck........

Youd be lucky to have 200 horsepower at the wheels mate. Keep your money in your pocket til you can do the whole engine PROPERLY in one hit. Putting in a bigger cam and leaving the original stock valve springs in place is asking for trouble. If youre going to that much trouble, you may as well do the whole thing.

and what is wrong with a Honda? Stock, with a 4 banger, you can't kill the damned things. Pick one... Civic? 40mpg highway... Accord? Space, pace and reasonable grace, figure 35 highway... the Prelude? high-20s on the highway, but decent performance and GREAT handling. I mean GREAT handling. I had a 94 Prelude VTEC prior to the Vette and that thing would CORNER. FWD or not, it was divine.

I am with CSS and Casey on this... get your car right and then it will be time to mod.

All the bolt ons in the world won't get you past 240hp at the wheels... as long as you have a stock long block, your wasting your money.

The reason I suggested the LSx conversion had nothing to do with the TPI ( a consideration, yes, but not the reason). The reason was simple - you will spend upwards of $5k building the L98 to reasonable power - figure 400hp at the crank - and you will STILL be dealing with a 1986 vintage computer and harness.

Doing the LSx with 4L60E (or manual transmission conversion) is about the same money, but you START with 350hp... And factory level reliabilty. Plus, a modern PCM and transmission. Seems like a no brainer to me.

How do you go about getting the instrument cluster to work with the later model PCM?

In my opinion, $5,000 USD into an L98 and youve got a much stronger engine then any $5,000 LS1. A good 4L60-E is probably going to be worth almost $2,000 USD with all the strongest parts (which are most certainly needed if youre putting out 400 horse and want it to last), so there is $7,000 and youre still not on the road yet. Could have a damn fine stroker for that, or sell the early C4 and get a 94-96.

Bogus are you talking US MPG or imperial MPG? I used to get 42 imperial MPG out of my 87 Corvette on the highway. Im yet to see a rice burner that has 245bhp and gets that economy, let alone an 80s rice burner that gets close to that economy either. And im yet to see a rice burner that makes 400bhp+ and uses less fuel than my 94. A guy at work has a 96 200sx with no turbo, wouldnt even blow the hat off your head, and it uses almost as much fuel as my 5.7ltr hopped up V8.

I always speak in US gallons... that extra bit in an Imperial gallon screws with my math.

The 4L60E will easily handle a stock LSx. No question. Just don't abuse it. The 700R4 barely handles a stock L98... that's sad.

Figure it this way, the LSx and 4L60E from a late model Camaro is about $3500 USC used from a good salvage yard - complete with accessories, harness and PCM. Figure another $1500 in incidentals - installation kits, things like that. You are now at about 330hp, and fully stock.

The LSx responds nicely to a tune, roller rockers and a touch of cam... bam! You are at 400hp. And still bullet proof.

I did all this research before I went LT1 for my wifes 87.

As for the IP, the digidash isn't all that fancy, it takes standard analogue signals and displays them... BFD... all you lose is the instant MPG. The VSS requires a signal doubler, tho.

As for Honda's, I was referring to them as stock beater cars, not for performance. However, a properly built 2.2 litre VTEC will make 800hp. It's just that most folks don't have the patience, skill or money to do it right.

Your friend with the 200SX has issues... those things should get better MPG. I bet he was flogging the hell out of it.

When I still had my Prelude, one night, coming home to Delaware from Atlanta, GA (a friend of mine and I went down for a big Kyosho RC car race, we finished 6th!), we stopped at a rest station in North Carolina, right over the boarder with South Carolina, going north on Interstate 95 (you can check maps if you want reference points).

I-95 in North Carolina is about 181 miles long. Normally, it's a 2.5 to 3 hr drive. That night, I became lead rabbit of a 6 car train. We were cruising at 95MPH for about 170 of the 181 miles. We covered that distance in about 90 minutes. When I stopped for gas in Emporia, Virginia, about 10 miles north of the North Carolina boarder, we averaged 26mpg. The Vette would never touch that kinda MPG at those speeds, 20mpg, tops, is my guess.

