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| 92VetteChick | Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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Hi All, Just got my smog and this is what I have been told failed:
HC- Max should be 110 measure was 126. CO% max .71-measure is .93 NO(PPM)- Max 772 measure 711. This failed at 15 mph and 25 mph. The vette has 102,000- and I'm passed due on my oil change (which I'm getting-I know, I know!) and I'm getting new plugs. We've changed out the belt, the opti, the water pump, harmonic balancer. Where do I start? My mechanic is looking into it for me and is hinting to new cats.. any ideas? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/5 6:09
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| bogus | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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sounds like your mechanic wants to charge you money for no good reason.
if the plugs are original AC Delco Platnums, or, at the very least, have more than 40k on them, it's time to replace. The NOx makes me think the car idled too long. An overheated cat will raise NOx. You can honestly expect the cats to last about 125k to 145k miles. Give or take. Unless they are rattling, there is no reason to replace. The Hydrocarbons are not that high... that's why I think new plugs will do it. Replace with NGK Platnum plugs. these rock. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/5 6:55
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| toptechx6 | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Looks like you just missed passing. An oil change and new plugs may make it happen.
If not, before replacing the cats which will be costly, my suggestion would be to find someone who specializes in emission failures and has a five gas analyzer. The initial diagnostic charge may be higher than the "by guess and by gosh" tech but it could save you money in parts, Good luck, let us know how you make out. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/5 9:46
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| Ramrod | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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I have 120,000 + on my 96 and have passed two smog checks? Of course I've changed plugs, wires, Optispark, Chevron injector cleaner, EGR valve oh and of course SEAFOAM! :thumbleft:
With the same cats & premium fuel |
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Posted on: 2008/2/6 2:26
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| Jer | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Guru Newb
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Other things that could help in addition to tune up and oil change:
-Clean throttle body with throttle body cleaner -Change/clean air cleaner -Pump up rear tires to max pressure (less rolling resistance...not sure if this does much but free to try!) -A bottle or two of Heet or other alcohol based water remover evidently helps (too much is supposed to mess up the cats) -Make sure engine is really warmed up. I always drive the car a bit and let it idle at the smog shop while I am waiting. Hot cats work better. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/6 4:27
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| bogus | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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too much alcohol won't harm the cats... Cars are running on E85 without issue. It's too much lead that will harm cats.
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Posted on: 2008/2/6 5:57
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| Jer | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Is E85 the same type of alcohol in Heet? I read a story where a guy put too much Heet in his tank to pass emissions and it damaged his cats. If this is not the case, it would be interesting to know if running straight alcohol helps emissions.
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Posted on: 2008/2/7 23:15
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| jhammons01 | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Senior Guru
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Shew !!!!
Yes Change your oil and maybe fresh Headlights...... The only thing I saw that would I would agree with was the Heat thing. Yes, Drive your car a few miles and make sure it is up to running temps......and maybe wait for a good Santa Ana to be blowing where the outside temp is hot. What we are trying to do here is get what is left of your CAT good and hot. I would also check the Smog pump to see if any of the hose fell off, or was restricted. If none of these things help, A REAL muffler shop (not Midas) can put a nice High flow CAT on your car from Magnaflo in 30 minutes and charge you $300 for the CAT and installation. The CAT is only coated screen mesh that gets glowing hot from the super heated exhaust gas Once this screen is glowing the unburned Aromatic Hydrocarbons hit and burn.....convert on the Catalyst and the fumes are friendly and lovely.... Understand, after so many miles that screen mesh deteriorates. If you wanna change your oil or Rotor Cap or Windshield Wipers go ahead. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/8 0:18
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| MK 82 | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Senior Guru
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Do we have a "hide the avatar" button?
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Posted on: 2008/2/8 0:28
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_________________
96 CE Roadster LT4 |
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| jhammons01 | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Quote:
Do we have a "hide the avatar" button? HA!! I to stop and think for a moment.....that Cat is disgusting |
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Posted on: 2008/2/8 1:29
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| bogus | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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stick to topic, guys!
If we have a problem like this, either PM the member or a moderator. Thanks! |
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Posted on: 2008/2/8 3:48
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| Ramrod | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Senior Guru
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Did ya ever find out what the problem was? I'm rolling up on a test myself, and was curious if you had to change cats?
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Posted on: 2008/2/9 5:18
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| MK 82 | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Is E85 the same type of alcohol in Heet? I read a story where a guy put too much Heet in his tank to pass emissions and it damaged his cats. If this is not the case, it would be interesting to know if running straight alcohol helps emissions. Now that avatar just makes me want to hug someone. Welcome aboard! |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 3:24
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_________________
96 CE Roadster LT4 |
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| Ramrod | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Senior Guru
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There is a similar Avatar, Bart Simpson dropping his drawers, much better taste if you ask me.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 16:27
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| bogus | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Shew !!!! An OC won't hurt... but I don't see it helping, either. Quote:
This is what I think is wrong, actually. There was TOO much heat. Whenever the NOx gets THAT high, the cats are actually overheating. Quote:
Ok, lemme try this one again... the air pump is designed to pump in cool fresh air into the exhaust to help light off the cats during cold start. In short, the air pump has little effect on warm air emissions. Quote:
The LT1 uses 2 high flow cats, welded to the downpipes. They are much more efficient than the L83/L98 based system. Quote:
It's more than a screen. It's actually a matrix. That screen you see when looking in, actually passes the entire length of the cat! It's a brick with hundreds of little tubes, coated in a platinum alloy. The matrix can be either metal or ceramic. The mesh does not so much as deteriorate, the matrix simply collapses and/or clogs up. Quote:
The rotor cap might help... the optispark is prone to misfires with a bad cap/rotor... |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 21:07
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| jhammons01 | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Too much heat?
