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j3studio Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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One of my wife's clients has her deceased father's near-perfect silver metallic 1973 Porsche 911S Targa up for sale. The original list price was $10,860 or about $62,600 in 2016 dollars. Hagerty's valuation tools have a 1973 Porsche 911S Targa at 95,000 (#4/Fair), $121,000 (#3/Good), $169,000 (#2/Excellent), and $230,000 (#1/Concours).

A quick look at the car in question suggests that it is a #2/#2+. It is a highly original one owner car with 35,700 miles and has always been garage kept. Aftermarket replica wheels have been installed so that the originals don't get damaged and it comes with the original tool kit.

Pricing was different in the 1970s—in the United States, you could get into a 911 if you get $7,690 together for the 911T Coupe with 135 bhp 2.3 liter (though everybody seems to call it a 2.4 it is really closer to 2.3 at 2341 cc) flat 6. The 911T Targa cost an additional $800. Moving up to the 911E Targa (same size engine but higher compression yields 165 bhp) was an extra $1,000 at $9,760. The even higher compression (8.5:1) 190 bhp 911S Targa was another $1,100 and the most powerful Porsche you could buy in the United States for 1973—the Turbo would not make it to the US until 1976.

By today's standards the 911S was stunningly light: 2,250 pounds (a 2016 Mazda Miata weighs about 75 pounds more despite being more than a foot shorter). This meant that 0-60 mph came in about 7.0 seconds.

Base price of the 350 bhp 2016 Porsche 911 Targa 4 is $102,930—the 400 bhp 911 Targa 4S is $117,530. Weight is (of course) way up at 3,395 pounds for the 4 and 3,428 pounds for the 4S. All that power means that 0-60 for the Targa 4 comes in about 4.6 seconds while it is about 4.2 seconds for the 4S.

A quick Corvette comparison: a 1973 Corvette Stingray coupe with the 250 bhp L82 performance small block was $5,861, or about $33,800 in today’s dollars. The Stingray coupe weighed almost exactly 1,000 pounds more than the 911, so acceleration was about the same as 911S at 7.2 seconds for 0-60 mph. A 2016 Corvette Stingray starts at $55,400 and at 3,298 pounds is actually lighter than the 2016 911 Targa 4 or Targa 4S.

Posted on: 2016/7/30 19:03
Edited by j3studio on 2016/7/30 19:19:37
Edited by j3studio on 2016/7/30 19:24:31
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Ultraman Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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......doesn't sound like much now......the 10K to get into a new 911 but consider if you made 12K a year you were doing well. 24 to 36K was big money and you were maybe a lawyer......My Dad with a new PhD was making 18,000 dollars per year and we had a nice newer ranch style home with a two car garage......not rich but solid middle class.......what happened to those days.....?
Posted on: 2016/7/31 2:20
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BillH Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Hummm........I bought a 340 horse, 63 Corvette in 1969 for $1,300 and a 1967 Corvette in 1973 for $3,000.

Prices on that vintage of Porsches (especially models like the "S") have been going way up for the last 10 years.

The new ones - I've driven a few of the standard 911s, the C7 is better.

I did drive a 2011 911 that I really liked but the price on it was $250,000.
Posted on: 2016/7/31 14:23
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bogus Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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1973. A dear friend of mine raced a 1968 Corvette Roadster in the pro series that year. They ran about half the Camel GT season... Sebring, Lime Rock... a few others that I don't remember.

My friend, Jim, said the biggest problem against the Porsche was weight. His Vette had an all aluminum big block... and the car was just too damned heavy. At Sebring, the car would walk the Porsche for the first 4 or 5 hours, then the brakes went south... way south... and the Porsche would start to catch and overtake in the twisties... over time, the Vettes would just grenade - at one point Jim was in 3rd place in class when the classic 454 problem reared it's ugly head - weak wrist pins.

It was either Zora or Carroll Shelby... don't remember who said it... The Corvette is a great car, just 1000 lbs too heavy.

That's why the Grand Sports came out in the first place.

I have a 72 L48 sitting in my garage. 49k original one owner miles... I am in the process of recommissioning it.

I will be getting the master cylinder done today... then the brakes and get it started next week!
Posted on: 2016/7/31 15:47
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BillH Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

bogus wrote:

I have a 72 L48 sitting in my garage. 49k original one owner miles... I am in the process of recommissioning it.