My point is simple, proper selection can get you a nice little "economy" car, that gets good performance without breaking the wallet, either with maintenance or with random failures. In the 6.5 years and 173k miles I owned that car, it only was on the hook one time, and that was after an accident. I never had problems with failing fuel pumps, or wheel bearings or electrical gremlins that made no sense at all... injectors failing... window seals drying up... head gaskets and valve seals...

But even with all our know issues, the Prelude lacked the character that is a Corvette... do we really think people buy Ferrari's cause they are reliable? No, they buy them because they are Ferrari's, warts and all.

Funny you say that, the 700R4 is the same box, it just not electronically controlled. The auto in my 87 was still going strong after 6 years of my abuse, not one issue with it. The 4L60-E in my 94 was buggered when i bought the car. A stock 4L60-E wont cop that, and if youre putting in my power, youre going to use it, so you want it to be reliable enough that you can use it without the fear of breaking something that you WILL have if you put a stock 4L60-E behind 400bhp.


Ofcourse my workmate with the 200sx was flogging hell out of it, that is the only way you can get the slug of a thing to move. Ive known a fair few people that have owned them and Sylvias over the past few years, and none of them have ever been as reliable, as powerful, as fast, or as good around the corners as my bone stock 87. A mate had a Honda Civic with a VTEC that he thought was fast and handled good () til he went for a drive in my 87 Corvette. He only just got better economy then i did.

You may never have had any of those issues with that Prelude, but i never had any of them with my other Corvette either.

Case, whats done to your cars? If I am making 200 RWHP, how much is that crank horsepower? Like 300? :D

I thought you were asking how much mine has then (i dont know).

Yours would put out maybe 230bhp if youre lucky, depends on whether its an iron head or alloy head.

Mine makes enough power that the 24lbs/hr injectors cant supply it enough fuel ubove 5,600rpm anymore.

Stock my car had 230 horsepower. The K&N/cut lid adds 10 so thats 240, each small cat gives what 5 back so thats 250 and the main cat gives back around 15....265 plus the muff elim prob gives back another 10 so tahts 275 plus true duals gives about 5 so thats 280 so around 280 all together was my quiestino i was asking. Thats what I am guessing my car is making right now as is. I was asking what mods are DONE TO YOUR VETTE?.... Is your car using forced indcution?

figure 20% loss for an automatic, hence, 240 crank.

Quote:

dude... you are believing all the ads way too much.

most of the performance gains you have claimed are killed - nay, beaten to a pulp - by the stock TPI. You giveth, the TPI taketh away.

Any mod to an L98 is pointless unless you do something with the TPI.

I was basing this mostly off vader86s site....

Quote:
Youre basing it on optimism is what youre basing it on!!
Quote:
Yes, your stock original engine had 230 horse. 22 years later, youd be lucky if it still had 200 of them. With the mods you state here, most of which do hardly anything at all, you will be very lucky if your engine would still pull 230bhp on an engine dyno.

Mine is not the same as yours, its an LT1, so its off to a way better start at life for many reasons. Its got alot of things done to it, some done by me, some by the previous owner and fixed up by me.

Here is a DataMaster dyno graph from a couple months ago:


That uses corrections to give estimated horsepower at the flexplate.

Hang on. Why did the car loose 30 horsepower because of time? Ok given a rough example if teh transmissioin was slipping might lost power, my tranny is new now. Motor was uhh had a new bearing put in it so thats new. I know you need to have spark...I have new plugs a new distributor, dis. cap, rotor button wires are still good. So that takes care of that. Electrical system is good. Sludge in the engine. Possibly but I had a intake manifold gasket a while back that I posted on CF which they did help me pin point it down because i thought it was a head gasket. The guy checked to see if the heads were cracked said everythign looked clean. I change the oil regularly. Lots of new parts on it. New fuel pump. So where is the loss of power going to? New exaust. I know FOR DAMN SURE the L98s exaust was restrictive but put 21 yrs on it and yea its alot worse. Now its much much better and louder to! ......Ok....so that takes care of that. Just for the sake of it, Sy I put LT headers on it**dont got em though** so that takes care of the old manifolds. Throttle body could be clogged up?

