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The GM designation for the 5.7 liter, (350 cubic inch), TPI motor. This motor was used in other GM vehicles, but was used in the Corvette from 1985 t...
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SpectatorRacing RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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I used the 3/4 - 16 Heim ends because that's what was used on the original piece. I assumed they had done some design and testing to determine the optimum size, but I guess I didn't give it much thought. The VBP part also had the sleeves in the bore so it didn't strike me as odd (except for the aforementioned slop).

This is the rear suspension, BTW, not the tie rod ends in the front for the steering arms.

There is a thick spacer on the toe arm attachment to the knuckle as the factory part has a bushing.

I'll try to snap a lot of pictures tonight as the car goes to the hospital tomorrow to become bionic. We can rebuild her...bigger, better, faster, stronger...

I'm not following how you arrive at the conclusion that the bolts are not in shear. I think we're talking about different things, perhaps the pictures will help.
Posted on: 2008/2/7 20:00
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CentralCoaster RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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I'd have to draw a diagram. I'll wait for your pics.
Posted on: 2008/2/7 22:20
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SpectatorRacing RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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Attachment of toe arm to knuckle:


Resized Image



Camber arm attachment to knuckle:


Resized Image



Appears to me that both bolts are in shear. Are we on the same page?
Posted on: 2008/2/8 0:46
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CentralCoaster RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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Here's what I mean by not in shear. I exaggerated the slop between the bolt and sleeve.

[web]http://webpages.charter.net/khasting/images/notshear.GIF[/web]

The shear load is carried by the clamping force of the blue carrier and the red sleeve where the arrows are. The bolt is in pure tension. Even with one mounting ear on the blue, it'd put very little shear on the bolt.

Whether or not this is actually occuring depends on your bolt load and the tolerance of the parts. But it doesn't make sense that you'd want the rod end/sleeve combo impacting against the side of the bolt every time load changed direction. A tighter fit is better obviously.
Posted on: 2008/2/8 1:59
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SpectatorRacing RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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So your thought is that the compression caused by clamping the red sleeve between the blue knuckle is enough to hold the perpendicular force of the green rod end?

Seems like (regardless of tolerance between bolt and sleeve) the sleeve would eventually be slammed with enough shock loading to be in contact with the bolt. While it will surely help distribute the load across the whole bolt instead of point loading it where the rod end contacts it, it's still putting the bolt in shear.

And the top attachment is not encapsulated, so I'd wager it's really putting adverse loading on the bolt...
Posted on: 2008/2/8 2:35
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BillH RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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Good illistration, CC. Now I'm curious.

Spec1, do the rodend sleeves that you got stick out of the holes like the ones in Kevin's pic? I'm asking because the ones that I've used were the same width as the rodends and didn't stick out. Any difference in the mounting width is taken up by the normal washers.
Were the sleeves from VBP like that (Sticking out)?
Seems to me that a design like that would be prone to wear.
If the sleeves were the same width as the rodend and you put washers between the rodball and the mounting surfaces, the tension of the bolt will put a clamping force on the entire assembly.

Also, on the rodends with 3/4 threads and a 1/2 hole. They're out there but expensive. I have one application like that on an older car. The rod end was double the cost of the standard one, and hard to find.

Looking at the pic of your rear toe link, I'll bet you could play a little with rear bumpsteer by varying the thickness of the washers between the rodend and the mount.
Posted on: 2008/2/8 14:34
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SpectatorRacing RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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The VBP sleeves were flush, so they were clamped along with the bore of the hiem joint. I assume the new ones are the same, they're on the car now so I can't check. From memory they were, or at least very close.

CC, if I put a strain guage on the bar, is it possible to measure the actual loads it sees? I already carry a laptop in it for data acq and video. I could run a wire to a guage.

What do you think?
Posted on: 2008/2/11 21:11
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CentralCoaster RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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Sure, a strain guage is perfect for this type of application, plus you can stick it anywhere on the bar as long as it's aligned properly, unless its a 3 axis guage. Not sure if/how well it'd register the shock loads though.

Are you recording lateral Gs? That'd be an interesting comparison for all these links! I don't think those rear toe rods see squat for loads. I wouldn't put any faith in there being a design basis for the aftermarket ones by VB&P, etc. If they guess at it and overbuild it by 1000%, it'll never break, and therefore the design will never be reconsidered.

I'd like to see if they even load up much when you hit a curb or bump strip.



Question though, don't you run into length limitations on the strain guage wiring?
Posted on: 2008/2/11 22:18
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SpectatorRacing RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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Quote:
Sure, a strain guage is perfect for this type of application, plus you can stick it anywhere on the bar as long as it's aligned properly, unless its a 3 axis guage. Not sure if/how well it'd register the shock loads though.

Are you recording lateral Gs? That'd be an interesting comparison for all these links! I don't think those rear toe rods see squat for loads. I wouldn't put any faith in there being a design basis for the aftermarket ones by VB&P, etc. If they guess at it and overbuild it by 1000%, it'll never break, and therefore the design will never be reconsidered.

I'd like to see if they even load up much when you hit a curb or bump strip.

Question though, don't you run into length limitations on the strain guage wiring?


I have run data acquisition at the track, but don't have much saved. I can get it from multiple sources if necessary, however. I do know that I typically see 1.6 - 1.7 g's lateral often at any given track. I never looked for shock loads, don't know if they don't occur in the y-axis or if the accells used on those devices just don't sample frequently enough to record them.

Not sure about the wiring length issue, why do you have a concern? Either they're so sensitive that wiring could introduce noise into the signal, or you're making a joke about plugging into AC power...
Posted on: 2008/2/12 3:57
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CentralCoaster RE:Where to get heim rod ends?
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Well, it's been awhile, I recall anything with low mV output has trouble with long signal wire lengths, because the resistance of the leads are a big % of the resistance. Maybe if you can calibrate them after wiring them up, you're fine.

more info here:

Quote:
The equations given here for the Wheatstone bridge circuits assume an initially balanced bridge that generates zero output when no strain is applied. In practice however, resistance tolerances and strain induced by gauge application will generate some initial offset voltage. This initial offset voltage is typically handled in two ways. First, you can use a special offset-nulling, or balancing, circuit to adjust the resistance in the bridge to rebalance the bridge to zero output. Alternatively, you can measure the initial unstrained output of the circuit and compensate in software.
The equations given above for quarter, half, and full-bridge strain gauge configurations assume that the lead wire resistance is negligible. While ignoring the lead resistances may be beneficial to understanding the basics of strain gauge measurements, doing so in practice can be a major source of error. For example, consider the 2-wire connection of a strain gauge shown in Figure 8a. Suppose each lead wire connected to the strain gauge is 15 m long with lead resistance RL equal to 1 W. Therefore, the lead resistance adds 2 W of resistance to that arm of the bridge. Besides adding an offset error, the lead resistance also desensitizes the output of the bridge.

You can compensate for this error by measuring the lead resistance RL and accounting for it in the strain calculations. However, a more difficult problem arises from changes in the lead resistance due to temperature fluctuations. Given typical temperature coefficients for copper wire, a slight change in temperature can generate a measurement error of several me.

Using a 3-wire connection can eliminate the effects of variable lead wire resistance because the lead resistances affect adjacent legs of the bridge. As seen in Figure 8b, changes in lead wire resistance, R2, do not change the ratio of the bridge legs R3 and RG. Therefore, any changes in resistance due to temperature cancel each other.
Posted on: 2008/2/12 5:04
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