How often do you calibrate your wide band...... [Forums - C4 Technical]

C4 Technical > How often do you calibrate your wide band......
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Weavsvet	How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#1
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Just got this Innovate LM2 a week or so ago. According to the data logging file in SD card of the LM2 my AFR never got down below 15-16 at WOT. My Data logging software shows a much better reading at around 13.3 or so. I calibrated the WB just like the instructions said and came up with the calibration numbers they said I should have. My tuner is skeptical about the SD card numbers. At the moment I can't match the RPM of my data logs and the AFR but I'll have that squared away next week. So, which one do I trust? I want to go to the track tomorrow but I'm leery now about any kind of WOT run. The funny part is the car ran it's best run ever last weekend with this so called lean reading. Should I go or not?
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 15:25
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Tech	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#2
Guru Newb 25 Posts Member since: 2010/11/2 5:36	Sounds like you need to get them synched up so that you can see if they agree at other throttle positions. Even just idling in the drive way with a single throttle blip should let you know if there is an offset or not. I think the wide band should warm up fairly fast but I would still warm it up first. Also one data set may have a lot more smoothing / averaging than the other. If you running on the original narrow band its job is to see how fast it can switch between rich and lean so a fast sampling sensor will pick this up but a slow well averaged signal will just give you a nice curve that is easy to view and understand. What is your impression of the LM2? Tech
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 17:12
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Woodstock	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#3
Senior Guru Bremen/Germany 369 Posts Member since: 2008/1/15 0:00	Quote: My Data logging software shows a much better reading at around 13.3 or so. This is not a reading based on feedback, that is a commanded value, enforced by the program. In simple words, that's what it should be, best case scenario. It's like the IAC valve, commanded to do something, but no confirmation if the valve is really at that position.
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 17:21
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Steve40th	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#4
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	LM-2 are very good and pretty darn accurate. I used one before and I calibrated everytime prior to engine start up. Your tuner does run things lean, trust me ;) Check your plugs after a run
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 17:22
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mseven	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#5
Senior Guru Motor City Madhouse 247 Posts Member since: 2005/9/17 0:00	I calibrate it every time I put the sensor in the car. If, placed near the collector and there is any 02, or leaks, that will skew the numbers. If you feel that this is happening, clamp/place the 02 in the end of the tail pipe and re-test. Data master and the like are great, however the AFR shown is a target number and is not accurate. Once a car has been tuned the target afr number @wot usually appears richer than actual afr. Another thing you can look at to verify fueling direction are the narrow band 02 mv.numbers. 12.5:1 approx. equals .900 mv. While this is not the most accurate method of analysis of actual afr, it does offer a reference point.
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 17:26

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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#6
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: Tech wrote: What is your impression of the LM2? Tech Thanks for your input!I like it very much! I had a LM1 a while back and this is much better than it. As I mentioned I'm getting the proper cables next week to incorporate it's info it into my data logging software. I'll know more about it's performance then. They come highly rated though like Steve mentioned. I warm it up every time before cranking the car. Just takes a few seconds.
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 18:23
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#7
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: mseven wrote: I calibrate it every time I put the sensor in the car. If, placed near the collector and there is any 02, or leaks, that will skew the numbers. If you feel that this is happening, clamp/place the 02 in the end of the tail pipe and re-test. Data master and the like are great, however the AFR shown is a target number and is not accurate. Once a car has been tuned the target afr number @wot usually appears richer than actual afr. Another thing you can look at to verify fueling direction are the narrow band 02 mv.numbers. 12.5:1 approx. equals .900 mv. While this is not the most accurate method of analysis of actual afr, it does offer a reference point. So it is probably lean then, right mick? Guess I better stay home tomorrow then.
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 18:25
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#8
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: Woodstock wrote: Quote: My Data logging software shows a much better reading at around 13.3 or so. This is not a reading based on feedback, that is a commanded value, enforced by the program. In simple words, that's what it should be, best case scenario. It's like the IAC valve, commanded to do something, but no confirmation if the valve is really at that position. Got it! Thanks
	Posted on: 2010/11/26 18:27
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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mseven	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#9
Senior Guru Motor City Madhouse 247 Posts Member since: 2005/9/17 0:00	Quote: Weavsvet wrote: So it is probably lean then, right mick? Guess I better stay home tomorrow then. Mike, I if I had to guess I would say yes. Skipping the track or wringing the motor out should wait until you know with certainty what is going on. If it is truely at 15+ @wot then that is way lean. I try to be around 12.7-13.0:1. What are you using for datalogging? If I could look at your datalog wot run I could tell you more from the n.b. 02 m.v. numbers.
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 0:44

