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| rwsduc | 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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A strange problem started occurring this week with my 92 coupe. The temperature here in north Florida has been mid 90's for the past week. It starts fine in the morning when it's mid 70's. My girlfriend drove it to work Monday and called around 5:30 to say it wouldn't start. New battery, voltage read 12.6 on the dash, no solenoid click, nothing. While talking to her she tried it again, it started and she came home with no problems.
I drove it to work this morning (mid 70's again) but when I went to leave for lunch (96+) it did the same thing, no crank, battery voltage mid 12's, no solenoid click, security light not flashing. I tried starting it in park and neutral, tilting the wheel, cussing, still nothing. I eventually got a ride home with it on the back of a flatbed around 3:30. Safe at home, I tried it again, same thing. Broke out the Helm manual around 4:30, first test was clip a test light to the purple wire going to the solenoid and the other end to ground, hit the start switch, no light. Had to leave for a while before I could go to the next step (transmission position switch, not that I had located it by that time), came home around 7:30pm, 80 degrees out and it started right up with no issue. Never heard of such nonsense, has anyone else? Any advice and assistance would be appreciated. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 0:54
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| bogus | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I am betting the starter is getting heat soaked.
If it's the original, I would pull it out and have it tested. More than likely, when cold, it will pass, but, as it heats, the small contacts could be getting expanded out of usefulness. Find a local shop who can rebuild it. Where no NoFla? My brother lives in Sebring. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 1:05
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| BillH | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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I don't think it's a heat soak Andy, if it sat from breakfast to lunch, though C4s take forever to cool down.
Yea, ck the neutral switch. Starter enable relay, Ign. switch. Possible but doubtful - fusible link, but it does start at times. Question: Is there a gap between the steering column and the ign. switch (like more that a 1/16th? And do all the chimes work? If there's a gap, try pushing the switch into the column a bit when you hit "start". You can also try jumping the solenoid but, you have to get under the car. It's best to do it with a starter remote switch but can be done with a screwdriver if you are comfortable doing it. The ign. key must be on to do it. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 1:46
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
 
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Quote:
You say the security light is not flashing. Is the security light on and (non flashing) when this occurs? Do you have an aftermarket alarm system? |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 3:12
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| Matatk | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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I dunno, Bill. On my dad's 79 the heat soaked starter/solenoid would last up to 8 hours. I ended up putting a remote solenoid on it.
Sounds like the starter could be on its way out. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 11:21
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| BillH | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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I understand but "Broke out the Helm manual around 4:30, first test was clip a test light to the purple wire going to the solenoid and the other end to ground, hit the start switch, no light" No starter's gonna fire without current to the solenoid. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 13:31
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| Matatk | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Quote:
Which side of the solenoid was the test light hooked to? |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 22:31
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| BillH | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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No understando, Matt. There's just one wire to the solenoid, purple. Clip a test light to it, doesn't matter if it's attached or not, and the other clip tp ground. No light, no juice. No voltage on that wire, the solenoid won't engage. The problem's up the line somewhere. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 23:19
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| Matatk | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Sorry, I didn't read the part about the purple wire. I was thinking maybe the test clip was connected to the other side of the solenoid that the switched power isn't going to.
In that case, you need to diagnose farther up. Still could be a heat issue. Where is the starter relay on the 92? How about condition of the wiring and any connections/grounds? Ignition switch? Those might be some places to look. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 23:30
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| BillH | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
There's only the one connection on the solenoid and the battery cable of course. The enable relay's in the cab under the left sife of the instrument panel. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/17 23:40
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| rwsduc | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Thanks to everyone for weighing in here. I didn't get a chance to work on it yesterday, just confirmed that it did the same thing when the heat index was over 100 when I got home. Went outside around 8:30 after it had been raining and it started right up with no problems whatsoever.
The car has the stock security system installed. I'm off today so I'm going to try to find the neutral safety switch, hopefully I don't have to gut the interior to find it (under the center console at base of shifter??). Next step calls for jumpering the starter enable relay, followed by checking the ignition switch. Incidentally, I checked for any history codes and found none in the CCM (only C12 present), ECM and EBCM showed nothing, no history codes or C12. Hopefully she isn't starting to die a slow painful death on me. I'll post what I find when I finally track it down. Still seems odd to me, I've owned this car for 6 years in Florida and never encountered anything like this. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 14:53
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| bogus | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I still stand by my initial feelings... the starter is wearing out, and the temps are affecting it.
Occams razoe applies here... the simpliest solution is usually right. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 14:56
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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You'll have to pull the carpet panel to get to the relay. The only pain is the clip behind the pedals. If you haven't seen the location. Page 8A-201-5 and -7. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 15:02
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| rwsduc | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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I agree that the simplest solution is usually right, but in my particular case 12V was never making it to the solenoid to make the starter do anything. I got to the neutral safety switch and per the Helm manual, connected a voltmeter from pin E to ground, hit the switch and had 12 volts. Next step was to verify 12 volts was present on pin F (purple wire to solenoid) when turning the key to start. No voltage was on pin F, preventing the solenoid or starter from ever operating.
I jumpered pins E to F and it cranked right up. I opened up the NSS and the spring loaded dual contact that bridges the traces between E & F was black from arcing, the spring was collapsed causing poor contact and the traces were very dirty. The other two spring loaded contacts and four traces looked much better. New NSS will go on order this afternoon. Incidentally, it was 116 degrees and climbing in the passenger compartment when I started working on it today (measured with a pocket weather meter) and verified it wouldn't start. I just had the drivers side door open when I started taking the console off and took the first voltage readings on E & F. Just for kicks, I rolled down both windows and went inside to cool off and let the interior temp get back down to a refreshing 94 degrees. When I went back out 20 minutes or so later, it started right up. Thanks again to all of you for taking the time to offer helpful hints and moral support. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 18:53
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| BillH | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 20:30
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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Quote:
+1 |
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 20:49
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| Andrew | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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2013 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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If the leads to and from the starter are in good shape, Bogus, I agree. Rebuild the starter yourself. It isn't very hard and is very cheap. Either way, safe insurance. Just a thought, when my battery isn't very fresh, my car will not start. I have to replace batteries every couple of years. Mine pulls current to the electric windows, radio, HVAC fan, water pump, line lock module, nitrous to and purge module, fuel pump, FJO progressive controller, and MSD box. If the battery isn't fresh, it quickly drains and will not push enough juice to crank the car. I don't know how many electronics you have that can pull current before you start the car, but if all else fails, check the battery. Let us know when you find the problem so we can all learn!! |
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 21:12
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| rwsduc | Re: 1992 won't crank when it's hot outside?! | ||
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I should have mentioned, I put a new battery in it last December. The starter is 3 or 4 years old. I'll be on travel for the next week and will put the replacement NSS in when I return. I'll let you all know if any gremlins still exist afterwards. Good luck to all and have a great weekend. |
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Posted on: 2010/6/18 22:49
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