Trade ya a nice 92 for it.
Posted on: 2016/7/31 21:27
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Ultraman Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Whatever happened to that old 67? Hoping to see it progressing along....I'm living vicariously thru your restoration you know......and no the Honda is not getting much attention....but this winter look out the project begins......no really.......it's time.........
Posted on: 2016/8/1 11:59
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First, let's just assume I'm right...that will save us all a lot of time......
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TommyT-Bone Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Yup, old 911 prices are going through the roof. The shop I deal with has 930's coming in from all over for total rebuilds. My mechanic tries to talk me into redoing my 83 body and paint work. Being a cheap bastard I think I'll just keep it like it is for awhile. I don't want to drop 7-10k into looking pretty. I wish the 928's would would build a little fire under their ass. I don't know why they're not hotter. They are fun as hell to drive. Kind of like a German made Mustang.
Posted on: 2016/8/1 12:54
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TommyT-Bone Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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John, she should list it on ebay to stir some interest. High demand. The market is hot, hot, hot right now.
Posted on: 2016/8/1 12:56
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j3studio Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:

John, she should list it on ebay to stir some interest. High demand. The market is hot, hot, hot right now.

Tommy, thank you. She may consign it—what are your thoughts?

Posted on: 2016/8/1 13:16
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TommyT-Bone Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

j3studio wrote:

Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:

John, she should list it on ebay to stir some interest. High demand. The market is hot, hot, hot right now.

Tommy, thank you. She may consign it—what are your thoughts?



Like I mentioned, the demand is there. On consignment she doesn't get as much as she could get but then she doesn't have the headaches of selling. If a reasonable price is asked there is no reason the car shouldn't sell. There are also buyers/resellers that would buy it outright but again at the lower end of the purchase price. The prices mentioned seem on the high side, like 930 money. I' have had a couple of opportunities of late to purchase estate 911's at relatively reasonable prices under 50k. As I mentioned to the presenters I have enough toys as it is and am unwilling to take on any new projects, even just to flip them. (I hate doing sales). A local Porsche repair shop mechanic might provide some good insight and leads as to the local market. They also have the ear of their clients who ask them "If you hear of someone selling a (insert model here) let me know." A reputable consigner will move the car with no need to lose any sleep over the sale. She could have the car appraised if that would make her more comfortable but be prepared to accept considerably less than appraisal if it is to move quickly. It's all money in the bank.

http://www.gullwingmotor.com/Page/Sel ... Classic-Porsche-911S.aspx


https://classiccars.com/listings/find/1973/porsche/911
Posted on: 2016/8/1 13:53
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j3studio Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote: Quote:
j3studio wrote:

Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:

John, she should list it on ebay to stir some interest. High demand. The market is hot, hot, hot right now.

Tommy, thank you. She may consign it—what are your thoughts?

Like I mentioned, the demand is there. On consignment she doesn't get as much as she could get but then she doesn't have the headaches of selling. If a reasonable price is asked there is no reason the car shouldn't sell. There are also buyers/resellers that would buy it outright but again at the lower end of the purchase price. The prices mentioned seem on the high side, like 930 money. I' have had a couple of opportunities of late to purchase estate 911's at relatively reasonable prices under 50k. As I mentioned to the presenters I have enough toys as it is and am unwilling to take on any new projects, even just to flip them. (I hate doing sales). A local Porsche repair shop mechanic might provide some good insight and leads as to the local market. They also have the ear of their clients who ask them "If you hear of someone selling a (insert model here) let me know." A reputable consigner will move the car with no need to lose any sleep over the sale. She could have the car appraised if that would make her more comfortable but be prepared to accept considerably less than appraisal if it is to move quickly. It's all money in the bank. http://www.gullwingmotor.com/Page/Sel ... Classic-Porsche-911S.aspx https://classiccars.com/listings/find/1973/porsche/911

Thanks, again!

Posted on: 2016/8/1 14:12
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BillH Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Ultraman wrote:
Whatever happened to that old 67? ....


I give all my money to the doctors.

And I've had 5 idiots inquire about my FeatherLite race trailer, all fell thru.
Posted on: 2016/8/1 15:38
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BillH Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

j3studio wrote:

Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:

John, she should list it on ebay to stir some interest. High demand. The market is hot, hot, hot right now.

Tommy, thank you. She may consign it—what are your thoughts?



I'd discuss it here:

http://rennlist.com/
Posted on: 2016/8/1 15:39
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TommyT-Bone Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

BillH wrote:
Quote:

j3studio wrote:

Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:

John, she should list it on ebay to stir some interest. High demand. The market is hot, hot, hot right now.

Tommy, thank you. She may consign it—what are your thoughts?



I'd discuss it here:

http://rennlist.com/




Excellent point.
Posted on: 2016/8/1 17:51
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BillH Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:


Excellent point.


They are pretty nice guys (most of em).

Some of them even track Corvettes.
Posted on: 2016/8/1 18:01
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j3studio Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

BillH wrote:

I'd discuss it here:

http://rennlist.com/

I know those folks—you have to remember that the lady in question is not a car person ...

Posted on: 2016/8/2 2:46
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Louis, 2012 Centennial Edition Coupe
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BillH Re: Ruminations On How Sports Cars Used To Be
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Quote:

j3studio wrote:

Quote:

BillH wrote:

I'd discuss it here:

http://rennlist.com/

I know those folks—you have to remember that the lady in question is not a car person ...



True but, they certainly could discuss a sell price with her.
Posted on: 2016/8/3 3:01
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