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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#10
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Mick I use a program called ECMPRO. I doubt you can open the log unless you just happen to have their software. The best I could do is a Excel document or a screen shot of the log at WOT.
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 0:51
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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mseven	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#11
Senior Guru Motor City Madhouse 247 Posts Member since: 2005/9/17 0:00	Quote: Weavsvet wrote: Mick I use a program called ECMPRO. I doubt you can open the log unless you just happen to have their software. The best I could do is a Excel document or a screen shot of the log at WOT. I thought you were flashing the 96 ecm. The only 96's I have worked on have the 94-95 ecm like jonecaps. I should be able to see enough from an excell doc.(a screen shot is too small of a piece of info). Providing of course the spread sheet shows rpm and the 02 mv. Not sure if my profile shows my email but if you want I can pm you and check it out tonight.
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 1:05

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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#12
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: mseven wrote: Quote: Weavsvet wrote: Mick I use a program called ECMPRO. I doubt you can open the log unless you just happen to have their software. The best I could do is a Excel document or a screen shot of the log at WOT. I thought you were flashing the 96 ecm. The only 96's I have worked on have the 94-95 ecm like jonecaps. I should be able to see enough from an excell doc.(a screen shot is small of a piece of info). Providing of course the spread sheet shows rpm and the 02 mv. Not sure if my profile shows my email but if you want I can pm you and check it out tonight. Didn't see your email. PM me if you want and I'll work on getting you something to look at. Thanks!
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 1:08
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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mseven	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#13
Senior Guru Motor City Madhouse 247 Posts Member since: 2005/9/17 0:00	no problem...pm sent
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 1:19

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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#14
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Didn't get the PM. I sent you one.
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 1:43
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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mseven	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#15
Senior Guru Motor City Madhouse 247 Posts Member since: 2005/9/17 0:00	got it and the email..workin on reading it
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 2:54

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mseven	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#16
Senior Guru Motor City Madhouse 247 Posts Member since: 2005/9/17 0:00	Mike, Sorry this took so long...I ended up looking at it this morning before work. After reviewing the screen shots and the excel it appears that you are roughly at .915 (n.b. 02 m.v.), and I would consider that safe. However, entering wot could use a little more fuel (a tad lean I would add ae/pump shot, or at the table). Bank to bank the one side is a tick low/lean 878ish/915 and I would work that area a little more (add fuel). The timing hitting 38* up on top may cause a small amount of power loss instead of gains (not to mention potential detonation). When you actually dyno it you will probably end up around 34-36* max. As to innovative lm2, since I believe you calibrated per their instructions, a couple of possibilities cone to mind. Possibly a pin hole leak at the bung weld,(leaks in general near the sensor), or the lm2 needs to be re-calibrated by innovative. Another test you can do is to clamp/install the 02 from the LM in the tail pipe. If the readings are still not lining up than I would contact Innovative and let them re-calibrate or check out the unit. BTW...you don't need to wring out the rpm that hard for testing..LOL hope this helps, Mick
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 20:57

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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#17
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Hey, Thanks a bunch Mick! Any help you can give is always very much appreciated. There is usually a tick different in voltage from one 02 another all the time. Bank 1 usually being the low one. The wb is in Bank 2 though. But like you said this is just a small frame of the log. As far as the wb goes it's brand new and I just recalibrated it this afternoon for the second time. Same numbers as last time 29.8 and hits 29.9 every two seconds or so in fresh air. According to the instructions that is close enough. The sync cables will be here next week so I'll be able to match this with some rpm. That should help Solomon figure it out. The log was a actually a 1/4 mile run, that is why the rpm is so high. I don't hold anything back.
	Posted on: 2010/11/27 21:22
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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bam	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#18
Senior Guru missouri 250 Posts Member since: 2010/8/20 19:44	Mike, what did you run last time you were at the track? Must of been pretty good since you said it was one of the best yet.
	Posted on: 2010/11/29 3:23

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mseven	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#19
Senior Guru Motor City Madhouse 247 Posts Member since: 2005/9/17 0:00	Quote: Weavsvet wrote: Hey, Thanks a bunch Mick! Any help you can give is always very much appreciated. You're welcome...keep us updated, I would be interested in the LM-2 report.
	Posted on: 2010/11/29 17:00

