Spliced that stuff and will see what will happen ...

We didn't work a lot on the car recently. I was gone fishing a lot and took some time for family related stuff.

Decoded the mystery of ABS and radio this weekend. I hate it when people cut wires and not label them.

Here are a few pics of the radio stuff. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Get well soon!


Right, no CCM. I have a '730 F-body ECM. Can programm it by myself and there is no CCM and VATS in the programming ;-)

'85 VSS is #25007224
'90 VSS is #25007224
'91 VSS is #10456092

I have to figure out the difference between '90 and '91 tomorrow. Afaik all the programming is '90 so the '85 VSS should be OK ...

It's midnight right now ... have to get some sleep ...

But the 1985 ECM does NOT Forward to the cruise control. It's the instrument cluster which does! So to me it does not make any sense to have an output of the speed signal and I can just splice the ECM direct to the VSS ...

Does that sound right?

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I found a diagram of '727 VSS-connection. The ECM outputs to cruise control, CCM and radio. The CCM forwards to the instrument cluster ...

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I used a 1.6mm spiral drill to get the pins out. ECM is almost done. 3 wires left ...

B9 VSS low (401)
B10 VSS high (400)
B11 VSS to dash (???)

According to what I found until now the Vehicle Speed Sensor puts out a 4k pulse sinus wave to the dash. But with the '730 the 4k sin wave goes to the ECM first.

That would mean I should run the VSS to the ECM B9 (401) and B10 (400) then use the B11 output back to the dash.


I found a wiring diagram at the service manual:

401 and 400 are the speed sensor. These wires go to connector 12034348 and finally to the instrument cluster at D11 (400) and C15 (401).

There is an output at the Cluster D12 going to the old ECM as speed sensor signal. This is not used during the conversion to '730 ECM.


Now I'm not sure what to do ...

Cut the wires 400/401 sensor to cluster and connect them to the '730 B9/B10 and do ??? with B11 ...

Or not cut the wires to keep the connection of the VSS to the instrument panel and splice them to the '730 ECM?

I don't like getting computer gremlins so maybe you guys can give me an advice?

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Which year is your car? I could not find a new cable and ended up with a cable available by the meter and soldered a DIY piece of brass to it ...

If I remember right it is a '89 TB.

Got a pretty fast reply from chevythunder:

All 730 ecms are exactly the same internally, the only differences in the pin outs is if it is for a V6 or V8, and the chip is different. My diagram is for the V8 engine.

So what I have could be a V6 pigtail ... will mod it equal the V8 pinout.

Right now I am in the middle of swapping the '85 Corvette ECM to '730 F-body. Found the pinout of both at http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injection%20ecm%20pinouts.htm

The '730 pigtail I work on does have a few differences. For example there is:
- no wire at A4 which should be MAP 5V ref.
- no orange wire at A8 which should be "serial data" but it is at A9
- no wire at B6 which should be ground for CTS and MAP
- a wire at B7 (not used in your pinout)
- no wires at B9 and 11 which should be VSS input

Found wiring diagrams at http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ECMs/92-7730v8tpi-1.jpg

I believe all '730 ECM should have the same "internal" wiring. So I have to reorder the pins of the pigtail I have in a way that matches the pinout of chevythunder and the wiring diagrams of eecis.udel.edu, right?

Best wishes
Eike

I don't know about the assembly but as for the bearing itself, SKF should be top quality. The problem is not solely because of made in China. SKF does fab a lot in China but they do great quality. I never had problems with SKF ...

Thanks for the links! We should give the '94 Camaro w/ CD a try.

No one will check anything under a cover. Even the '94 Camaro with CD should be OK as it does look 1980/90 got english labels and most of the time the inspecting person does not know the difference to the Corvette radio. Unfortunately they are not complete idiots and can tell the difference between a 1980th radio and e.g. a 2015 JVC ...

Will do some research on the Camaro radio and keep you informed.

