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| KEG64 | 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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First post here on the forum, been lurking off and on for a while.
I have a 94 that is totaled, but the front and rear bumbers, interior and all the running gear are in very good condition, 52k on the car. I am considering restoring an 84 with the parts out of the 94. Complete interior, front and rear suspension, LT1 and 6sp. I would want to use an 84 since an emission test is not required here for that age of car. I have asked this question on an other forum, It was mentioned the LT1 cats will not fit in the 84 frame, the front shock mounts are a little different and mounting the hardware/brake lines for the ABS on the frame will be a pain. Any other areas where I would run into problems? Thanks |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 5:29
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| jhammons01 | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Why would LT1 cats be an issue if there is no smog for an '84?
Second, Magnaflow makes Cats in different configurations you could use. You'll need a "muffler" guy that actually knows a thing or two. Shocks? My first thoughts would be to leave that part alone and just use the '84 ABS brakes, Sounds like you are completely tearing out the entire '84 and swapping everything out. Someone will have to tell us better, I'm thinking that at some point the 94 lines give way to a rubber hose that attaches to the caliper. That is where the switch from one year to the other occurs. But I'm just guessing, I've never seen such a task. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 14:32
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| bogus | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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The chassis is similar. The bumper covers will adapt.
So will the engine and trans and rear end. No problems. If the rear is still ok on the 94, USE IT! The D44 is much superior to the D36 in an 84. You will need to bring the LT1 engine controller over and get it reprogrammed to work without the CCM. Otherwise, it won't start. The exhaust will, too, all you need to do is use the LT1 hangers and such. The brakes? that's tough. The ABS? No go, bro. Dash? don't even try. It will take you forever to get that in there and make it a) look and b) work right. There are others who will chime in on the dash swap idea. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 15:21
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| KEG64 | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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If I go ahead with this swap, my intent would be to completly strip the 84 and use the complete interior, front and rear suspension, engine, trans, brake lines and wiring harness out of the 94.
If there are some differencs in the 84 frame or body structure that would prevent this swap, such as the dash not fitting, then I would scrap this idea and go to plan B. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 17:02
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| anesthes | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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The suspension mount points are a little different and will need some work. The frame is different on the later cars, so the LT1 exhaust actually won't bolt up entirely - the front cats will not clear the frame. I tried it. Quote:
The dash is a nightmare. For what a LT1 vette goes for now he's better off buying another one. In fact, I've been looking at this nice convertible lately ('92) for $4k. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 17:03
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| anesthes | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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The dash will be close.. The few that did it made it look damn near stock. Behind the scenes, things are not stock. I started mine, then bailed. The CCM thing is a bugger for me, but hey your stuck with that on the LT1 no matter what. Another option is you use the dana44 and 6spd on your '84, and just build a high output MPFI engine. You won't have lame electronics to deal with. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 17:06
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Is the 92 frame trashed? What is the extent of the damage?
May be easier to transfer the good 84 pieces onto the 92, (including the vin.) |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 17:47
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| jhammons01 | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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oh that is blasphemy............
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 18:59
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| anesthes | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Do that around here and you get a free ride in the back of my work car. Any way of legally swapping vins in california? -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 19:07
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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used to drag race in SoCal with a guy that had an 81 body on a 68 frame.
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 19:11
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| anesthes | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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I wonder what it was registered as. I've seen truck cabs on different frames, but the cab is what is registered not the frame. I'd think the same thing applies to a C3. 6 bolts and the body lifts off the frame. Actually swapping VIN plates is a bit more difficult legally. I can't think of any way to do it in MA. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 19:58
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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At what point does it cross the line?
If I take a registered, non-salvaged 1984 Corvette, and I install a frame from another car, body, engine, etc, what's the difference? Are you telling me you're not allowed to replace a car's frame? Can I replace parts of the frame? What about 50% of it? 99% of it? What if I replace the entire car with exception of the vin tags? I don't really see where you can draw the line without the line sounding stupid. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 21:17
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| anesthes | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Well you cannot tamper with, remove, alter, or change the vin tag. period, which is what I said. Could you remove the entire body and put it on anther frame? I think so. I know if you have a 'salvage' or 'rebuildable' title you need a paper trail proving where all the parts came from before you can register the vehicle. But If you do change the VIN plates you will go to jail. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/14 23:42
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Ok, I won't change the VIN then.
