Hi,

The shifter I have is from an 84. I dont have the overdrive switch in my shifter. I have the shift face for the shifter, but will have to glue it on for now. I believe I will have to put an overdrive switch on my center console.
I am still trying to figure out how this 4+3 overdrive works.
Thanks for the info.



Joe Flash

Quote:

Stock, the O/d is controlled by the computer .As you don't have the manual chip with the O/d programming in your computer all you have to do is run a 12V feed to the O/d solenoid.
Fused 12V through a relay controlled by the switch preferable.

Most people only use the O/d on the highway anyway.The only feature you lose is the automatic kickdown out of O/d when you floor it ; would have to do it manually.

Cool. Thanks for the info. The install should go pretty smooth. The only thing that I will have problems with would be the wiring. But you helped my solve some of it. Although I am pretty good with 12 volt wiring. Stereo's, lights, etc.
Thanks again.


Joe Flash

Quote:

Don't forget you have to extend the backup switch wiring that was on the auto shifter through the floor to the switch on the reverse selector at the trans.
You have to extend the starter inhibitor wiring from the shifter to the switch on the clutch pedal( or just join wires together if you don't want this feature).

Clutch safety switch is a nice feature if you ever happen to let some idiot drive your car for some reason. I can't think of a reason, but I still end up tossing the keys to people. Even let 2 people drive it that never drove a stick before.

Hi,

Yeah, I would like that feature. Not that Im gonna let anyone drive my vette except the wife. I know she is is gonna wanna drive it. She loves manual cars and knows how to drive em.
Well, we fabricated the shifter bracket today. I still need to get some aluminum spacers and longer bolts, but most of it is done. The C beam will give me some space and I can adjust height from there. When I cut the hole in the floor, I will have to seal it around the shifter with a thick rubber cover. I also need a rubber/vinyl bag to protect the shifter linkage from dirt, and water. If any of you have any ideas, let me know. Thanks.


Joe Flash

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Nice thinking .
There have always been complaints in the past as to lack of aftermarket shifters for the 4+3.
Your adapter allows you to run any regular tailshaft mount T10 shifter.

Hi,

Yes. But lets see where that shifter ends up when I cut the hole in the tunnel. It should not be off by much. The shift rods pretty much dictate where the shifter will mount. Up too high or low, right or left will bind the shift rods. I slotted some of the mounting holes so I have room for minor adjustments.

I hope this transmission is ok. I pulled the side cover on the T-10 and the gears look like new. I am gonna pull the pan on the overdrive, check to see if the fluid is burnt, new filter and gasket. I will keep you posted.


Joe Flash

Well, I just got back from my shop. It looks like I am going to rebuild the overdrive unit. The tranny fluid looked like motor oil. I found a few small metal particles stuck to the magnet in the pan. How can these people not service a transmission? Just buy it and drive it? Dam. I kinda figured I would have to rebuild it anyway. All the stories I read about the overdrive unit. The water residue you see in the pan was from me washing down the transmission last week.
Here are some pics.

I just spoke to SK Speed and Brian told me that the seal could be bad and gear oil leaked into the trans pan. I will check that seal. The fluid is brown and thick. It does not seem to have that bad burnt smell that ATF transmission fluid has when it gets burnt.

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Yeah, its gear oil alright. I think I am going to rebuild the overdrive myself. I am not going to send it to New York, (BTW my old neighborhood)to get it rebuilt. I emailed Paul from 5speeds.com and he cant refer me to a transmission shop local here in Florida. He has nothing to do with these transmissions anymore. Too bad. I heard he was good too. Sold off the headaches to SK speed in NY.

Well the only thing for me to do is rebuild it myself. I have two rebuild manuals. The only thing that deters me is the transmission tools and checking clearances. Micrometer, dial indicator etc. I have a new dial indicator but never learned how to use it. But, my friend has a grinding shop and he will help me out with that part. Its gonna be a great learning experience and I am looking foward to getting it done.