I cleaned mine out with carb spray and a toothbrush. I later learned that the carb spray was bad so I didnt use it again. :D.....my bad.....Porting the plenum and runners is free but I doubt that would make much of a difference. Plus if I did port htem and made it smooth wouldnt the air/fuel ratio not be mixed as well since I am sure it was designed out of the factory to stay mixed with the design it had previous to being ported?

So are you guys saying that the pistions, rings, cam, crankshaft, and heads are all old and have deterioated over time causing my loss of 30 hp? Taking the L98 and having ALL new guts put into it would give me around 400 but that is saying that I am putting in more powerful free flowing heads and cam to add more air to it...Which in turn would require more fuel so new injectors as well.

The mystery quiestion and last thing I want to know is: Where did that 30 horsepower go? How is vaders site not correct? All I saw on CF was do the exaust its good. The intake is as good as its going to get. Are you saying they are dead wrong with there info.

How is it that if you take a 2003 Z06 with a few bolt ons say headers exaust and a intake then put it against a new C6 STOCK that the 03 would win? Im basing that on the increase of 4 years technology PLUS weight savings......Would the 4 years not have decreased the Z06s power like it decreased my motors power? That dont make sense.



One more thing though. If I took the L98 and rebuilt it to factory specs no more no less. Than it should be making 230 horsepower correct? or since our parts would be the same but better workmanship than 21 years ago, that it would make more than the 230?

Wait. Rereading this brings something else to mind. I saw the Royal purple diff, oil, tranny change that gave back a few ponies. The differential controls the tires so if that got old from age and heat then that would loose RWHP right? So if I left everything as is except put a new Dana 36 in, that my car would be back to factory specs....Unless say nothing was wrong with the differential as was nothing else was wrong with teh motor or tranny which nothing should be to the best of my knowledge, SO that still leaves me pondering....Changing all those fluids if they were old enough would make a HP difference that was lost from the old fluids but my fluids are changed so that doesnt pertain to my applicatioin so....that should still have no effect on where the 30 horsepower went.

But then again if we were basing our estimates of engine power from the dyno of 20 years ago when GM made the C4s and then ran a factory fresh C4 on our dyno that it would make less power because our dynos are moer advanced and accurate than the ones back in the 80/90s. Still.....I would think that it would be realativly close and that I couldnt have lost so much power and that redoing the exaust gave me practically nothing with 3 crappy cats and 2 1 outlet mufflers**I do believe on tip is a dummy**....Im still trying to figure out how you guys say that nothing is going to improve without doing something to the block

True, leaving a stock block does have limitations but if I put in new springs, cam, heads, pistions, rings, gaskets, and roller rockers then that would boost the power....Rethinking bogus's comment on how the LSx series would be better with better electronics and making basically 100 more power than my motor would plus more reliability, then the L98 could be just as good with the heads, cam, springs and stuff. Then having the l98 bored/stroked say 30 over....would give a good increase.

Then again, if everything in the L98 was new even electronics, then it would be just as reliable as any other motor. The actual design has no effect on reliablity does it? Just the parts and not being used correctly. I don't race just a street driven car so it would be nothing to worry about for someone that is using it as a Daily driver.... Hmm......

Wait, the electronics make the L98 suck cuz alot of stuff under the hood is crispy from the heat. So that means use a new electronics and wiring then that would take care of that problem. Put on some hood vents and that would alleviate some of the excess heat and ceramic coat the headers.

Yep I think I got it all figured out!

Am I on the right track here?

engines are complex things. There are many moving parts that wear down.

Cams loose a bit of lift, valve springs loose a bit of spring, rocker arms a touch of accuracy... and then there is the loss of compression... rings wear, cylinder bores wear, valve seats weaken, it all adds up. Lifters weep...

Mileage ultimately = damage.

When it call comes down to it, engines are pumps. The amount of power they create is directly related to the amount of air they can move. All the fuel in the world isn't worth crap without the air to mix it with.

This is why small displacment engines need boost - super or turbo charging - to keep pace with larger displacement engines. The other option is RPM.

Think for a moment... your 5.7 litre L98 made 230 hp, stock, in 1986. Then, that was pretty good. But today, thanks to turbos and better engine controls (and things like VTEC), there are 2.4 litre I4s making MORE than that... The Honda S2000 - 240hp; Mazdaspeed 3 - 270hp; Mitsubishi Evo - 300hp; Subaru WRX STi - 300hp.

