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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
 
Joined:
2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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3-5" of snow here in the good ole midwest - yuck!! Here is what I have so far;
1)WOT still too rich. Adjusted the PE% Change to Fuel/Air Ratio vs. RPM table back off stock settings, result; WOT is a little less rich but now initial tip in at very low rpm's at part throttle is going very lean. 2)VEMaster is really messed up, I can now read the bin file it creates with C.A.T.S. but all the new numbers in the VE tables are really wacky, all over the place, really strange. I even tried it on another computer with no better results. I have a feeling this will never be figured out?! frustrating. 3)Initial tip in is worse as 1) above but I am thinking that I will go back into PE vs rpm and increase it below 1200 rpm and cut it back some more above that hopefully that help both, we will see. One extra note, in C.A.T.S. I have adjusted the VE tables in the full graph mode. I could much more easily see peaks and troughs and smooth them out. The VE table is really smooth now and I can really tell it in cruise, the bucking is finally totally gone. nice! I still could use some help here, any knowing comments appreciated. Plus checked plugs yesterday engine is not running major lean or rich. All plugs a nice clean, tan color.
Posted on: 2013/5/3 14:27
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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Have not tried the conversion, I did try to save the data log in another format but could not find any other way of saving the file in DataMaster, anyone else know how to do this?
I have a rebuilt TB with new IAC, both are super clean, like brand new when I installed them a year ago. The hot cam does have a lope to it, and idle vacuum is around 13 at 800rpm, I think that is pretty normal for that cam. 112 lobe separation. Stock cam is 114 I believe. I don't have cats so no problem with them plugging. I did not check FP today, hopefully tomorrow. It was such a great day today I had to take the car for a nice drive. Can you explain what the fuel trim stats numbers mean, at least the basics, I have no idea what I am looking at. thanks
Posted on: 2013/4/29 3:30
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Re: Clutch Hydraulics |
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Senior Guru
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I would guess you need to replace the master, slave and the braded line between the two. On my 93 the clutch started slipping under WOT. When I would drive into the garage there would be a small puddle of oil on the floor. I checked underneath and it was leaking from the bell housing. It was the clutch slave. I just decided to replace everything after almost 20yr. I also had to replace the clutch and flywheel, went with a single mass and spring clutch discs from Carolina clutch. Hopefully your dual mass is still good. Good luck.
Posted on: 2013/4/27 13:06
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Re: Clutch Hydraulics |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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good link from ZF doc.
http://zfdoc.com/clutch_hydraulic.htm hope this is not against rules but this is a good how to; http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-ge ... on-zf6-pics-included.html
Posted on: 2013/4/27 2:41
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Re: Clutch Hydraulics |
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Senior Guru
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memory is a little foggy here, hope some others will chime in and verify if I am wrong. Got both master and slave from Rock Auto, be sure and get the cast slave and not the tube steel one. The hose I got from someone who I heard about from Carolina clutch, give them a call. Yes the slave is easily accesable from below. Before you install the slave point the valve down and gravity bleed it by allowing fluid to simply run out until no more air bubbles, keep the resivor full above, then install slave. After that pump the clutch, checking fluid level and it is designed to self bleed. There are some good guides out there, I will try and locate a link for you.
Posted on: 2013/4/27 2:30
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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Thanks a million, yes post it up for all to look over. I appreciate you stickin with me on this one, I have a ton to learn.
Posted on: 2013/4/26 23:24
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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somehow the data log won't load as an attachment?? Can I email it to you? Send me a PM with your email and I will send it.
Posted on: 2013/4/26 19:35
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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newest data log, DataMaster
Posted on: 2013/4/26 19:33
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Thanks for the reply. To be exact, WOT is rich, Initial tip in on very moderate aceleration is lean, and you are right the car at cruise (idle to 2000 rpm) is slightly lean. Wide band keeps reading at cruise 14.7 to 15.7 it almost never goes toward the rich side of the scale. I have tested fuel pressure in the past but I will check it again later today, it has always been good with very little leak down. Also new injectors from FIC, Bosh 3's at the stock 24lb rating.
