OK, so here's the deal. I installed the new superram intake on the car and took it out for a test drive. Everything is in order, tv cable set, etc. First off, I have to say the new intake makes a lot more power than the old one. I think that might have some effect on this issue. When I had the trans built with the motor swap, I told him to build it for 400 hp. I think he just used stock clutches, etc. Hey, for the price I paid I can't complain. My trans was on its way out anyway. Fast forward about 8 or 9000 miles to now. Those miles were behind my 383 stroker with modified SLP runners and big mouth base - no slouch either.

This is what I experienced tonight. The car is making sick power. Really great and I'm happy about it. But now if I give it full throttle the car tachs up to 4600 or 4800 rpms and the car barely moves forward. I experienced it in both 2nd and 3rd gear. Doesn't matter if it's a standing start or rolling. If I'm going 30 mph (for example) and hit the throttle to the floor, it just tachs up and doesn't go. However, if I lightly roll in to the throttle, it pulls like a freight train with no slippage.

I tried to make a couple videos but with my cell phone camera and at night it's crappy quality. The video has a hard time keeping up with the digital dash changing.

This is the first video. I am in third gear. I start out at 30 mph and 2100 rpms. I hit the throttle hard. The tach quickly moves up to 4700 rpms and I barely move forward before I let up, hitting about 36-37 mph. I make a second pull from 35 mph and zero throttle (about 1400 rpms) to full throttle instantly. I tach up to about 4700 rpms again without moving forward, maybe 37 mph. I then do a third pull with moderate throttle. I move up to 4500 rpms and hit about 68 mph with no issues.



This is the second video. I am in second gear. I am starting around 25 mph and hit the throttle hard to the floor. The motor tachs up from about 1700 rpms to 4600 rpms almost instantly and the car only slowly moves forward, increasing in speed about 10 mph. I have to cut the gas quickly since I don't want to hurt anything. This all happens by the :05-:06 second mark. Like I said, it's fast so you might need to watch it a few times, and try to pause it around the :05 second mark. In contrast that is followed by me moderately depressing the pedal and getting a good pull with no slippage or spikes in the rpms and hitting 52 mph at 3700 rpm in short time:




When the motor tachs up, it's less than a second total start to finish because I don't want to leave it hanging there like that at high rpms and not going forward.

I plan on checking the fluid tomorrow to see if it is burnt, etc. I might stop by the trans shop of the guy who built it and see what he thinks. I might add some lucas oil and drive it until it dies...lol. I don't know the actual problem yet. I have read it could be clutches, torque converter, valve body....well those are all miles apart from each other. I'm no trans expert and I don't claim to be one. So give me your thoughts.

Matthew

torque converter??? Where's Pete?

Quote:
Mine did similar when I blew the sprag out of the convertor

If properly set, the band (active for 2nd and 4th gear), is damn near bulletproof. I have a couple of friends making in excess of 600 hp and 500 ft lbs through a stock servo/band set up.
3-4 pack has always been as weak link, but having both fail together is rare.
I would lean towards a line pressure problem, or a broken sprag in the converter.

Either way. Stop driving it. every time you whack the throttle, you may be tearing up a part of an otherwise decent core.

Wow. Thanks to Vetteoz and Pete. I believe that the torque converter is a very likely culprit. This was not a high performance converter, imho. It was built by a local company (would it be ironic if that broke since their name is "performance plus torque converters"?). If you remember about a year ago I posted another thread with my suspected trans problems....my first thought was torque converter.



Do you think it's ok to drive it if I don't beat on it and drive it carefully?

Matthew

Although this is a sales website, it kind of explains what a sprag is on a torque converter:

http://transmission-specialties.com/Spragless.html

http://www.killerrons.com/transmission.cfm

I found this online on a random site...apparently it was on an s10 site, but I don't have an original link:


Common failures on 4L60E, symptom -> cause -> any possible repair:

1. Slow, slipping or no reverse: “lo-reverse” clutches are worn out, fluid leak in the reverse apply circuit, or broken sunshell. It is possible to remedy a fluid problem by removing the checkball from its cage in the case in the rear of the trans may help (must remove valvebody), or adding a high-viscosity additive such as Lucas Transmission additive or other seal restorer product. May also have worn boost valve (can replace in the pan).

