B.C. budget creates a carbon tax
DIRK MEISSNER Canadian Press
February 19, 2008

Story Link

"The carbon tax , effective July 1, will be phased in over five years to
give consumers and businesses time to adjust to the new tax and
understand there is a cost associated with generating harmful greenhouse
gases, she said.

The carbon tax will start at a rate based on $10 per tonne of carbon
emissions and rise $5 a year to $30 per tonne by 2012, Ms. Taylor said.
The tax works out to an extra 2.4 cents on a litre of gasoline, rising to
7.24 cents per litre of gasoline by 2012."

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Oh great, I knew it was only a matter of time. Maybe heavy breathers should pay more too.

And there you have it. Follow the money.
In the 70s, it was global cooling, an ice age coming. But no money to be made off of that. So... bingo, global warming. With that, you can tax the people and attempt to do some weath redistribution.

The Arctic ice has recovered, and the coverage is as much as ever.
The sun's output seems to be on track to miss a peak in it's 11 year cycle.
I'm freezing my a$$ off in Ohio.
A group of Russian scientists are predicting and preparing for global cooling.

If we do get another small ice age, we'll WISH we had global warming. At least with warming, you can grow food.

Suck it up. This is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Many signs point to increasing rates of change in areas that affect
motorsports enthusiasts.

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Interesting remarks you make about the Arctic (& Antarctic) ice recovery.
Can you provide links to substantiate? The following report from the NYT
seems to contradict you

The New York Times
Scientists Report Severe Retreat of Arctic Ice
By ANDREW C. REVKIN September 21, 2007

FAIRBANKS, Alaska, Sept. 20 — The cap of floating sea ice on the Arctic
Ocean, which retreats under summer’s warmth, this year shrank more than
one million square miles — or six Californias — below the average
minimum area reached in recent decades, scientists reported Thursday.

While satellite tracking of polar sea ice has been done only since 1979,
several ice experts who have studied Russian and Alaskan records going
back many decades said the ice retreat this year was probably unmatched
in the 20th century, including during a warm period in the 1930s. “I do not
think that there was anything like we observe today” in the 1930s or
1940s, said Igor Polyakov, an ice expert at the University of Alaska,
Fairbanks.

The ice retreat has been particularly striking this year. The Alaskan side of
the Arctic Ocean has stretches of thousands of square miles of open
water; the fabled Northwest Passage through the islands of northern
Canada was free of ice for weeks; and the sea route between the Atlantic
and Pacific Oceans north of Russia was nearly clear a week ago, with one
small clot of ice around a group of Siberian islands.


Quote:
Remember the 2004 movie with Dennis Quaid, "The Day After Tomorrow"?

What the Russians are probably doing is readying contingency plans in
case the Great Ocean Conveyer Belt slows further or shuts down completely.

From:
National Oceanography Centre, Southampton,
The Atlantic heat conveyor

"The Atlantic is the only ocean where heat is transported north across the
equator. Here warm surface water from the tropics reaches further north
than in anywhere else. The relatively warm, salty water of the Gulf Stream
system remains at the ocean surface west of Svalbard to a latitude of
about 80 degrees before it dips underneath the much fresher and less
dense polar water. The heat released by this warm water makes the
climate in regions bordering the eastern North Atlantic warmer than at
similar latitudes elsewhere. The results of this warm flow can also be seen
in the extent of Arctic Sea ice, which differs markedly from that in the
Pacific region of the Arctic. The effect of this Atlantic heat conveyor is most
noticeable in winter.

... Should the surface water freshen for some reasons, it would have to cool
further before it can sink. Sufficient freshwater input might reduce salinity
to the extent that the surface water could not possibly sink, even at sub-
zero temperatures.

Paradoxically global warming could create precisely this effect. Increased
rainfall, melting of sea ice, glaciers and the Greenland ice sheet are all
possible consequences of higher temperatures, and could reduce North
Atlantic surface salinity sufficiently to slow down or even stop the formation
of deep water. If this happens, the THC may shut down. Once stopped,
the heat conveyor may take time to recover, and the consequences would
be a cooling of northwest Europe."

Here is one of several YouTube polar ice cap animations.

2007 Polar Ice Cap Retreat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onWoah881JQ

This one is said to be: "created from daily sea ice concentration data from
the National Snow and Ice Data Center, illustrating the shrinkage of the
polar ice cap to a record extent in September 2007."

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No offense my friend, but we are continuously bombarded with media misinformation to a point where I for one have little faith in the validity of such information.

I read that China and India produce more hydrocarbons than the US and Canada combined. They consume more oil based fuels as well. So why are we being held accountable for the greenhouse effects? And why should any of us feel guilty for the polar ice caps melting?

I say send the enviros over to those countries and let them protest their governments. Then we can watch 'em rot in those prisons over there!

:shaking:

Quote:

Ah, so the polar ice caps shrank in 6 weeks? Even the 20 year video shows it's only shrunk significantly in the last 5 years. Maybe most of Gore's fans are so easily convinced, but that won't fly here.