Posted on: 2013/4/26 19:20
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
"was the car 'in tune' when mods were done" No, after the mods it needed to be tuned, I kinda thought that would be obvious, am I missing something here? "If the 'new BIN' was created with an out of tune engine..." Why would you create a new BIN with the engine already being in tune, what is the purpose? Maybe you missed something, I am trying to tune my engine for new mods. Maybe I am really missing something here, I must be or I would understand your comments more. "Mods are fine, BUT YOU NEED BASELINE SPECS ..." By base line do you mean the original stock tune from the factory? (grab some hair, pull some out, this gets pretty frustrating) I have no idea what you are talking about here, could you be a little more specific? Thanks
Posted on: 2013/4/26 15:32
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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here is what VE Master created.
Posted on: 2013/4/26 15:22
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9 6 2012 reduced timing, richer_vem.txtRe: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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Thanks a bunch! Is there any way you could email me a copy of your VEMaster, or send a link where you downloaded it. It's not very easy to find on the internet. It's kind of daunting thinking of manually changing the whole VE table.
Posted on: 2013/4/26 15:20
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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Thanks.
I understand 1. PE vs RPM table, ok. however 2) you lost me on this. Are you sure VE makes a new bin file because the version I have made a new text document that has to be opened with a word processor. The version of cats I have can't open it as far as I know. What are "peaks and troughs"? I presume they are related to rich and lean but how and what do they mean? Is high rich or lean? What I was trying to ask is; How does the new VE table created in the text document by VE Master get into the bin file, do you compare the two and manually make the changes? or am I missing something simple.
Posted on: 2013/4/26 1:45
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Re: tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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GIPB, thanks I was starting to feel like the lonely Maytag repair man.
Posted on: 2013/4/23 19:27
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tuning questions |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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93 vett, 6spd, hot cam, trick flow 185 heads, LT headers, 52mm TB.
I have had two pro's "tune" my car and they get close but not close enough. I am trying to tune it myself. I use cats to make changes to the chip. Here are my problems. 1) WOT is too rich, initial is running in the 10-11's then pulls back to very low 12's. Sometimes there is a hesitiation when floored, after that pulls really hard. I want to lean it out just a little at a time, how do I do that? 2)When using VE master does it make changes to the tune itself or do I have to go back into the tune and do it myself manually? 3)Initial tip in when accelerating (part throtle) is very lean, around 15.8 up into the 16's then pretty quickly settles down to 14.7 under part throttle acceleration, how can I make the initial tip in a little richer. I have a wide band installed, and I data log with Datamaster. Thanks for any help.
Posted on: 2013/4/22 13:11
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Re: TELL ME, OH WISE ONES--- |
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Senior Guru
Joined:
2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
Posts:
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I just did shocks on my 93 (100,000 miles). On the rear shocks I twisted off a bolt on the top mount where it joins the frame, a real pain to drill it out. The rest I put a little heat on and they came out fine, just saying Murphy's law is always at work when you do a "simple" job. My "old" shocks were the factory Bilsteins so went back with those. I could compress the old shocks easily by hand, the new ones are much stiffer. Floating as you say does sound like shocks, was on mine.
Posted on: 2013/1/30 15:53
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Re: LT1 PLUG WIRES - 1992 |
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Senior Guru
Joined:
2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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That is normal, those two plug wires go on cyl's 6,8 (the two most difficult to get to on the motor).
Posted on: 2012/12/3 16:41
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Re: stock timing and VE tables |
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Senior Guru
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You could also just sent the whole stock ECM bin file, whatever works best for you. I finally have my idle and part throttle VE's working pretty good, but now I am very rich at WOT, around 10.0 AFR reading on my wide band 02.
Posted on: 2012/11/17 0:34
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Re: stock timing and VE tables |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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Bogus, yes you can read your stock tables with TunerCat. If you have the ECM file on your laptop/desktop computer already you can just load it in TunerCat and then do a screen print of the appropriate tables. If not on your computer then you will have to have the Moats flash and burn program and a chip burner/reader to read the chip. Thanks
Posted on: 2012/11/16 19:48
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stock timing and VE tables |
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Senior Guru
Joined:
2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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Could someone post the stock timing and VE tables for the 93 Vett? I have somehow lost mine in all the tuning I have been trying to do on my 93, sure would appreciate it.