Now, part of the problem with the likes of the S2000 is the lack of torque... it's a trade off.

Case in point, NASCAR vs Formula 1. NASCAR engines are 5.8, sorta stock based pushrod V8s. The current NASCAR Chevy engine, for example, is directly related to the original SBC of 1955. The newer R07 engine is a clean sheet design, but NASCAR is now allowing pure race engines.

The current F1 engine spec is a 2.4 litre V8.

Now... to get the same volume of air, the F1 engine must spin twice as fast - and it does! 19000 RPM vs 9000 RPM. The trade off? TORQUE - the F1 engines don't push as much torque, maybe 275 ft lbs, whereas the NASCAR motor puts out 500+. Then again, the F1 only has to push a 1550lb car around, 2000 lbs less than a NASCAR. It's also why, when all things being equal, they are putting out about the same HP (figure 750), that the F1 is SO much quicker.

An F1 car will beat a NASCAR at just about every quantitative measure there is. Accelloration (try 0-60 in 2.5 seconds), cornering (upwards of 4+ g), qtr mile (under 10 seconds). The only area where a stock car might win is top end. The F1 can be geared and trimmed for upwards of 215, but Rusty Wallace proved that a modern, unrestricted stock car at Talledega can hit 240 or so.

What it all comes down to is air... movement of air... and the LT1 beats the L98 hands down.

BTW, you can modify an LT1 intake to fit the L98.

Oooo. I understand. It's not the parts are decomposingl like road kill. It's the parts are moved out of positiioin. Kind like tire alignment. I like the way my L98 is on low end torque. It feels fast to me. My sisters Honda accord is a v6 and i thought it was quick but then i stomp my car and it feels way faster which it is but still....Once I do get my care reliable which I hope is soon. Im running otu of stuff breaking....I wanted to keep the l98 and just make it nice and street driven powerful. Like the cam, heads, rockers, and stuff. I think it was case that said that people have 383s. Staugur who I knew from another forum. CFS. Has a 383 lingenfelter and in his pic it looks JUST LIKE THE L98 STOCK but painted. I like the low end torque over the High RPM.

Less like an alignment issue and more like worn tires.

The parts just age... the metal stresses, it can't seal, it can't push... it get's tired.

B1ack86v3tt3:

It seems to me and please don't be offended, that you don't want to admit that your car is not what it once was when it was new. You've done all the "gimmicks" (cut lid, etc.) which can add a few HP, but that usually occurs when you do the major mods. There's no possible way that you'll be able to pump out over 300 horse without spending bucks. You'll need a good, non-restrictive exhaust, long-tube headers, cam, heads, etc. I know that you very much want to boost your power levels, but there are no quick tricks to gain that much of an increase. It can definitely be done, but you need to spend the money.

You can build crazy power with the L-98 TPI, even without forced induction or nitrous, etc. For example, my 85 pumps out about 500 horses and is 100% reliable. The way I got those levels was spending the all mighty dollar. It's now a 383 stroker, but everything under the hood and I do mean everything, is brand new. Not only is it new, it's been upgraded to the max. The MAF is now a MAP setup, the computer was replaced with a FAST setup and so on. Anything you want to do to your car can be done. You just need to open your wallet. I'm only telling you this because it seems you want to do what I did, but want to get there in a roundabout way. It cannot happen. All you'll do is make things worse. Trust me. Save your money until you can do the upgrades the correct way.

Please don't be offended by what I'm about to tell you because I am honestly trying to help. On this site, you can download a program called ieSpell. Once you download it onto your computer and run it after you're done each posting, it will check everything you've written and you won't have any more spelling errors.

Wow, I must have missed this thread, case and 85 you are both putting down 500 HP very very respectible!

Johnny Youd have to be close yourself wouldnt you??

what is that old adage? Cubic horsepower costs cubic dollars... or how about this chestnut: Horsepower costs money, how fast do you want to go.

A proper 500hp engine will cost no less than $3500.00. That is doing the build yourself and using a carb. If you want to do it right, and be sure it won't pop, the skies the limit...

How about these ones Bogus,

"money is no object... If it is, you dont really want it"

He who dies with the most toys, still dies....