Quote:

The rules are a little strange ...
It is allowed to upgrade/modify with parts of the same generation or older. So the '91 enginge, suspension and wheels are OK. Even a C3-steering wheel would be OK. Custom wheels or body parts that have been produced 30 years ago are OK. Brake system is allowed to get an upgrade not younger than 10 years after the end of production of the C4-generation, so C5-brakes are OK and ABS is, too. But a modern Porsche/Brembo/C6 would not ...

It is not allowed to get a C5 paint e.g. or put C5-seats in or get a modern radio or modern headlights. It is better to have no radio or a broken one than modern stuff. That's why most people install OEM stuff and get a mp3-player with FM-sender. However, a modern radio with the look of OEM or same generation-GM would be OK.

I really hate that strange rules! Welcome to german bureaucracy ...


The car had custom speakers (Visaton); two at the doors and four at the rear powered by a huge amp. I found OEM-speakers at the dash which were not connected.

The problem with modern stuff is that we are not allowed to install it until we waive the pros of a historic registration ... so we have to get that Bose stuff.

Do you guys think this radio would be ok if converted to non-bose speakers? That would make things easier and way cheaper than getting all the Bose stuff ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-PERFECT- ... h=item4d2e64695b&vxp=mtr#

Next question ...

We will have to get the OEM stereo and speakers.
I found two speakers at the dashboard which do look OEM.
The two rear speakers were replaced by custom stuff.
The doors appear to be cut for getting custom speakers in.

So how much speakers should be at a '85 C4?

Thanks for info and pictures! So this one off ebay should be what we need ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-1989-Cor ... h=item566d8541a0&vxp=mtr#

If I understand right, it does push the steering wheel if the lever is released and will provide electrical contact to the horn contact plate.


At the steering wheel, the spring will be hold in position at red and will contact the horn contact plate at green, right?

I am confused about a spring. Because of the custom steering wheel we don't have all parts.

I took a look at the Shop Manuals of 1985 and 1988 which was a little confusing. The '88 manual does show a spring and a retainer which are not shown by the '85 manual.

Does anyone know if I need this spring/retainer for the '85 and what their function is?

PM sent ...

As for the looseness forget about normal feeling. That thing was catastrophic - moved approx. 1/8" in each direction. I have no idea how that car passed the last inspection.

The column is bolt to the car at four points. There are two nutz at the floor and two screws in the middle (1st picture). If these are not tightened the column can move around.

If just the steering wheel is moving, in my opinion it could be that:

- the pivot pins got some clearance (you get get a lager diameter to fix that)
- there is some axial clearance at the ball bearings (no radial movement should occur)
- the four screws holding the cast part (last picture) are not tightened. This will make the steering wheel move but not the column itself


Did see at your profile that you are local to San Diego. I'm there from 15th to 17th of March. If you like and have time we can meet and I can take a look at your column. Unfortunately I won't have time to fix anything cause I have to stay at some conference during the day ...

A few days ago I disassembled the steering column. Something strange made the steering wheel very shaky. I thought of the pivot-pins because they are common to get some clearance during the years ...

The pins were fine so I had to dig a little deeper. Could not get them out so I used a hot-air gun which destoyed the plastic shroud. Fortunately a '87 column was laying around so I got that part off it. It was designed a little different but I was able gettig it to fit the '85 column.

The reason of being shaky were all 4 screws holding the cast part in place. They were quite simply loose. I added some thread-sealant to them, so it should not happen again. Unfortunately you have to disassemble the whole thing to get there ... not very repair-friendly.

Now the column is rock-solid, but we have to get a new horn contact retainer which broke to pieces. Have to get some small parts missing and toss the custom steering wheel ...






WTF ... why are small pieces of glass inside of the column?!?





These turned loose:




Comparison of '87 (left) and '85 (right) steering column "jacket":




Now we are in discussion if we should get the paint-job done black or gold-metallic ...