2. 1-2 shift does not happen at WOT until you let off the gas: Best case: try replacing the TPS. Middle case: leak in the 2nd gear apply circuit (servo assembly or 1-2 accumulator). Doublecheck by using the pressure gauge and watch for a big drop when the PCM commands 2nd gear. Worst case: poor line pressure rise (see below).

3. 1-2 Shift shudder at WOT; delayed or abnormal 1-2 shift; There's a problem ONLY on the 1-2 shift: 1-2 accumulator piston cracked or stuck cocked in the bore. Check the yellow spring inside the accum housing for breakage. Also, if the accumulator housing walls are scored, the housing must be replaced. Easy fix in the pan.

4. 1-2 shift is delayed and harsh, may not shift into OD: Check TPS for smooth and linear electrical response over the entire range of motion. If not, replace.

5. Trans does not upshift out of first, speedometer reads zero at all times: VSS failure. Easy fix on rear of transmission, but xmember must come out to access VSS.

6. No 3rd or 4th gear: “3-4” clutches are worn out. R&R. The car is safe to drive (in 2) until you can get it fixed.

7. Sudden grinding noise with no prior warning primarily in 2nd gear, behavior in reverse may be abnormal; sunshell is fractured. R&R. Try not to run or drive the car or further damage could result.

8. 1st and 3rd only, no 2,4 or R; sunshell is fractured or splines are sheared off. R&R. Try not to run or drive the car or further damage could result.

9. No 2nd or 4th gear. 2-4 band is slipping. Servo seals may be damaged (can be fixed without removing trans. Otherwise, 2-4 band is worn out. R&R.

10. Trans shifts into gear harshly, 3rd gear starts, manual 2nd available but no 1st, no 4th, and no TCC lockup: No power to transmission, or trans is in limp-home mode. Check trans fuse underhood, and make sure transmission electrical connector is plugged in. Easy fix.

11. No 1st or 4th available; trans shifts 2nd to 3rd by itself in D or OD : ShiftA solenoid failed. Easy fix in the pan. Or a wiring problem from PCM to trans.. or PCM.

12. No 2nd or 3rd available: ShiftB solenoid failed: Easy fix in the pan. Or a wiring problem from PCM to trans.. or PCM.

13. No TCC lockup: Brake pedal switches improperly adjusted (always on), TCC solenoid failed (easy fix in the pan), TCC clutch worn out (must remove trans and replace TC).

14. TCC always locked: TCC apply solenoid circuit shorted to ground, TCC solenoid blockage (easy fix in pan), or TC broken (must remove trans and replace TC).

15. Horrible noise in 4th and feels like the brakes are on: overrun clutches are applying due to a cracked or leaking forward piston. Overrun clutches will be worn out after 30 seconds of this behavior. Car can be safely driven in D. R&R.

16. Soft shifting, gradual performance degradation: Poor line pressure rise due to leaking boost valve, clogged EPC filter screen, failing EPC solenoid, or worst case: leaky seals throughout. Transgo HD2-C kit fixes first two without removing trans. Seal restorer may fix last problem, but probably R&R. Also try a transmission flush with BG brand products (Firestone stocks it).

17. No forward movement in OD or D, but L2, L1 and R work: Forward sprag is broken. R&R. Try not to run or drive the car or further damage could result.

18. Extremely harsh shifts from P or N, normal shifts at WOT: EPC (Electronic Pressure Control) solenoid failed. Easy fix in pan. Fix as soon as possible or hard parts will eventually break.

19. Loud bang, grinding sound, loss of all gears, and a binding driveshaft: snapped output shaft. Try to wiggle driveshaft - if more than 0.020" play, that's the sign. R&R.

20. Trans seems noisy when moving in 1st and Reverse, noise goes away instantly if you shift to N or the trans goes into 3rd gear: Reaction planetary is worn out due to high miles or insufficient lubrication. Not a critical failure, but not a good sign either. R&R sooner rather than later.

21. No movement in any gear: pump failure, or total loss of fluid. R&R, or refill pan and find the leak. If out of fluid, avoid running the engine until the trans is refilled to avoid pump damage. To check for pump failure, check fluid level with the engine off, then start the engine and recheck fluid level. If level does not go down when engine is running, the pump is broken.