Ok, I'll play along:

Polar ice refreezing at a record rate after record melt:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environm ... t/arctic-sea-ice-47121205

Arctic sea ice back to previous levels:

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/ ... el-bears-safe-film-at-11/

You won't see that stuff on the evening news, where they still pray at the alter of St. Algore.

And a couple of off the cuff notes. It's not widely reported, but consider that every year the ice melts and freezes. It's known as "summer" and "winter", but environazis would rather ignore that.

Where ice has retreated in Greenland, they have found remnants of Viking farming settlements. I guess the Vikings caused some global warming?

It's all about revenue generation and income redistribution. The city of San Francisco employs 25 people at over $100k each who's duties revolve around global warming. Boulder, CO is taxing residents for carbon use:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15651688/

If you don't mind letting these scam artists control your life, while enriching themselves and giving your money to people who do nothing, go ahead, buy into this junk.

JrRifleCoach, protestors don't need to go to China or India.
Alberta is closer.

As of 2004, neither China nor India were said to rank within
the top fourty CO2 emitters on a per capita basis. On the other
hand, we in Canada ranked third by the same measure. As of
2006 my province (Alberta) was the principal CDN contributor,
generating 41% more tonnes of CO2 equivalent than #2 (Ontario.)

As tar sands production really begins to ramp up in coming years,
Alberta's greenhouse gas output is going to rise significantly.
The process requires large amounts of energy and water, electricity
in AB is largely produced by coal-fired generators.

The recently announced plan here in Alberta is to invest heavily
in carbon sequestration, collecting CO2 and pumping it back
underground. It is not really a proven technology over the long term.
Apparently as of 2007 there were three projects operating world-wide
on a scale that could be considered larger than pilot (ie: test)
operations.

As for news from the media. I feel their contribution is useful for
bringing topics to my attention but I watch for any sources that are cited
and then look there to verify the information presented by the media.

CentralCoaster. If the ice cap has shrunk significantly in the
last 5 yrs after being stable for long periods before, this seems
to support the claims that something unusual is happening.

Back to the earlier question to DaleD - do you have links supporting
the claim that the Arctic ice has recovered?

.

Quote:

You decided to ignore my post, and not follow the links, but ask me for supporting evidence?

Meh.

Sorry, DaleD. I didn't realize you had posted a response already as I
was writing earlier. I've had a chance to read the post and the links.

Is the first link saying that the ice has fully recovered to traditional levels
or is it saying that the amount of ice that froze in a period of ten days in
October is a record for a ten day period? It looks like the latter to me.

Here is the NASA report cited in the second link identifying winds resulting
from unusual atmospheric conditions as the primary factor in a 23%
reduction in year-round sea ice cover during the past two winters.

NASA Examines Arctic Sea Ice Changes Leading to Record Low In 2007
(NASA - 10.01.07)

NASA makes no mention of greenhouse gas emissions as a contributing
factor. (But note that they distinguish between seasonal and perennial
ice, seasonal ice melts in the summer, perennial ice doesn't.)

While looking at the NASA site, I came across a recent report about
the effect of rising air temperature on ice loss in Greenland.

Greenland's Rising Air Temperatures Drive Ice Loss at Surface and Beyond
(NASA - 02.20.08)

Also, I found a link to information about the Carbon Tax the city of
Boulder, CO instituted back in 2006. Clearly the reports about BC being
the 'first' jurisdiction in NA are inaccurate.

Nov. 8, 2006 - Boulder voters pass first energy tax in the nation

The point of the thread wasn't to fan anti-environmentalist sentiment.
Rather it was to draw notice to legislation that is likely to spread to
more jurisdictions. Whether we believe that Climate Change is real and
something that there is a hope of moderating or whether we believe it is
a fraud perpetrated on a willing &/or gulible constituency, the movement
has legs and it is leading to decisions that impact us now and in the
foreseeable future.

The subject has my attention and I am educating myself. Sifting reality
and figuring out the agendas is part of the process. While I doubt that
I can be in the driver's seat, I'd rather be on the bus than under it.
View points like DaleD's and CentralCoaster's add perspective to the
view points of other sources.

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Nice response. If I had any faith that those involved were doing it for the sake of the environment, and that the facts they purport are balanced and true, I would have no problem standing behind it. If only someone could present an argument, and disclose any doubts and contested facts, and also address the counter arguments, it'd have more credibility. But credibility bores listeners. They want to hear doom n gloom and scare tactics.

No matter what side of the issue you think you're on, the people in charge are making all their shots based on their financial and political gain.

So I'm forced to play by the same rules or be taken advantage of. I don't support anyone who wants a piece of my paycheck, and instead I make my own personal effort to conserve and enjoy the environment.

Here is the latest on global temperatures. I guess Al Gore will think his movie turned things around quickly.

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+ ... +Cooling/article10866.htm