U.S. House budget cutters target ethanol. There is a Republican proposal to prevent the EPA from using any funds on the "E15 waivers" this year.
"I've long thought that the ethanol industry should be able to stand on it's own-not be propped up by federal subsidies", said one republican congressman.

http://thegazette.com/2011/02/19/u-s- ... t-cutters-target-ethanol/

Also, President Obama did not ask congress to extend ethanol subsidies in his budget request for 2012. The subsidies are set to expire at the end of 2011 and would cost $6 billion to extend for one year. Food prices are escalating, global demand for our corn is increasing and we are already using 40% of our corn crop on ethanol.

Enough of the great ethanol ruse.

Ahh Joe, your pushing my buttons now! You have to understand that the govt is going to subsidise farming. It can be through ethenol or just in subsidy payments to help prop up the price of corn.

The govt has declaired that we need an oxygenator in our fuels to help reach the clean air standards. Where is that going to come from if you take ethenol out of the picture? You have a production and distribution infra structure set up and in place and that has taken 30 years to bring about. Nobody is arguing that it is the most efficiant fuel to produce, it isn't but it is something we can do to help reduce dependency on foreign oil and keep the air clean.

I have been in the Ag business all my life and until ethenol came around farmers were dependent on the govt tit to make their profits every year. The only farmers who were stand alone were the ones growing seed corn for the big seed companies, and their weren't to many of those.

We have taught the rest of the world how to farm and exports are not going to be enough to keep this big wheel rolling. In the past we had feeding cattle, exports and the fructose industry as the main uses for corn. Each year as our production increased through genetics and other methods we had larger and larger carryovers. This led to the basic economics of supply and demand. Too much corn and too low of prices. So in steps the govt to keep farmers from going broke.

We are 3 to 5 years away from 300 bu averages on an acre of irrigated corn. The modern corn plant has a 6 to 700 bu potential if you could get it enough energy and food. Ethenol is not driving up the price of food, number 2 yellow is not used in a lot of food production. It feeds cattle but all they do is feed them the mash which they like better anyway. Nothing lost there.

On top of all that 6 billion is chump change to those jerks up in the beltway who can throw a trillion away on a health care bill that is already a huge mess. No, ethenol is ok for the short run and 10 years from now we will be using other crops to make the squeeze. In the meantime farmers are enjoying a market that has the govt not directly making payment to them to keep them going. Which even at its worst was far under what other countries are paying their farmers.

That's all for now, rants over!

A billion here and a billion there, pretty soon it adds up to real money. The health care bill is also under attack by the new congress that has pledged to downsize the government feed bag.
I don't think ethanol is the great oxygenator some people would have us believe.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.p ... ich-and-the-2012-election

We have a problem... MBTE, the prior oxygenate, is banned. It had a little problem with leaching from fuel tanks and killing people.

Ethanol is a viable alternative, tho, perhaps not perfect.

Ethanol is currently coming from corn, yes. But I give it a few years, and the research into saw grasses and sugar beets will change things a lot.

Brazil is doing research into sugar canes and beets, too, so given time, the output will increase.

Farming is a confusing mess in this country... and we have propped it up for many years, since the 1960s, really.

Part of the problem that is America, is our desire to help others, even if it hurts us. There is this arrogent belief that if we help others at all costs, we can afford to take care of our own. All that has turned us into a welfare state.

If we crank up our abilities to their true capacity, we will fix some of our own problems... but hurt other nations.

At what point do we stop worrying about everyone else and start focusing on our own problems?

There is enough research showing the ethanol program to be political. It's an inefficient use of taxpayer dollars, and is questionable at best in helping air quality (see CARB findings).
It is a microcosm of what is wrong with "Big Government".
Another program started with good intentions that once it gets big enough, begins to feed upon itself.
The taxpayer is left holding the bag.

Joe is it the ethenol you don't like or the fact that it has price support. To get the infrastructure built took some help. Those plants are not cheap to build and with the extra money spent on rail siddings to get the stuff shipped it has broke a lot of investors.

Right now there is a huge plant 30 minutes from here that is almost ready to start production and has been shut down for the second time. The cost of corn is to high for them to make it work even with govt subsidy. The old adage around here is that it is the 3rd owner of an alcohol plant that finally makes a profit.

What do you think we should do? How do we slow down the massive amounts of foreign oil that we slurp up at an alarming rate? There are no real good solutions other then go back to horses but then the price of hay would skyrocket. If ethenol could stand on its own would that then be ok? It's complicated as Andy says, but right now the farm sector is booming and in these tough times you have to have some winning cards somewhere even if they are up your sleave.

Let's see, free trade, free enterprise, competition, are words that are bandied about a lot. Choice would be a good place to start. I don't have that.

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BTW, what about all these "flex fuel" cars? Is GM or purchasers benefiting from government subsidies for these E85 compatible vehicles? (And yet they never see a tank of E85)

I was listening to an old farmer at the last muzzle loading shoot tell how E-85 was put in the regular tank and then in his truck by mistake. Took a while to find out what the problem was. LOL

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I believe that about unions but not ethenol. You should have a choice at the pump. Regular unlead or E10 for less money. Get even there.

Here is the problem... we have a finite supply of gasoline. That's the crux of the problem, and we keep fucking around with bad ideas to fix it.

I am a real fan of Biodiesel or even Biogas. We have a huge supply of natural gas available to us, we need to leverage that. If we did, we would be off the international system.

There is a huge oil reserve off the CA coast, but the environmenalists won't let us drill for it. I guess that's my other problem... sure, we must be weary of the health of the planet, but at what cost to the security of the people? It's a symbiotic thing, I understand that, but, if we sacrifice people for the planet, then there is no people... but if we abuse the planet, there is no planet.

However, we have more and more poor people popping out and that will require more and more food and services. Sooo... before this becomes a problem, the USA had best step upto the plate, gets it house in order and be ready to feed these throngs; and make $$ at the same time.

If all those emails we get are true about oil in Montana and Colorado, that would help. However.... Snopes says:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/bakken.asp

I am not so sure.

We also have a lack of reliable refineries in this country. Too many are exposed in Louisana and California. And when someone wants to build a new one - NIMBY! Stop whining and take one for the team, damnit.

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That's all good news but why don't we ever hear about it?
We have 2 big pipelines going through Huskerland as we speak bringing oil from those northern fields and Canada to the refineries in Oklahoma. I asked why the hell don't they build new refineries in North Dakota or Canada. I was told it is impossible to build a new refinery with the current environmental laws we have.

They are having enough trouble with just getting the pipelines through the State. It's all politics and big oil doing their thing.

http://postbulletin.typepad.com/ecoco ... /why-we-need-ethanol.html

Here is a supporting link for ethenol and I am sure there is just as many on the other side.

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Most agreed!!!

We have a financial crisis that must be fixed first.

Remove or reduce the additional restrictions placed on dino-fuel. This will get the economy flowing and start more private business research. It will also de-fund the current BS technologies thereby cutting a big chunk out of fed-funded projects and additional government to support the BS.

Eat food, burn fuel. Not the other way around.....

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We bought an 09 Tahoe with the flex fuel 5.3L engine and there was no subsidy program that went with it. We have run E85 in it and it runs good with it but does not get the milage.

Found an explanation for it..... it allows the manufacturers to skirt around the CAFE requirements a bit. And honestly I don't have a problem with that. The government restricting how many gas guzzlers GM can produce is stupid. Let the consumer decide.

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/08/01/ ... fe-credits-dissappear-in/