Posted on: 2012/11/16 15:21
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Re: Testing |
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Senior Guru
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Fantastic paint job. Can't imagine the work and $$$ that went in to it.
Posted on: 2012/9/28 18:14
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Re: VE Master |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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I can tell that VEMaster richened up my fuel tables and the car runs better but now it's a little too rich. If I could log it a few more times I think it could get my fuel map much closer to 14.4 for cruise which would be much better than the 14.7-15.4 I am getting now. WOT seems fine.
Posted on: 2012/9/25 13:04
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Re: VE Master |
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Senior Guru
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When I get my cable back maybe I'll try TP RT. I find DM easy to navigate in but so often it won't connect frist try and then you use up most or all of the "free" scans. I think if you log with TP RT you have to convert the data log to another format so VEMaster can read it. Free Scan will work with VE but I can never get mine to work, keep getting some error code and then it says it needs to shut down. Maybe I'll try redownloading it. Thanks for the help, would be impossible to do this alone.
Posted on: 2012/9/25 12:57
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Re: VE Master |
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Senior Guru
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S_C thanks for all your help, really appreciate it. Got VEMaster to work and did 2 data logs. Now my data master is messing up. It connects for a few seconds then reconnects then disconnects, very frustrating, never had this problem before. I used up 14 of my "free" logs just trying to get the thing to connect at the start, never did figure out what I was doing wrong. It's a bummer being "old" and trying to work on computers. I downloaded TunerPro RT and can't make heads or tails out of the instructions, might as well be written in Greek. Might try freescan and see how that works, anyone used it? I am trying to get rid of cam surge, it's pretty bad.
Posted on: 2012/9/21 15:31
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Re: FAST Crank Trigger Tune update |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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Does it really tune it's self as you drive?
Posted on: 2012/9/21 15:26
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VE Master |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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93 LT1 Vett. 6 spd, hot cam, trick flow heads, 355. I have downloaded VEMaster and can't figure out how to use it, did a search, not much help. Here is what I need to know;
1.When the VEMaster page starts up it asks for 4 different pieces of info. First is the ECM type, I think mine is DA2, anyone know for sure? 2.Next it asks for "logged data file", I assume this is a file logged from DataMaster right? 3.Next is "ECM file", I have no idea what that is?? 4.Last is "logged file" I have no idea what that is either?? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Posted on: 2012/9/20 16:28
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Re: Mill by Will |
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Senior Guru
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Running 11.71 @ 117 is really good on a hot cam and stock ported heads!! Who did your tune? Do you run slicks or drag radials? How do the 4.09 gears and the 3000 converter run on the street? Looks like a real nice engine build. If it were possible I'd have a motor in my living room just to look at.
Posted on: 2012/9/3 1:27
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Re: Final Stages of engine Build |
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Senior Guru
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Very nice!!
Posted on: 2012/8/5 1:58
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Posted on: 2012/8/4 22:08
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
1. Bogus, even though my motor is not stock it seems like it would not need that much timing over stock except at idle, where I can tell that bumping the timing up really helps with cam lope and off idle power. I had almost no power before the recent tune off idle, had to slip the clutch a bunch to get the car moving. 2. Yes stock computer except for moat's prom adapter. 3. How do I check for leaks at the MAP? I am running 14" vacuum at idle, not bad for hot cam I think. 4. I agree, IAC has little to do with timing. 5. Didn't degree the cam, too late for that now. GM sold tons of them, never heard of one being out, never know though. Would that effect ignition timing needed? I suppose if it was far enough out it would kill low end tq right? The motor does pull really hard from about 4000 up to 6000. I can't remember which cam install, advance or retard that increases low end power? Thanks guys, hopefully in time I'll get this worked out. Two winters ago I installed the hot cam w/o the heads, I didn't have cam surge then. Same cam now but new TF heads and bored out to 355.
Posted on: 2012/8/4 14:02
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Knock count on the last data log; 8172. I can't tell that any timing is being pulled out because of it either.
Posted on: 2012/8/4 13:52
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
What timing are you using for your car? Have you adjusted timing yourself? Did you notice that my timing goes up to 50 degrees of advance, seems like way too much to me?
