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| Aboatguy | Torque converter problem??? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I have had a vibration for a while now. Prior to the vibration becoming incessent I thought the torque converter was slipping under application of power (while locked)
These data logs are old but are about a week apart. differences in the slip rpm lines? Is the converter slipping or is it not locking. [IMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a342/aboatguy/datalog.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a342/aboatguy/datalog-1.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2009/1/5 0:48
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| vetteoz | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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No idea but your logs are at idle/ no road speed so there would be no TCC lockup.
Note TCC DC = 0 under what conditions does your vibration occur? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/5 11:47
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| CFI-EFI | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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Something I failed to mention previously. If you replace the converter and then plan to wait until the trans goes...Don't. If you think there is a chance that the trans will go, wait, bite the bullet, and do them both at the same time. Besides the double labor, shrapnel from one will contaminate the other. The converter is especially difficult to rinse and thoroughly clean out. Many trans companies void their warranty if you don't also install a converter. Whether there is a warranty or not, it doesn't make sense to do one if the other is soon to fail. Don't forget to flush the cooler and cooler lines at the same time.
 RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2009/1/5 19:41
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| Aboatguy | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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Good point Look at the graphs, there are speeds logged on the graphs from zero to triple digits just no scale. Pink line is TCC slip rpm. Notice in the top one nice straight section of pink (that's about 80miles an hour with single digit slip. actually from 63-83) Same area on lower one is same 80mph highway section of my drive home and slip rpm is in triple digits even with cruise on (notice how much straighter the black speed line is thats a solid 79 80?) Same graphs as first post just another data point: steady speed. smooth graph before vibration became incessant [IMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a342/aboatguy/80noslip.jpg[/IMG] vibration [IMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a342/aboatguy/80withslip.jpg[/IMG] Vibration is around 80mph which is cruising speed on my commute. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/6 1:38
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| dan0617 | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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LOL. A guy who enjoys his 'vette! I wish I could help you here but I'd likely just lead you in the wrong direction so I won't throw any advice at you. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/6 2:19
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| dan0617 | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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The more I thought about it, I may be able to help just a little. Below is a link to a gear/mph calculator. You should input all of your info, like tire size, rear gear, etc. Under the drop down window for trans choice, it doesn't list our cars so choose 93-97 F Body A4, as it is geared the same as what we have. Then hit calculate, and it will spit out a spreadsheet showing what rpms at what speed in what gear you should be at. Compare it to your actual speed and rpms. The calculator is very accurate, unless your converter is unlocked or something is slipping. I know with mine it is dead on, but if I'm at WOT with the converter unlocked (like at the top of first or 2nd gear), it is off 6-9 mph. Basically showing me that my engine is going faster than it should be for my speed, which is because the converter is unlocked and therefore "slipping".
http://www.f-body.org/gears/ |
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Posted on: 2009/1/6 12:27
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| CFI-EFI | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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It sounds to me like it is slipping while locked. I would verify that lock up is being called for and maybe even manually defeat the TCC and check for a difference to verify the problem. If there is no difference, you may just have a bad TCC solenoid. But if it is going into lock up and slipping, start shopping for a trans AND a converter, or manual conversion if you prefer.
RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2009/1/6 16:07
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| Aboatguy | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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Dan, the f-body.org calculator is great I've been using it for years. I guess I didn't make my first post clear enough fact  converter is either not locking or is slipping). If you look at the two data log snap shots at 80mph (see RPM difference, slip rpm, tps %,tranny temp etc) You can see what a locked converter slip graph looks like in the nice straight pink line even with speed changes in top graph, vice the jagged pink line at a near constant MPH in the second. I was hoping that someone would say XXX constant is missing so your brake switch is jacked up. But I believe it is ok since cruise control works fine (could be wrong is there more than one brake switch? Does the TCC DC reading mean the Torque converter should be locking and so the brake switch is good so it has to be something in the trans/converter? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/7 10:15
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| Aboatguy | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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Thanks and I appreciate your info in the PM.
I'm hoping someone will answer this.... Does the TCC DC reading shown in both logs mean the Torque converter should be locking in the second log, eliminating the brake switch as a problem, meaning I have problems in the trans/converter? Mike |
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Posted on: 2009/1/7 10:41
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| CFI-EFI | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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My car which is different electronically, has three brake pedal switches. One each for the brake lights, cruise control, and the TCC. Again, not being familiar with all the terms and items in the read out, I would manually defeat the TCC and see if the slippage is different. How, under what conditions, was the 0 slippage reading attained? RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2009/1/11 1:09
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| Aboatguy | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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My car which is different electronically, has three brake pedal switches. One each for the brake lights, cruise control, and the TCC. Aboatguy wrote: I'll have to pull knee bolster annd check out the switch/switches but that won't solve the vibration but it may fix tc not locking but I still believe answer is in the duty cycle CFI-EFI wrote: Quote:
Now it doesn't occur[/color][color=336666] zero/ish slippage was obtained prior to problem at steady(ish) speeds Now it doesn't occur[/color] |
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Posted on: 2009/1/11 2:00
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| CFI-EFI | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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What is the "IT" in "Now it doesn't occur"? "IT" can't be the slippage can it? Isn't the slippage the problem and the reason for the thread? Let me see If I understand correctly. The duty cycle must be the amount of time the ECM is calling for TCC lock up. That is an amazing coincidence that it is EXACTLY (90.19) the same in two different tests. With the DC the same and the slippage different, the conclusion I draw is that the ECM is calling for the TCC to be locked. I would run the test one more time with the TCC disconnected to see if the slippage matches. If it matches, chances are the converter isn't getting the hydraulic pressure to cause the lock. It could be a bad solenoid, a bad brake pedal switch, etc. If it doesn't match, then I would assume slippage in the converter clutches. RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2009/1/11 18:40
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| Aboatguy | Re: Torque converter problem??? | ||
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Not that much of an amazing coincidence I drive the same route everytime for my data logging . A former Guru reminded me that lots of data was recorded and I can watch other parameters/data/information. So I added TCC Enable, TCC engaged and TCC Brake. Sorry to say brake switch is working, enable and then egage are being commanded when they should be but it looks like slip rpm is unaffected. I watched the engagement and disengagement cycles on really slow speeds and I don't see a marked change in slip rpm. I guess I should have reread the datamaster manual again. I forgot that I could select the data shown. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/11 23:38
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