Everyone knows what happens if a man does think he know where to go and a woman with a map doubt it ...

So let us share some longer routes to visit a place


10 years ago I tested if a C4 can go off-road. Did buy my '91 at Grand Junction and drove it to Houston for shipping to Germany. I wanted to see the Colorado National Monument, of course. Still don't know how we got in the middle of nowhere but I wanted to know what's behind the next corner ...

After "end of pavement" it turned into a gravel road.




Mile 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... red sand and a small sign "Colorado River 12 mls".



Reception neither on the radio nor on the mobile phone. Gas tank 1/4 ...

Ok, highway beyond the river ... I'm sure there must be a bridge. Half an hour later we passed through a small river. No, that can't be the Colorado ...

Surroundings turned stony ...




Turned right two times and saw two locals working on a huge wheel loader. They were the first people we had seen for an hour. I asked where I am and how to get back on paved road.

They told me that they never did see a Corvette in this area, just some motorhomes which got lost the way we did. I should drive careful because of the stones and I have to turn. The next river (that must be the Colorado) can not even passed by an off-road vehicle. I should turn left wherever it is possible. On the right-hand side no one will find us in the near future.

We did what he said and after another hour of very slow driving we got back to paved road ... just hit that the radio got a song "on the road again".


So what is your story?

Quote:

Unfortunately (4 u ;-)) the lady coming along with me is married :-)

Have sent PM regarding parts ...

I'm sorry! Did not want to offend someone. Thanks for advice! Did some google-research and now I know better ...

Will PM you to discuss the details. Thanks a lot for helping! If one of you guys does need some german stuff fitting in average luggage let me know.

I'm looking for a 1227730 ECM or 1227727 (which is the waterproof underhood version) with a V8-memcal. Or just je memcal. Can't use the V6-proms for my project ...

Best wishes
Eike

Plan A is to stay in the LA area from 21th thru 23th, leaving 24th. If we can reach Santa Cruz in one day without missing some super interesting place (400 miles from San Pedro), we could leave on 25th after breakfast.

Plan B: Could switch LA and Vegas but would not be any better for your trip to Sebring as we would arrive at LA on 18th around midday.

We planed to visit some State Parks between Cruz and Frisco seeing Redwoods and of course visit some interesting places in Frisco. Will stay 25th to 28th in this area. Return flight will be on 29th from Frisco (SFO) ...

Thanks to all the offer to help!

I think I am OK with the ABS stuff. Took me a day to get through the wiring but I have found all parts we need at a spare harness.

Decided to go for an ECM-swap to 1227730. I'm in contact with Brian Harris who has a very good rep on burning chips afaik and he does recommend that swap. Of course the car will get some fine-tuning at a local dyno if needed. To keep that easy we will swap ECM to get rid of BAUD 160 and that '85 MAF which was not a good sensor Brian said.

So we are in search of a V8 TPI memcal which does fit the 1227730 ...

Hi everybody,

I need to get some small parts like ECM, pigtails and sensors from the US. Living in Germany makes shipping pretty pricey.

As I visit Diego during a business trip to join some conference in the middle of march I have the chance to add a little vacation :-)

Would be great if I could send some parts (nothing heavy or big as I have to get it on an airplane within my luggage) to one of you guys and pick them up during my road trip. Will be at Diego 16th to 17th of march, then will drive to Vegas (no gambling but see the Hoover Dam and Grand Canyon), back to LA and will drive the 101 and 1 at the coastline all the way to Frisco ...

If anyone of you is local to Diego, Frisco or any town between at 101/1 and is willing to do me that favor please PM me. And of course I would like to return the favour with some lunch, dinner or what ever I can do ...

Best wishes
Eike

Update ... did not take pics until today. Changed the camshaft, got engine/tranny/drive train in, built an airpump-eliminator, installed coolers, additional cooler for engineoil and transmissionoil, did some small work on electrical and mechanical stuff ...