I will just cut the entire rest of the car off and install a new car under the vin plate. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/15 0:09
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| bogus | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Ok... let's reassess some things... I am not really sure where to start... so here goes:
1. The LT1 engine controller can be updated with an LT1 tune from an Fbody. That will ignore the CCM. 2. The C4 is a strange psuedo-monocoque construction. You are not separating that frame from the body. 3. That 1980 with a 1968 chassis? It's a 1980. The chassis is just along for the ride. It wasn't uncommon for racers to take their fully raced out 1968 or so chassis, put a 1980 body on it and continue racing, because it still looks new... tricky, eh? 4. The cats hit? I have an LT1 in bastet44s 87, and the cats fit perfectly. 5. If you want to do ABS in a 1984, get ABS from a 1986, and adapt all the parts over. 6. It is technically feasable to put all the LT1 into the 84... but the question I have to ask is why? You would have to strip one car all the way down, then the other, and move everything over... and you are still driving a 1984, really. And that means it lacks the body structure improvements that came in 1986. 7. I suspect if you swap over the k-frame from the 94, the suspension will come with. You have to realize how the C4 was built: 1. A metal cage was welded up. 2. Inner body panels were bonded to frame. 3. Outer body panels were bonded to inner panels and frame. 4. Painted. 5. Harnesses installed 6. Interior Over in the other side of the factory, the engine, transmission, rear, suspension is all being assembled and tied up with the k-frame (engine) and c-beam. Final step? Mating the mess into one. Whew... I think I have covered it all!! |
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Posted on: 2009/1/15 2:31
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| KEG64 | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Guru Newb
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Why?
I own the 94, it is totaled, not feasable to repair. One way or the other I will be stripping it to either part it out or using the parts to rebuild another car. 84's are cheap and they no longer need emissions testing in Wa. It is an idea I am just kicking around, thats why I asked the question. Maybe finding a newer high mileage C4 would be a better way to go. I appreciate all the input. The C2's have the VIN number stamped on the frame above the rear wheel, drivers side if I remember correctly. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/15 6:25
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| bogus | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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No one checks the chassis vin. Only the one on the dash.
I agree, I would do this with a later C4. Take advantage of the improvements endemic the the chassis. BTW, emissions follow the engine. If an 84 was still being smogged, if you replace the engine with something totally different, it has to be newer or same age. For example, you can't do a 427 with tri-power. At least not legally. However, if you add a newer LSx engine, then you get the engine with the modern emissions. The car is then held to the standard of the new engine. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/15 6:41
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Well none of that matters. The 84 isn't being smogged, and he can install a coal-burning steam engine in it if he wants to.
If I stick a LS1 into a '57 Chevy, no state is going to know, let alone make me smog it. I'd be all over building up an '84 vette if it was smog exempt here! It's a lot of work, but if the smog exempt status is worth it to you, go for it. Honestly, I'm not sold on whatever chassis improvements were done. I don't think it's significant. What did they do other than add some reinforcement under the B-pillar and make the extra Z51 brackets standard? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/15 7:06
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| anesthes | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Quote:
I don't see how that is possible. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-te ... 1-exhaust-on-l98-car.html You tell me what went wrong here. The engine cannot possibly be in a different spot on the LT1 cars because the driveline wouldn't mate up. So we can assume the lt1 manifolds/headers are in the same spot. I used the offset filter, connected the cats. the right side hit the frame. Wouldn't allow it to be bolted up. (stock cats). Upon investigation, the LT1 frames had a very large dimple where the cat goes. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/15 11:25
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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I'm not seeing a big difference there, although yours does appear to have maybe 1" longer at most on the frame section in question, and the LT1 seems to have that entire area clearanced.
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Posted on: 2009/1/15 21:48
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| anesthes | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
That's the difference - on that part of the frame. So dropping in a transplant stock exhaust won't happen. The suspension stuff is a little different, cooling system, radiator mounting, etc. Most of the differences in the later cars are for the different suspension. I know the control arms and all that are different. I think bogus said you can swap the k-member but that is only part of it, assuming the bolt pattern is the same. It's a lot of work. He would be better off hot rodding the '84, or getting another LT1 car. Around here smog is anything older than '96. Visual check for cats. prior to that all of the cars were smogged on a dyno. They never really cared about what parts were there, as long as there was a cat and it passed the tailpipe test. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/16 2:53
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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I would look at reusing the 84 suspension, sans the D36, and check and see if the ABS knuckles and brakes from the 92 would fit onto it.
Other than this, there's really no worthwhile advantage to the 92 chassis. And obviously, the 6speed can go in without issues. If the LT1 cat's don't fit, get rid of them. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/16 16:20
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| jhammons01 | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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^^if it is not going to be smogged, then just get some magnaflow pre silencers and put them in the cavities...but make sure you buy one that has the same dimensions as the 84' cavity
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Posted on: 2009/1/17 4:39
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| bogus | Re: 94 to 84 compatibility ? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I would use bullet cats... they will do the silencing trick, and will keep the air cleaner.
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Posted on: 2009/1/17 5:26
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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