BTW Here is the 4+3 Rebuild manual on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBa ... ADME:B:EOIBSA:MOTORS:1123



Joe Flash

Isn't that stuff included in the factory service manual?

There's also an online guide with photos, I think the link is at corvetteactioncenter somewhere.

Hi,

I dont have a factory service manual for that trans. But, the manual on ebay gives you the clearances and it also tells you how to adjust the cable and an exploded view of all the parts. The online manual has better pictures though. I rebuilt a Borg Warner M-11 auto transmission from my 69 Javelin about 6 years ago. I made a spring compressor tool and it came out pretty good. There was a lot of parts to that transmission.This little overdrive unit has half the parts of a full size auto transmission. I just need to get a good rebuild kit for it.

BTW I have an 87 factory service manual and its has all the info that I need.



Joe

Hey Vetteoz,

Thanks for tip.

Joe Flash

Hi VetteOz,

I found a guy that had a rebuilt overdrive for sale, but he never responded to me. Thats ok. Not interested in peoples rebuilt overdrives anymore. I want to learn how to rebuild my 4+3 overdrive myself.I know I can do it. I am purchasing all the GM tools to do the job. I figure it will make the job go smooth with the right tools. I have all the parts to do the swap. I will tear the car down when I finish rebuilding the overdrive. I will keep you all posted. Thanks.


PS If the T-10 needs to be rebuilt, I will learn do that too!


Joe Flash man

Here are some pictures of the swap. 84 Flywheel will not work on my 86. I had to purchase a new 86 flywheel. 84 flywheel was original and just turned. Now its for sale.

Joe

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Well Lets start to sum up the cost of my 700R4 auto to a 4+3 transmission:

4+3 Transmission on ebay 152.50
Travel costs to Ocala Florida to pick up trans 35.00
Clutch/Brake pedal assembly 75.00
New Slave/clutch cylinder hose 120.00
Tunnel piece-L BRACKET SHIFTER MOUNTED TO TRANS 0.00
Red line Italian leather Shift boot 60.00
Clutch/pressure plate kit 200.00
New 4+3 console plate 75.00
New clutch cylinder & spacer 80.00
New slave cylinder 55.00
Resurface 84 flywheel -wont fit cant use it 30.00
88 4+3 shifter 38.00
Rebuild kit 4+3 overdrive 140.00
4+3 Transmission rebuild manual 13.00
New 1986 Flywheel- advance auto 148.00
New flywheel/clutch cylinder bolts 5.00
Kent Moore transmission tools for rebuild 240.00
New U joints 25.00
Thrust washer and springs 80.00


So far sub-total 1511.50

I know I will be adding to this list when I start the overdrive rebuild and finish this job. Stay tuned for more aggravation.

Joe Flash man

Hi Guys,

I have the new flywheel installed, pilot bushing, clutch, pressure plate, bell housing, starter and flywheel cover. I had to cut the circle of the flywheel cover to fit. Its all cleaned and painted. Here are some pics. I cant do anything else until this week.The correct clutch/brake pedals and the rest of my tools will come in and I will start to rebuild the 4+3 overdrive unit. I also had to retap the threads in the bell housing for the slave cylinder. I got bored so I polished my c-beam and driveshaft. It was easy to polish with Malco metal polish.If all goes well I should have the car completed by next weekend. Ha, we will see.

Joe Flash

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look'n great!!!!

Thanks Bogus,

I was under the car, cleaning the under carriage and rear diff before the trans goes in. Brown Royal kicks butt.I noticed that I have a Dana 36 rear. 3.07 gear. I read that the manual trans vettes got a Dana 44 rear. Will the Dana 36 hold up with my 4+3 transmission?


Joe

Yeah, no problem. Just don't go sidestepping the clutch with slicks or anything.