... needed to get a new accelerator cable and could not find one, so I made one of material available by the meter and soldered a DIY piece of brass to it ...

Use Firefox with adblocker to start the videos directly ...


Somehow I hit upon this video off TED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcX3IW00nuk

So I wanted to know what this guy is doing at his YouTube channels ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/1veritasium/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/2veritasium/videos


The first video I watched was "World's Roundest Object!": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMByI4s-D-Y

If you know about the kilogram and Avogadro constant you will be stunned by the awesome concept.


Fortunately you don't have to be a physicist to understand his videos. If you don't wanna go that deep into physics, take a look at his quizzes or everyday phenomena, like ...

5 fun physics phenomena: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xp_imnO6WE
explained: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIMihpDmBpY

Misconceptions about temperature: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqDbMEdLiCs

Misconceptions about falling objects: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mCC-68LyZM

There are a lot more videos worth watching. To me, one of the most amazing is how trees can grow so tall ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BickMFHAZR0

Have fun watching ...

best wishes
Eike

We got the brake lines, pump, control-unit, wiring, relais, sensors as a mix off a '86 and '90 C4 ... Most parts several times.

Unfortunately I have only the wiring diagrams of a '91 so not all colors are the same but I guess I can figure out what to do with the eletric stuff ...

I don't have pics of all steps we did until now ...

- installed the fuel-tank venting stuff
- installed the ABS-Pump and all the brake lines
- got a '95 fuel tank w/ pump for free and installed it
- started the fuel line job (AN6 PTFE hose)
- got the sawblades painted black



Fabed a guide piece to hold the brake lines in place:




Cut a square hole for the ABS-wiring:




Got the pump in place:




'91 sawblades, the paint is in poor condition ...






3 weeks later ...






We won't have time to work on the car within the next 5 weeks because of a mix of vacation and business trip. When we are back I will coat the wheels with some SiO2 stuff and will get the tires on ...

Update ... we decided to install a cooler for the power steering fluid cause we had one. Did fab two brackets made of 3mm Aluminum:



Installed some parts at the engine bay and fixed the wiring harness front and rear.




Fixed the leaky vapor canister ... charcoal did come out of the hose at the bottom side. As we have several canisters, I did open one:

I'm looking for black center caps which will fit '91 Sawblades. As far as I know the '96 GS caps will fit.

Don't wanna pay $60 each at Ecklers. Used parts in good condtition are fine. Shipping to Germany ...

Thanks a lot! Will read that stuff. I have poly bushings at my '91 for many years without problems. So I think it should be OK for the '85, too.

Update ...


German engineering ;-)




Installed steering rack, front spring and other suspension parts. The upper a-arms are a '85-'90-hybrid because of the different distance of the bolts connecting to the crossmember. All bushings are black poly, ball joints are Moog.



We did some work on the rear axle but did not take pics. We installed '91 parts with new bushings, '93 brake, aluminium drive shafts.

Yesterday I stripped the paint of some C5 front calipers using an air tool with a wire brush on. Today we painted them black using 2k Foliatec stuff.
C5 adaptor plates are DIY, btw. Got them laser cut out of some high-strength sheet steel and zinc-plated after cutting M14x2 and turing the counterbore.





Will sand the paint off "Corvette" and if I find some time I fab new pistons made of some austenitic Cr-Ni-steel because of the low thermal conductivity compared to aluminum. That will keep some heat away from the brake fluid ...

We got a '91 spring but did not consider that the late springs are 1/2" wider. So we need the retainers made of aluminium, not of steel.

Will take a few days to get these and as we are on vacation some time around Easter, I have some time to share some thoughts why you definitely need a late spring if you are converting the early C4 to later model wider suspension and should not shorten the early spring ...