It is just a screen or matrix. it gets hot and that heat attracts a molecule to it. once the unburned aromatic hydrocarbon molecule hits, it burns/converts. The Smog pump is to pump Air in there. Some say it is to assist the "Matrix" in staying hot. Others say it is to lower the PPM by increasing outside air. I think it is there to assist in the burning. And Two smaller CATS in the down pipe May cost a bit more than one large one for $300 installed.....but the principle is the same. And don't let me catch you at Midas. Fantasy Muffler in Buena Park to be exact. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 21:31
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| bogus | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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yes, too much heat.
NOx is a result of combustion heat. That has been a real sticking point with deisel engines, because they have such high compression engines (22:1!) and high compression = high combustion heat. Now, take heat and add it to the cats... the cats are only able to deal with so much NOx before they reach critical mass, and the temps rise and the NOx rises with it. It's a fine balance. EGR means Exhaust Gas Recirculation. It takes a touch of exhaust gas and pumps it into the intake. That trick lowers compression temperatures. The two net results is less detonation and lower NOx. There is a big difference between a "screen" or a "matrix." At least in automotive terms. A screen to me is just that, a thin layer of mesh - much like a screen door. A matrix is much thicker. The air pump is strictly for providing fresh air to light off the cats faster. It isn't designed to dilute exhaust gases, simply because doing that would mess up the O2 sensors! Think about it for a minute... the O2 sensors are looking for a certian percentage of gasses, and if you add more, essentially uncontrolled, gasses would really cause the O2 to blow a gasket! Now I guess they could send air to the cat only, but I am saying this because I don't remember the layout of the L98 air system... Remember, when cold, the engine is running off of internal tables, so the O2 sensor isn't doing anything. Also, the LT1 does NOT have a dedicate air line to the cats, that ended in 1991 with the end of the L98. The LT1 had an air line on the manifold ONLY. And it was a collective air dump between the two middle exhaust ports. Put fresh air into that and the O2 sensors would really barf. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 22:51
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| MK 82 | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Senior Guru
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Most newer systems do not employ air injection. Instead, they provide a constantly varying mixture that quickly and continually cycles between lean and rich to keep the first catalyst (NOx reduction) from becoming oxygen loaded, and to keep the second catalyst (CO oxidization) sufficiently oxygen-saturated. They also utilize several oxygen sensors to monitor the exhaust, at least one before the catalytic converter for each bank of cylinders, and one after the converter. Some systems contain the reduction and oxidation functions separately rather than in a common housing air. Bogus is right about the air injection. It is done for a short time after startup and in open loop.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 23:06
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| 92VetteChick | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Guru Newb
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Okay... here's an update..
Haven't yet put on Cats- but did find out that the Air Injector Pump died- $360.00 burial for the old part (and OEM part installed). The hose that goes to the air pump from the manifold (I think this is right- sorry) was LOOSE: the mechanic retightened that too. Got an oil change, didn't think I'd need wires- 2 years ago I bought a set of Taylors - while changing the plugs this time(got the NGK <= thanks by the way), the wires were frayed- and NOT Taylor- I wish we had a section where Shops that did people wrong could be listed- because I have a name that belongs on THAT list) as a matter of fact, old AC/Delco plugs were pulled out. She runs GREAT now - I'm planning to get the SMOG next week. If it's cats- we're gonna have to wait or win the lotto soon. Found out I'm going to need some suspension work- and of course, I'm needing tires.. (When it rain- it pours). That'll be another thread where I hope I can get some great advice. Thanks everyone for your input.. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 20:35
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| JrRifleCoach | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Run the fuel tank down to 1/4 and add a 1/2 pint of denatured alcohol. Bring the car in hot.
Most of the shops will recommend a new cat because it will reduce the levels to a passing grade. Even if it doesn't need to be replaced it will help you pass the test. Just like adding alcohol.......... |
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 21:17
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| bogus | RE:Failed CA Smog Test | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
Okay... here's an update.. The plugs and wires were the problem... the airpump won't effect op temp emissions. The cats are NOT expensive... figure $70 each from CarSound or Random Tech... I am guessing that $300 will do both, installed. However, I feel you WILL pass. And what kinda suspension work do you need? As for tires, check out www.tirerack.com and the Kumho line... good stuff for a great price. Remember - Specialists will rape you. Shop around!!!! |
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 21:50
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