Hi CC,

Nah, wont be doing that. Got my tools today. Just pulled the overdrive apart tonight. The Direct Thrust washer is shot. Planetaries look good. The plates look good not burnt. I have not got down to the bottom yet. Top picture is the broken Thrust washer. I am gonna need to order some parts from SK Speed in NY. Car wont be done this weekend. No big deal. Gotta get this job done right, because I am keeping this car for a very long time.

Joe Flash

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Update.

4+3 overdrive. Carrier bearing is good. Waiting for a new thrust washer. I replaced seals, O rings, cleaned valve body, new gaskets etc. I will tell you that so far its been a pretty easy job, rebuilding the 4+3 overdrive unit. I did not even have to buy those Kent moore tools. I could have made my own.Its mostly O-rings,gaskets,clutch discs etc. Still waiting for my clutch/brake pedal assemblies. A lot of promises and a bunch of Bull. The bottom picture is the carrier bearing. Heres a few pics.


Joe Flash

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Where are you getting your pedals from?

I would call vette2vette and corvettesalvage and get a price from them at least. Would hate for some dickbag to hold up the entire process. That happened to me with my ZF6 install with waiting on one of those types to send my bellhousing.

Hi CC,

I am getting my parts from a guy on ebay called Uptmor's corvette parts also know as texas vette parts. I saw one of his auctions on ebay for brake & clutch assembly for 90-96 vette. I emailed him and asked if he had the same assembly for an 86 vette. He said yes, dont bid on that auction because they will not fit my vette. He said he had a set for me and contacted me the next day. He told me 60 bucks shipped. I said wow thats a good deal. Too good to be true. Then he sends me the 90 to 96 clutch & brake assemblies anyway. That is why I was going crazy trying to get it to fit. I did not think they were the wrong ones because of the conversation I had with him.

He said his employee made a mistake and sent me the wrong ones. He was sending the correct ones out to me UPS. Seven business days from Texas to Florida? He keeps promising to send me a tracking number but never has. He also said he sent them out and I should have received them. We will see. I dont see why he would not send them out though. I guess its just when.

My dash and firewall has been apart now for almost two weeks. I need to get that car finished and out of my shop. I cant use my forklift around the vette.I cant do anything else to the car until I get the clutch/brake pedals and the thrust washer for the trans. I have a local corvette salvage yard, but he wants 250.00 for just the clutch. Maybe its 14 karat gold.

Worse comes to worse, I will cut the bracket on the clutch, fit it and weld the bracket. The brake is already in. It sucks waiting for people to send you parts. How do these people run their business? If I ran my business like that, I would be out of business. Take care.


Joe Flash

Hey guys,

I fabricated my clutch and its installed. Took all but an hour to do. That dumbass Texas vette parts never emailed or contacted me. I dont need this guy because I fabricated it myself.I made one cut along the top of the bracket and bent the angle up a little. Mounted to the firewall. Then I marked the holes but had to weld an extension on the bracet. It fits like a glove. The master clutch cylinder is installed.I also
got my parts for the overdrive today and have installed most of the parts. Its getting close. I will work on it every day/night this week after work until I finish it. Here are some pictures.


Joe Flash man

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Hi,

I finished rebuilding the 4+3 overdrive tonight and finished the transmission. The end play is .002. Perfect!I take back what I said about Texas vette parts. They shipped my out the correct set of clutch/brake pedal assemblies 2nd day air. I will received them tomorrow. I will install the correct ones. The brake pedal is one inch shorter than the clutch because I had to use my auto bracket. And I dont like it. All that work for nothing.

BTW, I have been posting these pictures and tech information for other Corvette owners that may want to tackle this job. Although I have not been getting many responses, I feel it may help someone out in the future. Thats what these Corvette forums are all about. Sharing tech information.

Also, Central Coaster, VetteOZ. I will be needing your help for wiring the clutch switch, reverse lights and the transmission overdrive within the next day or so. I will be using the overdrive with the switch on the shifter (no computer). I bought an 88 4+3 shifter. I would appreciate any info you have available. Thanks.