Some facts:
- the front spring rate of '84-87 L98 C4 is 54 to 65 N/mm (except Z51)
- the front spring rate of '88-91 L98 C4 is 93 N/mm (except Z51)
- '88-91 spring is shorter
- '88-91 suspension is wider
- according to Hooke's law: F = -k * x (or F = k * |x|)
where
F [N] is the resulting force vector
k [N/mm] is the spring rate, a constant depending on material and construction. Negative because the force the spring exerts is in the opposite direction from its displacement.
x [mm] is the displacement vector.


So what happens if you shorten the spring? It will get stiffer because of the lever rule. In principle, that is what we need and why the '88-91 spring is manufactured shorter. But cutting 1/2" would not be enough. That is why the geometry of the '88-91 spring is different - it is a little bit wider and formed in a slightly different curve.

According to the the lever rule, another thing does happen: Due to the wider suspension (more precisely the position of the hub of the wheel relating to the retainer of the spring), the lever acting on the spring does extend. That is the important stuff!
If you keep a spring with a rate of 54 N/mm instead of using a 93 N/mm, it will compress way more than it should. Shorten the 54 N/mm spring can not cover that!
So the car would get lowered by approx. 40% without a lowering kit. In addition due to the soft characteristic of the spring the overall handling of the car would fall off in quality. Beside a poor handling, due to the increased dynamic compression all the time the wear of the tires could increase.

So getting the proper spring can avoid a lot of problems ...

Nice tool. Just did the job on my wifes '85 but had to use a bench vise.

I hope it is OK to post one of my tools at your thread. I had to rethread the adaptor where the oil-filter is sitting at the block. As some idiot (me) used loctite bolt lock at it, I could not get it out. So I decided to fab a "special" tap wrench.

I turned the tap wrench and welded a hex-nut at the end. So I was able to rotate it using a 1/2" ratchet.

Worked fine but I was in a cold sweat until knowing I did it coaxial ...




Btw, some great ideas on tools: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/39202-Shop-Made-Tools

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I installed a Canton oil pan resulting in to less space for the oil filter relocation adaptor (Summit kit).




So I decided to fab a shorter one.



It is very important that you install the adaptor before boring and taping the off-axis thread in order to mark its position.

An advantage is, that one gasket is not needed anymore and the gasket which seals to the block is much better than the O-ring which came with the adaptor. I used a seal of an oil-filter. After turning and taping I DIY-anodized it.




Sealed the brass-fittings with Loctite 511:






And finally the installed adaptor ...




Best wishes
Eike

Yes to get ABS (and to use a racelogic traction control later which needs ABS) and because I had all parts available out of my ex '91 - except of the front spring. In addition it is hard to get the 255/50 R16 tires. So we got a set of '91 wheels which will get 275/40 R17 all 4 corners ...

That was my first idea but trimming just the rubber would not give enough space. Cutting my work but I don't linke cutting a spring. As is is a safety part we better spend some money that hittig a tree or so ...

I'm located near Osnabrück: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osnabr%C3%BCck

Last winter we got not that much snow - pic is from 2012.


Btw, if you get the hood hinges zinc plated without disassembling them, they are still movable :-)

Striped, plated and coated parts:








Today we realized that the 84-87 front spring is about an inch longer that the 88-96. As we do a 85/91 hybrid we have to get a new one. Not a problem but takes a few days. So I have time to get these Remflex gaskets at the headers of my '91 ...

Bogus, that is our neigbourgs house but we have sky-tv, too. I took the last pic standing right at the house looking at the garage. At the second pic, the house are located half the way down at the left. Have another nice pic viewing down the street:





That is where we and my mom are living. I love all-wheel-drive. Did not have to get rid of the snow since we have that black AWD daily driver :-)





You can't get any R12 in Germany but there are several surrogates which do work. R413a and R437a should be fine without changing the oil.

Matak, Axel is not part of the project. It's a project of me, my wife and some local friends.


Have to get rid of a trailer full of scrap metal. Will post more pics of the car later ...

Just wanna share some pics of my wifes '85 which we started to refurbish a little. Project started almost 6 years ago and was discontinued for about 5 years ...