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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#20
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: bam wrote: Mike, what did you run last time you were at the track? Must of been pretty good since you said it was one of the best yet. 12.2 @110.99 I'm calling it 111, lol
	Posted on: 2010/11/30 22:47
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#21
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Still stuck...... The inductive clamp cable won't work on my car. Innovate said it's most likely picking up to much noise and giving a slow response rate. So now I have to connect a analog cable I have to the coil to see if that will work. Always something aint it.
	Posted on: 2010/11/30 22:50
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#22
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Can any of you guys tell me which two wires('96)in the coil plug I need to splice into to get a analog rpm signal?
	Posted on: 2010/12/1 8:20
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#23
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	No one..........
	Posted on: 2010/12/1 21:48
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#24
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Ok, here is what I have. I'm not exactly sure about the rpm though if the tach is any comparison. This file log seems low. I'm still working on it...... Attach file: WOT AFR log 12-1-2010-Session 1.csv Size: 9.81 KB; Hits: 126
	Posted on: 2010/12/1 22:50
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Steve40th	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#25
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	Quote: Weavsvet wrote: Ok, here is what I have. I'm not exactly sure about the rpm though if the tach is any comparison. This file log seems low. I'm still working on it...... Mike, I could never get the LT1 crap to work with LM1. Alvin at PCMFORLESS has got the rpm adapter thing to work with LM's. My OBD1 is painful, especially with a DELTEQ igntion now. Not much support. I couldnt even get the rev light to work with it. But, When I did use the LM1 it was .1 off from the dyno shops wideband, on same side, same dyno same dyno day.
	Posted on: 2010/12/2 2:30
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pr0zac	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#26
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	i am looking into getting the OT-1 and an LC-1. seems like a more reliable setup without having to splice into my harness.
	Posted on: 2010/12/2 15:01
	_________________ 96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit.
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#27
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: Steve40th wrote: [quote] Mike, I could never get the LT1 crap to work with LM1. Alvin at PCMFORLESS has got the rpm adapter thing to work with LM's. My OBD1 is painful, especially with a DELTEQ igntion now. Not much support. I couldnt even get the rev light to work with it. But, When I did use the LM1 it was .1 off from the dyno shops wideband, on same side, same dyno same dyno day. I emailed Alvin at PCMFL and he has no idea of what I was referring to. Do you have a better description of what this adapter thingy is? Or even a link would be great!
	Posted on: 2010/12/2 17:21
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#28
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pr0zac wrote: i am looking into getting the OT-1 and an LC-1. seems like a more reliable setup without having to splice into my harness. It probably is Josh. Seems like I always pick the wrong shit!
	Posted on: 2010/12/2 17:23
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Steve40th	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#29
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	Quote: Weavsvet wrote: Quote: Steve40th wrote: [quote] Mike, I could never get the LT1 crap to work with LM1. Alvin at PCMFORLESS has got the rpm adapter thing to work with LM's. My OBD1 is painful, especially with a DELTEQ igntion now. Not much support. I couldnt even get the rev light to work with it. But, When I did use the LM1 it was .1 off from the dyno shops wideband, on same side, same dyno same dyno day. I emailed Alvin at PCMFL and he has no idea of what I was referring to. Do you have a better description of what this adapter thingy is? Or even a link would be great! Its the rpm converter to log with the LM-2
	Posted on: 2010/12/2 19:13
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#30
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Just wanted to come back and follow up here. Calibrating the wb again fixed the unusually high AFR readings. Steve, I still haven't heard back from Alvin about the rpm converter. I believe I'll have it squared away though when I get the plug for the DST cable. That will let me feed the analog signal from the wb out of the LM2 to my logging software via the DST cable. Hopefully....
	Posted on: 2010/12/3 17:20
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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Weavsvet	Re: How often do you calibrate your wide band......	#31
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: mseven wrote: Quote: Weavsvet wrote: Hey, Thanks a bunch Mick! Any help you can give is always very much appreciated. You're welcome...keep us updated, I would be interested in the LM-2 report. Mick, here is a screen shot of my latest log. It's in Microsoft Word format Uploaded one from today. Attach file: Logworks screen shot.docx Size: 81.15 KB; Hits: 159 12-4-2010 WOT AFR.docx Size: 98.92 KB; Hits: 159
	Posted on: 2010/12/4 14:12
	_________________ 1996 Corvette Coupe,AFR 195 street Eliminators,Edelbrock LT4 Air Gap intake manifold,9.5" 2800 stall,TPIS LT headers,Bullet 226/230.565.565/111 lsa cam,1.7 Scorpion rr's,EWP, X Pipe, Stock Exhaust,Elec.Cutouts,Dana 44/3.45, Tune by Wester's Garage
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