Posted on: 2012/8/3 16:12
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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I am wondering if it could be my MAP sensor? Timing is tied to it (kp) in the tune, if it were reading all over the place so would the timing. I'll look at the last data log again and watch the timing relative to the MAP and see if the MAP is somewhat consent at idle or all over the place too. Any help here is greatly appreciated. I just figured the LT1 was like most other motors as to required timing advance, say around 18-22 at idle and max advance of 36-37 at WOT.
Posted on: 2012/8/3 12:52
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
I am looking at my last data log and at idle (800rpm) my timing is all over the place. It varies anywhere from 32 up to 44 (1000rpm) my max timing is 50. How can that be, I never heard of any motor requiring that much timing advance. I am running a new MSD opti. Any thoughts?
Posted on: 2012/8/3 3:10
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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I notice I am running 14" of vacuum at idle, seems kinda low for a hot cam, was thinking it should be around 16. Anybody out there running the hot cam and checked vacuum at idle, is 14 normal?
Will, do you mean Ed from PCM's for less?
Posted on: 2012/7/27 16:23
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Will, I bumped the compression up by using the Impala gasket. I believe that takes it from 10.4 stock to about 10.8 with my 355 ( 30 over bore). Would that require less timing than stock ratio or make no difference? Take a look at the tune and see what you think about the timing. I realize it's not from the data log but the tune. I am new to the data logging and am not sure how to post a data log, or even how to find it. I am using DataMaster to log with. Thanks
Posted on: 2012/7/27 3:13
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Here are some parts of the most recent data log. I guess I was trying to load to big a file, the timing looks pretty close? What do you think?
Attach file:  IMG_4510.JPG (36.06 KB) IMG_4512.JPG (70.04 KB) IMG_4513.JPG (70.32 KB)
Posted on: 2012/7/27 3:06
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
I believe it is all programmed, however I do have a MSD opti which has 5 deg. adjust-ability built in. I am trying to post pictures or my data log showing timing but can't. I'll try again soon. Thanks for the replys, I really want to get this solved.
Posted on: 2012/7/27 2:40
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
It's a 6spd. yes I have data logged it 3 times, need to learn to read it?! Is the fuel pump initial run set by the computer? I think it is but don't know for sure. I can't seem to down load pix, would like to post some. I'll try again
Posted on: 2012/7/25 1:47
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
I can see it is set to 800 in the tune but it only idles at 650 according to the tac.
Posted on: 2012/7/25 1:45
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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Yes, thanks for asking. All back together and running, have driven it about 800 mi. The power improvement is really great. But I am having what I think is a tuning problem. From idle to 2000rpm it you are crusing the car jerks. It is especially bad in 1st thru 4th gears, still noticeable in 5th, not at all in 6th. Step on the gas even a little and it goes away or off the gas and it goes away, the jerking is very annoying at steady cruise below 2000rpm. I pulled the plugs and they are carboned up with a black soot that looks like it is running rich. My tuner has tried to tune this out, this is his 3rd try and not much better. At idle the lope of the cam sounds like something much bigger that a hot cam and the smell at the back end of the car is horrible and burns your eyes.
Something else I noticed is that when I remove the filler cap for the gas tank there is no whoosh of air coming out anymore. No pressure at all. Today I checked the charcoal canister valve back by the tank, it holds pressure and air can be blown thru it like the FSM says. Also when I first turn the key on the fuel pump runs for over a minute before it shuts off, used to run only a couple of seconds. Fuel pressure is 42 and holds steady after you shut the key off. Any thoughts appreeciated.
Posted on: 2012/7/24 22:20
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Re: My '90 in B&W |
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Senior Guru
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Really nice car, that's the way the new vetts should look.
Posted on: 2012/7/4 2:42
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Re: LT1 oil pan gasket differences FYI |
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"Tom, do you remember if the VR fit at the rear main cap?
Maybe the gary ones are for a different small block timing cover/pan." No it did not fit well at the back of the pan either. I didn't lay the two gaskets back to back to compare that area, wish I would have now. I have also run into the valve cover mix up too. I am wondering if the two gaskets I got were actually for the older L98 block with the stamped steel timing cover??