August 2008 - nice looking standing 20 ft away




Only driven by gravity ... hoping brakes will work ;-)




Day 2 - got the engine out ...




5 years later --> Yeaaaaah! Looking almost the same but got the hood off. A real milestone, of course ;-)
OK, moved together, got married and so on ... had to prioritize the stuff :-)




WTF ...





Got the front axle out in order to get a lot of parts zinc-plated and powder-coated. Installed new ball-joints and polybushings.
As the front was lifted already, we decided to get rid of some rust ... I like tools driven by compressed air :-)






20 minutes later ...



another 20 minutes later ...





OEM-paint turned out as gold metallic





Didn't wanna clean the dirty and rusty cross member, so we got it zinc-plated together with 75 other parts. Got them back today black powder coated. Will post pics tomorrow ...












Sold the engine, btw. The car will get a '91 engine, '91 axles and ABS-stuff. Overall condition turned out as very descent. In addition, a previous owner hit some stuff damaging almost the entire driver's side (the frame is OK), so we had to get some new parts ...

As a madman, I bought a huge ammount of parts offered near the place where I live. Had to buy all or nothing. Needed the space of three trailers and two huge rear trunks ...





Will post pics of reassembling the front axle ...

Do you know which one is shorter and how much?

Quote:

Hi,

so this is because the lower A-arms are going to be in a different position? I compared the 85 and 91 parts and the areas where the spring is in contact with the A-arm seems to be at the exact same position ...

Quote:

What is the difference? Only spring rate or length, too?

I did supply the material but it was not expensive (less that $25 per m²) and easy to get off eBay.

Was sold as a roll but if you put some books and other heavy stuff on it for a few days it will be fine.


As for the lid, I use silicone ... a PITA to get off but never got a leak.

Hi,

the laser-guy was http://www.lagratec.de/schneiden/ and two sets cost me $70 what does include setup costs of $40.

Lagratec uses a pretty small cutter like you can do at home. I'm sure there are companies around you who can laser- or watercut gaskets. Just do a google search on your city. For Chicago I found http://www.loganlasers.com

If you need CAD-Models and dxf-files of your gaskets just send me a scan or photo of a drawing on scale paper and I'll do my best getting it in the computer.

As I could not find anyone selling gaskets for the SuperRam intake in Germany, I decided to make my own ones ...

After I discovered that 1.5mm thick gasket-paper is not easy to cut I created a CAD-model of the needed set and got them cut by laser at a local company.

If anyone of you guys does need the 2D-dxf files which can be processed by a lasercutter just send me an e-mail and I will send the files to you.

Here is a pic of these DIY-gaskets:



Best wishes
Eike

Checking harness over from top to bottom is a very good idea. Does a dealer exist where you can buy a new harness for a '85 C4? I also toy with the idea changing it to a newer one, maybe late 1980 or early 1990 ...

A couple of month ago I made an airpump eliminator for my '91 Vette. I did not want to post pics until I'm sure it will work with the engine running.

A few years ago I got this off eBay:




I made a rough estimate where to get the pulley and fixed it ...






Designed a shaft and turned it 0,02mm oversized. Put it into the deep-freeze for about two hours and put the pulley on. You can see the ice still on the shaft.I placed a lock-nut infront of it just to be sure it won't come off.








Back at the car I got it aligned again and TIG-welded flat bar steel to support it. After the welding, I glass-blasted the whole thing. Of course, the pulley was protected.








Pics are old, but basically the look did not change. Of course you have to get a new belt. I cut an old one to figure out the length needed ...

Thanks to all of you for helping! Knowing where to look makes stuff quite simply ...

In fact the wire does belong to the starter. As the oil pan is bigger than stock, I did not see the empty stud.

Today I had some time to work on the car again. I found this pic in the service manual, but no orange wire at the car.




As a few pages forward there is a pic without the orange wire, I decided to ignore it.




The stud whre the purple wire does belong to: