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jsup | Re: Engine swap on the C1 | ||
Elite Guru
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From what I understand, only one head was damage. Yes. From what I understand, AFR will not even consider looking at the heads to make that determination, they have written them off. I can be corrected on either or both points. This really needs to be its own thread, we've hijacked it to oblivion. I'd like to see lltrevino confirm the above. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/25 18:55
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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TonyMamo | Re: Engine swap on the C1 | ||
Guru
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JSUP.... Stirring up a little AFR controversy I see.....with a minimum grasp on the situation as well as the facts (but posting constantly none the less). AFR does not (and did not) have coreshift issues as it relates to Lletrivino's problem or issue. Find me a handful of posts/threads where an AFR port design has any type of issues breaking into the water jacket of an as delivered CNC ported head from our factory (which the water jackets mimic the port shape on the opposite side). The only "core shift" issue if you want to call it that was the extra aluminum in the rocker valley of the head due to our tooling getting old at the time (prior to the Eliminator switch over) and when the castings were poured the heads would actually be thicker there. That raised the level of the oil in the spring pockets and valley of the head which some people felt caused other issues. None of that is relevant to this situation however so I wont waste another breath on that. What I find frustrating is that LLetrevino had made zero attempts to contact me before he complained to the mods on the Corvette forum (stating I was "ignoring him" no less), which prompted me to contact him via PM . Then after I did contact him and thoroughly explained the situation (and why this was NOT a warranty of any kind), I also offered to see if we could help out and possibly repair the head at a nominal cost. Subsequently he never got back to me one way or another and scurried over to this board where the recent complaining has been going on with the help from you (JSUP) egging on the situation out of your not so secret dislike for AFR and what we represent and your very obvious love for controversy and BS. Everyone sees thru you btw....isnt that evident yet?....some are just still amused by it thats all. Hell, I admit I even made a joke to one of my colleagues at AFR that the CF board is boring without you...LOL BUT....more importantly, back to the matter at hand. I would like to copy and paste my PM response to Lletrevino for all of you to read. I believe it clearly explains why this is not an AFR warranty of any kind and if any "warranty" is to be debated, it most certainly rests in the hands of the shop that modified our heads. This is a black and white very cut and dry situation....its not gray at all and I wouldn't expect any manufacturer of a specialty component to warranty or stand behind someone else's work modifying their component. That's just not the way it works in the world and the more level headed among you have already pointed that out. PLEASE slowly take the time to read my response to Lletrevino if you plan on commenting on this situation at all, which should have been its own thread btw, and I apologize to the OP for having to post this here, however it needed to be put TO BED in this thread due to all the exposure here it has received. The first thing I will share is my original response to the mod who contacted about the situation I was only vaguely familiar with... Quote: Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR The next is my response back to Lletrivino who did finally contact me via PM after this was sent to the mods. I start off acknowledging that he had his heads CNC ported at another shop which is the obvious problem here.... Quote: That's kinda what I thought went down from reading a little of what you posted. Now I ask you.....being armed with all the facts and perhaps a better understanding of the other side of this situation, can you honestly tell me that this is an AFR warranty issue. Here's some advice....instead of making trouble and complaining to your cronies on the Internet (which Im convinced far more people get off on than actually resolving their problems), how about making an effort to actually help your cause. In this case for instance by actually picking up the phone or sending me a PM and explain in a friendly concerned voice "Tony....I have your heads and I really like your product but unfortunately I had another shop run their CNC porting program thru them and they broke into water in an area they say is hard to repair....I realize I modified your product and this really isnt a warranty but is there any way you can help me at all?". You know what....I would have. First by encouraging him to get with the shop who did the work and even personally contacting them to see whats going on....then likely have him send the heads in to see if we couldn't repair it. If it wasn't extremely costly or time consuming we may have done it for free depending on how it was brought to our attention (or even at our internal costs worst case scenario). Guess what....problem solved and now the customer has a set of cylinder heads instead of a $1500 paperweight. You catch more bees with honey than you do vinegar guys....help yourself by thinking before engaging the typing finger on your favorite Corvette message board. And that go's double for you JSUP because you live for controversy. Sorry for the long post....nothing like a dramatic entrance I guess (my first post on this site). Regards, Tony |
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Posted on: 2008/11/26 23:00
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jsup | Re: Engine swap on the C1 | ||
Elite Guru
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I am not so sure how I became the subject of this, but OK.
Beach Bum is an expert on CNC machines, or so he has positioned in the past. All I asked were academic questions as to what would and what wouldn't constitute a manufacturer defect, based on his work with CNC machines. Much like I did when Wes had an issue with his Dart product. I had stated that I can be corrected (not saying I was) and posed hypothetical situations. I appreciate the response, everyone can read it for themselves and decide what they want. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/26 23:23
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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BeachBum | Re: Engine swap on the C1 | ||
Master Guru
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My only comment, is I don't have one.... things like this are always difficult and common to all industries. If somebody modifies my CNC or wires in-correctly and blows up the I/O board, I cannot warranty it, but I do help them..... I'll provide the bench repair at parts cost only for example.
But, as I stated early on in this thread, I do agree, you can't really warranty somebody else machining a hole in the cylinder head regardless of the situation.... it never should have gotten that far by the porter. Recognizing a machining problem early on is typically an easy thing to do. As a note, I am a CNC expert. Tony, are you going to be at the PRI show next month in Orlando ? I have a couple of customers in the show with my CNC, thus I might fly in..... if you're going to be there, I'll stop by your booth and introduce myself. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/27 3:29
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863 cubic inches of C4 & C6 muscle C6 Corvette Z06 - Lemans Metallic Blue C4 Corvette 436 - Pure Black http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3933547 ... chevrolet-corvette/page-1 |
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TonyMamo | Re: Engine swap on the C1 | ||
Guru
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Beach,
I will be attending AETC and directly following the PRI show. Please stop by and say hello....I look forward to showing you the product and a few bells and whistles we have been working on. I agree with everything you stated by the way and understand that the situation is unfortunate. The company that did the porting should have been honorable and if they were this customer would not be in this position. Also note I did in fact offer to try and fix the heads at a nominal fee assuming we could. The customer never reached out to discuss my offer....only to start unjustified negative commentary on this board instead....very frustrating for us when you care about the product and our customers as much as we do. Looking forward to meeting you in Orlando... Cheers, Tony |
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Posted on: 2008/11/27 5:54
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BrianCunningham | Re: Engine swap on the C1 | ||
Senior Guru
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Welcome to the forum Tony!
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Posted on: 2008/11/27 16:50
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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PeteK | Re: Engine swap on the C1 | ||
Moderator
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I have not read through every post here, but I don't like it.
I am tossing the lock on till we can sort it out. If I am wrong, I will apologize to the op. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/27 16:55
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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