Joe Flash man

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Quote:

I'm lurking in the background.I had to swap mine out for an auto to get consistancy at the strip ( could never launch the same each time)Admire you for taking on the rebuild;lots of experts out there claiming " too hard " ,POS ; get a ZF6!

For your case , in order to save having to run a manual chip in your computer and the associated wiring ;
easiest way to control O/d is to have the shifter switch control the O/d relay directly; not through the computer as in stock setup.Does away with need for gear position switches also.
You have the old style O/d with the kickdown cable so you don't need the computer to control that function.

Basically.
Fused hot 12V wire from batt through relay (30A) to O/d connector.
A wire to control the relay from a hot "key on " source run through the shifter switch.
If you are like most 4+3 owners you will only be engaging O/d when on the open road although you can "split " the gears and have 7 speeds to practice your big rig driving.

Hi VettOz,

I need to know which switch on the trans engages the overdrive. I am looking for the wiring info for all the switches on the trans. I found my auto wiring for the

Neutral start switch- Purple - Dark green/White

Back up Lamp switch- Dark blue + hot - Light Green

Park Neutral switch- Orange/black - Black/white

I connected the Neutral start switch to the clutch but will not start at all unless I jump the plug wires. I have been reading the wiring schematic, but no wiring info on the trans.


Joe Flash

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Joe,
In your picture of the trans. the single spade lug connector just to the right of the OD fill plug is the connector that engages the OD.

The three switches connected to the forward shifter lugs are the gear switches that would only allow OD in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. I wouldn't even bother with these and connect the spade lug connector directly to a relay as OZ suggested.

The rear switch connected to the rear shifter lug is the reverse switch.

The neutral start switch is also optional. I bypassed mine years ago so I didn't have to get in the car and press the clutch pedal if I wanted to start the car during maintenance. If you decide to use it, it's simple as you've discovered. In order for the starter to engage, the purple wire has to connect to the dark green/white as you found when jumping them. The clutch safety switch should have two connectors that these two wires connect to. You should verify that the clutch safety switch closes when the clutch pedal is fully depressed and is open at all other times. Use an Ohm meter for this (DMM switched to Ohms). If you connect the purple and dark green/white wires to this switch and it closes when the clutch pedal is fully depressed, the starter should engage.

Hi Rayquayle,

Thats makes things so much easier for me. I thought that spade switch was the overdrive engagement. I dont see a plug for it on the wiring harness, but I can make my own. I will set it up with on acc a relay and a fused line. Connect the reverse switch also. I will also check that clutch switch with an ohm meter. Thanks for the wiring info.




Joe Flash

GM changed the gear switches several times.

I don't know what all 3 of those do.

In 85, the dash switch, coolant temp, and 1st gear switch all fed into the computer.

If the dash switch was on,
Coolant temp was >140F,
and 1st gear was off,

Then the computer grounded out the underhood relay which sent 12V to the overdrive spade connector, and 12V to the dash indicator light.

Fairly simple setup, but it requires a toggle switch for the overdrive. The one you have probably has a momentary switch. Also note that there was no reverse gear switch, the computer didn't care if the car was in reverse.




For your sake, you need a latching relay that can also reverse position, in order to use your momentary switch to cause the relay to stay closed.

I wouldn't worry about the gear switches. The overdrive won't activate in 1st gear anyways unless it's building up enough pressure to close it's internal lowpressure switch. And the coolant temperature input is just a nuisance in cold weather.

If you want an overdrive indicator light though, it would go on anytime you hit the switch, even if the overdrive isn't on. Which is fine really, just power it off the same relay you use to power the overdrive. If you wanted to get fancy, you could run the relay signal through your 4th gear switche, so the overdrive only worked in 4th.


Here, I guess it's called a "flip flop circuit". You can buy a little module that does all of that for you, some even have a small battery so they don't lose track of the state of your switch when you shut the car off. But you'd probably want it to default to off anyways.



http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=123864


Don't expect to build it yourself out of relays, it would take 4 or 5 relays to do it.