22. Transmission does not shift automatically, only manually. Swap in a known-good PCM, check wiring, check other sensors such as VSS and TPS.

23. 3rd gear starts, can manually shift through all gears. When car has been turned off for a bit, then back on it will run normally.: VSS dropoff w/ Hi-stall converter. The rpms are too high, but VSS is showing no movement. Happens after a tire burning take-off. Doesn't store a code, will not throw a CEL (I've heard that it will store a code if it happens 3 or more times). Cure: Reprogram PCM for VSS dropoff -- PCMforLess knows about it.

24. Car feels sluggish off the line, No 1st, 4th or TCC lockup available, Manual 2nd, 3rd and Reverse are only available gears, CEL is on: Transmision is either in limp-home mode or has lost electrical power. If there are lots of error codes in the PCM, check the underhood fuse that powers the transmission, and if it pops again, look for a short in that circuit like an O2 sensor harness touching exhaust. Otherwise, check PCM codes for a particular fault in the transmission causing the PCM to put it in limp-home mode.

25. Fluid leak out of the front of trans where the converter connects; partial or full loss of movement: Front pump bushing walked out. R&R. May have to replace converter also if hub is scored. Note that a leaking front seal usually means the bushing is walking out (i.e. call your local trans shop and schedule an appt.).

26. Torque converter shudder in 4th while lockup is engaged; problem goes away when the brake pedal is pressed slightly to unlock converter. Have a shop verify line pressure, and provided no valves in the TCC hydraulic circuit are worn, replace the torque converter. Also, Lubegard Shudder Fix will at least fix this for awhile. Or try a transmission flush by a shop that uses BG brand products.

27. Shift suddenly become very hard. When going from park to either reverse or drive it slams into gear. 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are also harsh. All gears seems to work. Problem may be intermittent: Check TPS for smooth electrical response. If the response is jumpy or erratic at all, replace TPS.

28. All fluid pumped out through the vent tube: Plugged cooler line. Flush the transmission cooler and cooler lines. Also could be overfiled transmission.

29. Car acts like it's in OD in neutral, car is locked stationary in R, engine feels loaded in P, all four forward positions work fine:Internal crossleak feeding the forward clutches all the time. Most likely a cracked input housing. R&R required. Car can safely be driven gently in forward gears until the repair.

30. Needle bearings in the pan, first gear and/or reverse may be noisy: Either a torrington bearing or a planetary bearing is on its way out. Trans will eventually die a loud, catastrophic death. Cheaper to rebuild now (saves further damage to hard parts), but requires R&R. It is drivable until it breaks.

31. 1-2 or 2-3 shift is slow/soft above part throttle: Trans is on its way out. R&R.

This one really interests me:

26. Torque converter shudder in 4th while lockup is engaged; problem goes away when the brake pedal is pressed slightly to unlock converter. Have a shop verify line pressure, and provided no valves in the TCC hydraulic circuit are worn, replace the torque converter.

Even with the old intake package, the trans would chug/shudder around 40-43 mph when the od engaged. I would drive it in 3rd instead around town to avoid this. Everyone always said it was just cam surge...but only happened in od.

Last night when I was driving it around 40ish and the od engaged, the trans/car was shaking/chugging really bad...at least 2-3 times as pronounced as before. I put it back in 3rd and the shudder disappeared.

sure does smell like a torque converter...

get the line pressures tested and see what happens.

I'm gonna talk to my buddy about using his shop lift to pull the trans. I don't want to do it on my back again. I might just pay him to do it. He also has a supposedly awesome trans guy that does it professionally (day job) and at home in his garage for friends at night and on the weekends. This guy has done several transmissions for his shop as well as a couple for him and his employees personally. Prices are supposed to be very fair and he'll build it with any parts you tell him. I'll get a new torque converter...maybe from Pete since I know his source is high quality. The wheels turn slow, but once they get going this project will be on fast forward.

Giving it to a trained professional is one of the things I do best. Sometimes the benefits outweigh the $$$.

Quote:
Hey Pete, as always your posts are full of great adivces....expecially the ones about transmissions.
BTW I need to contact you. I sent you MANY PM's. Please contact me via PM.
Thanks
-Beppe-