Posted on: 2012/2/26 2:17
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Re: LT1 oil pan gasket differences FYI |
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The interesting thing to me about all this is the physical differences between the GM gasket and the VR. You can see if you look carefully at the lower pix that the GM (black gasket in the front) is shorter under the timing cover than the VR. Not only that but the GM gasket material that runs under the timing cover itself is actually thinner by about 1/8". When I put the VR gasket on for a dry fit the pan sat about 1/2" above the block where it should touch the rails of the block, I could stick my finger in there. When I tightened the pan down with the VR gasket the gasket bulged out in the front right under the timing cover, it was very obvious it did not seal right. That told me something was wrong and I didn't want to have to crawl under my vett after getting the motor back in to try and install another pan gasket, it is a job that will have you speaking lots of Chinese!
Also I went to the local auto parts store and looked at the Fel-pro #OS34500R and it is the same as the VR and different from the GM. and it was grey. The physical differences between the two gaskets is undeniable and obvious. I have had two of the VR gaskets now that did not fit, they came from Rock Auto. I can say that they were very good about returning the newest one that I did not install, even paying for return shipping! This could be a fluke, but I really would not want to crawl under my car EVER again to replace that pan gasket  ! I have done it twice!!
Posted on: 2012/2/24 14:52
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Re: LT1 oil pan gasket differences FYI |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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Good to know, about 1/2 the cost of the GM gasket.
Posted on: 2012/2/22 14:51
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Re: LT1 oil pan gasket differences FYI |
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Senior Guru
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I didn't actually try the fel-pro. When I saw how far off the fit of the VR gasket was I went to the local O'Rilleys and asked to see a fel-pro, it was not blue, makes me wonder if a batch of gaskets got boxed wrong?
Posted on: 2012/2/22 1:14
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Re: LT1 oil pan gasket differences FYI |
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Senior Guru
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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There must be some slight differences in motors that make the thicker gaskets leak while on other cars they are fine, a mystery??!! I forgot to mention that the lower photo shows that the GM gasket, under the timing cover is almost 1/4" thinner than the Victor Reinz, it is also thinner around the rear main seal than the VR, that is what I believe caused the leak on my car because that is where oil ran out.
Posted on: 2012/2/21 17:48
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LT1 oil pan gasket differences FYI |
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Senior Guru
Joined:
2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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Last spring I did a hot cam swap and ordered an oil pan gasket Victor Renz OS32496B (it is tied to GM part #8101086760 in the catalog) When I tried to install it (under my 93 vett, motor still in the car) it didn't look right. It started to leak immediately (yes I properly torqued all bolts). After about a month I pulled it off and covered the whole gasket, both sides with the "right stuff" and re installed. I was fine for about a month then began leaking again. This winter I rebuilt my whole motor and ordered a GM gasket # 8101086760. When installing it I noticed how the fit was much better than the Victor Renz gasket. No leaks! Here are pictures to show the physical differences between the two gaskets, they are NOT the same. One may work as well as the other in some cars, but it didn't in mine. Just trying to save someone the hassle of trying to change the gasket, especially when the motor is still in the car (if you have done it you know what fun it is) with a gasket that might not work, that is physically not the same gasket as the GM one. Hope this helps someone, wish I could of know this before and just ordered GM to start with. By the way the fel-pro gasket is exactly the same as the VR gasket and both are not the same as the GM gasket, stick with the GM if you want to be safe.
Forgot to add; VR gasket is grey, GM black. Attach file: IMG_4291.JPG (52.38 KB) IMG_4292.JPG (54.09 KB)
Posted on: 2012/2/21 15:29
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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Senior Guru
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I figured out how to get the Victor Reinz 5898 Impala gasket, go to rock auto and search for the 1999 impala and it is listed there, $18 plus change, cost 32.89 each at the local parts store here.
Posted on: 2012/2/9 19:27
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Re: putting together my 355 LT1, questions |
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2010/8/20 19:44 From missouri
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Ok, I got a Fel-Pro "impala" head gasket # 9966PT and I find it is not the thinner gasket but the .050 compressed thickness gasket. Everyone (local parts stores) cross references this FP gasket with the Victor Reinz and says it's the same but it's not. Where can I find the thinner gasket in the Victor Reinz? Need some help here, thanks.
Posted on: 2012/2/8 3:06
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