Hi CC,

I dont need a light on the dash to tell me its in overdrive. I can feel it. But, I also like your idea of having the overdrive kick in in fourth gear. I have two shifters. The 84 shifter which is in good shape, and an 88 shifter I bought off ebay. I was going to use the 88 shifter but the top button assembly is busted. I got a new shifter switch from my friend.If I wire in a relay, can I use that momentary switch to switch the overdrive on and off? Will that switch handle 12 volts or is it a low current switch? Thanks.


Joe Flash

You should probably use a relay like GM did. I don't know how much current that overdrive solenoid requires or what that switch is rated for.

I have a shifter with momentary switch on top. Do you want it? I know I keep saying I have shit, then I never take pictures of it or follow up, but honestly I have no use for it. If the knob is in poor shape you can at least reuse the switch and button part. I think a momentary setup with that little electronic box would be trick!

If you use the 84 shifter, just put a toggle switch somewhere else. Mine is on the console. GM changed it to a momentary switch in mid-85.

I also had the idea of wiring up a momentary switch to the steering wheel so I could hit it without taking my hands off the wheel.


BTW I bet your car already has the "Overdrive" indicator in the dic, you just need to install a bulb and socket behind it.

Quote:

No , the momentary switch is to send a pulse to the the ECM.

The switch built into the shifter is a momentary, it can't be swapped for a toggle switch. He'd have to abandon it and wire up a different switch elsewhere. (Unless he uses that flip-flop module I posted.)

You could wire that momentary switch to an oil slick, or nitrous.

Hi Fellas,

That switch looked like it was not rated for 12 volt current. I installed a black push button switch with a small green light on the console where the 84 switch would mount. It looks clean like factory. I will use that switch to engage the overdrive. I will connect a relay and do it right. Well, I had the T-10 checked by my friend Jim. He said the trans looked good like low miles on it. I filled it with lucas gear oil, new side gasket, filled overdrive with Dextron trans fluid cut the hole in the floor and ready to install the trans. I have to get the shifter lined up thru the hole. Its coming along.

I had some disappointing downtime last week due to a burglary at my warehouse by some crackhead homeboy. Happened right behind my back while I was next door at my friends shop installing the u-joints in my driveshaft. I was only gone 5 minutes. Got him on security cameras, but the cops wont do sh.. around here. Well, add another 700.00 to this job. Hes lucky I did not catch him. Anyway, thanks guys for all the info on the wiring. Hope to finish the car this week so I can have my life back.


Joe Flash

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Quote:

At the switch on brake pedal that used to disenage TCC , there are pink/blk and purple wires.The pink/blk is hot , "key on" from the gauge fuse.This was also the supply used for the O/d in 4+3 cars.
Put the relay between those 2 wires.The other end of the purple wire will be on the plug that went into the trans; extend that to the O/d.

Also jumper the pink/blk wire to one of the relay control terminals , run a wire from the other control terminal to your new switch then to ground.
Turning the switch on will ground the relay control circuit closing the relay giving power to the O/d solenoid
Both your O/d wire and control wires are now on a fuse protected circuit, off when the key is off.

Quote:

The OE switch is a push button type with a threaded shaft and two locknuts mounting it on a tab at the base of the shifter.Easy to swap out for any similar push button style switch ; either MO or OFF/ON.
Parts bin at Radio Shack

Hi Guys,

I mounted the overdrive switch in the console. It looks pretty good. I have the transmission on the table and I am adjusting the transmission mounted shifter bracket. Its gotta fit good because I am not doing this under the car. I am hoping that when I install the trans, the shifter will be in the right spot. I will finish the wiring once the trans is in. I also have to modify trans cooler lines and make a rubber boot for the tunnel hole. I have been working on it only a few hours a day because its so frigging hot. I have the day off tomorrow and hope to sweat it out and get it completed. Heres some pics.


Joe Flash

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Yeah well tomorrow is the day to get this job done. Its not fun anymore. More like a full time job. What a bitch it was getting that C beam in after the trans was in. Heres the list that needs to get completed tomorrow:


1. Install/adjust shifter & rods and seal hole in tunnel
2. Bolt in C-beam and driveshaft
3. Modify/connect trans cooler lines
4. Fill overdrive with trans fluid
5. Connect relay and wires for overdrive switch, clutch etc.
6. Install exhaust
7. Install seats, console, interior etc.
8. Install TV cable
9. Install battery and side panel
10. Install new leather shift boot
11. Bleed clutch and slave cylinder

Anybody have any tips on bleeding the clutch/slave cylinder?


Joe Flash

Quote:

Remove the slave cyl from the bellhousing so you can rotate the bleeder to the top to get all the air out

To bleed the slave I remove it from the bellhousing and let it hang, otherwise it pushes the clutch in...

Then I bleed it like I would do a brake line...

Then after I'm pissed because there's still air in the system, I force the slave piston in by hand slowly, this forces any air up the hose into the master (it will overflow if you've got too much fluid in there.)

Then try bleeding again, if it's still not rock hard, repeat.

Don't push too hard on the pedal though while the slave is off the car or it can overextend and cause damage.

On my ZF, I was able to actually fish the slave cylinder (while connected to the hose) up through the engine compartment, and bleed it all right there underhood. This was by far the best way of getting it done.

Hi Guys,

I just got home from working on the car today. I did not get much done because the shifter location/bracket had to be adjusted. I had to neutral out the shifter with the slot and get it inline with the rods. This is what I got done today:

Install/adjust shifter & rods
Bolt in C-beam and driveshaft
Modify/connect trans cooler lines

The biggest job was getting the shifter right. I thought I had it right when we made the bracket, but it is a very different story once it goes in the car. A lot of cutting, drilling and fitting. The rest of the job should go easy. I just have to put everything back and do a few other mods. Thanks for the info on the bleed. I have been in and under that car for two days, I feel like a truck ran over me.
Heres some pics.


Joe Flash

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Hi Guys,

Never mind. Got it figured out. Should be done today.



Joe

Wow that shift knob is hideous. Let me see what I've got.

Hi CC,

Yes. I have two half assed shift knobs. One has a worn leather cover and the other is just plastic with a crack and no cover. If you hav today and could not finish the car.The clutch switch was bad on the installed clutch assembly so I had to change it and use the 90-96 clutch switch. I did not remove the clutch to do it. What a bitch. Next problem, The reverse/back up switch on the T-10 is bad. I need a new reverse switch. I hope I can get one. The TV cable that came with the trans was too short, so I had to use my 700R4 cable. I hope it works. The only thing left to do is:


Wire the OD switch, back up lights, and clutch
Install exhaust system
Seal tunnel hole and install leather shift boot
Install seats and interior
Drive car this weekend to a Corvette show, Yea.


Joe Flash

Is that backup switch the same part as the gear switches?

Maybe you could swap it for a gear switch you aren't using.

Hi CC,

Thats a good idea. I was thinking the same thing. Its the white switch thats close to the overdrive unit.(picture on page 4) I believe all of the shifter switches are the same. I am not using the other switches anyway, so I have 3 more to choose from.


Joe

Hi All,

Frankie is all done. The only thing left to do is the shifter boot. I drove the car to the gas station and it shifts good. I hit the overdrive switch and goes right into overdrive without any problems. But, I must press the clutch when engaging/disengaging overdrive or it will clunk.I guess I did a good job rebuilding the overdrive unit. Rebuilding that overdrive was the easiest part of this whole job. I will be using my vette this weekend. I want to thank Central Coaster, VetteOz and anyone else that contributed technical assistance.This concludes the 700r4 auto trans to the 4+3 manual transmission conversion on my 86 vette. Take care.


Joe Flash man

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