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| Aboatguy | Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I tried this on the other site and basically its drawing a blank..
I hope the guru's have the information I seek I'm looking for proven aerodynamic improvements . Since this is for my daily driver I'm not looking for mods like mirror removal and racer-taping seams.. I just want to go faster.. Thanks Mike |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 15:10
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| bogus | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Well... this is a good question.
Aero mods are not really designed to make you go faster, they are designed to make you stick to the road better... which increases cornering speeds and stability. And F1 car so much downforce, that the drag is killer! The act of letting off the gas has the effect of 1g worth of braking. If you want faster, then you need to think about drag removal... Lowering the front end, deeper front air deflectoers, some kind of REAL rear diffuser, a real rear wing that will push the car down in the back. You will also have to get rid of the air in the front. A high rise hood will help with that. And if done wrong, you will slow down... Aero control is as much about moving air, but where you want to move the air too. Having listened to a lot of Doug Fehan's presentations over the years, they get aero advantage when they can improve cornering speed and such... There are some good books are aero considerations... I will check my library for titles. |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 16:10
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| BillH | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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For high speed Mike?
First I have to ask (no offense), How often do you plan to go over 130? Kudos for wanting to improve your car but the areo stuff doesn't work without doing the whole package. I.E.. putting an air dam or spoiler on the front will reduce the air going under the car but it will also increase drag, And putting just the spoiler on will have the affect on the rear of taking weight off (stability loss). Are you looking for faster MPH at a given RPM or are you looking for stability at higher speeds? If it's stability, work on the suspension, you'll get way more bang for the buck. The areo stuff that's out there isn't going to do much, doubtful that you'll even be able to notice the difference. An example would be my 92, soft,base suspension with KYB's. I run 125 on the straights, tap the brake and turn into S-bends at 110-115. The car floats a lot, a lot. Areo mods won't help that at all, suspension mods will. |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 19:48
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| Aboatguy | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
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Bogus, I figured out the benefits of dropping the car years ago. My car has been LOW for about 8 years, and the drops were performed after miles of high speed driving back when I was stationed in Colorado. Dropping the car and messing with the rake until the car was stable at speed. I also removed all of the rubber bushings early in my ownership (ordered an energy suspension polygraphite kit the first month of owner ship) AI heads within the first 4 months.... (3 sets of AI heads ago I should have went big first time around LOL) Quote:
Bill, I frequently find myself over 155 mph.... and rarely over 170. I'd like to change the later. My car is stable and rides nice at speed. However, drag is a major factor at 160+ and IMHO reducing drag may have bigger effect on top-speed than another 50-100 horsepower. I'm looking for drag reduction, while not making the car unstreetable. So what I'm looking for is drag reduction That wont increase lift and will allow the car to continue to be my daily driver. It may be that I'm maxed out on DD driven well mannered C4 performance and it may be time to move on. I sure hope that's not the case  Mike |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 20:27
Edited by Aboatguy on 2013/3/31 21:01:27 Edited by Aboatguy on 2013/3/31 21:03:37 Edited by Aboatguy on 2013/3/31 21:04:10 Edited by Aboatguy on 2013/3/31 21:21:08 |
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| BillH | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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You must have some HP then Mike.
Drag reduction starts with frontal area which you can't do anything about. You can reduce the air going under the car and clean up the back with a diffuser. Flow under the car that gets disrupted produces drag (that's why the c5&6 are flatter underneath). Having a place for air pressure under the hood and wheelwells helps - louvers, cowl hood (maybe). A rear wing (ugly as they are on streetcars) will help stability but it can also induce drag depending on the wing angle. And that is hard to determine, we have tried to get a good handle on wing angles on test days looking at RPM drop at the end of straightaways with various angles. It's fairly hard to test because the driver has to be very precise on each run. You'd probably be better off with a rear spoiler (which adds drag but the stability is probabbly worth it). You have to balance the areo with the stability. Most of the addons haven't been really tested. And the only real way to know is with a windtunnel. Additionally, running that fast, you should have some good, adjustable shocks on the car. Adjustables would let you detune them for daily driving. |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 21:23
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| BillH | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Well, you are maxed on top end already. You really need a dedicated car to play with. AND, at those speeds, you need a full cage, race seat and 6 point harness if you want to survive. |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 21:26
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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[ahem]assuming this is for sanctioned events[/ahem]
there are things you can do for lower drag, some of which also reduce what down force you already have I've actually worked on land speed Bonneville cars I've also word on a car that did 85mph on 5hp (electric) You need to take a look at the rules as to what you can do you're better of with a more aerodynamic coupe Here a Bonneville C4 ZR-1 that did 224mph http://m.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-di ... e-project-up-date-23.html |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 21:49
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| Aboatguy | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
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Brian, I'd like to decrease drag without reducing my current down force The only rule is it has to retain its street manners. The way its set up now my daughters used to drive it to high school every now and again. (they've been out of high school for years) I have no issue jumping in and driving a thousand or so miles. So Ron, Phil, Brian, and Ed have given me a reliable powerful combination. But I want more and If I'm asking too much of a C4 it may be time to move on. However, I believe undercar air management might be the answer. Even Z4 bimmers have belly pans and they are butt slow... Mike |
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Posted on: 2013/3/31 22:06
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
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Best bet is a GreenWood setup
They do actually work |
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Posted on: 2013/4/1 18:00
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
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Maybe it's just all my experience with dirt late models that clouds my thinking with aero..... but I actually like the vert with hard top for stability at high speed more than the coupe because I think the rear deck lid area of the vert helps straighten the air falling off the roof better than the coupe with the long window and short deck lid. On a dirt car its a great place to funnel air to the big rear soilers we run for downforce....
Just for some varied experience on aero, look at a drag car sometime.... a real top class stock bodied drag car (Pro Stock, 10.5 Outlaw or X275).... they all have long flat spoilers on the rear to keep air from falling off the roof..... These drag racing spoliers have minimal down force but they really negate any lift that would have been prouduced by the turbulant air falling off the rounded stock rear bumpers mixing with the air from under the car. The biggest gains on something like you car IMO are going to be managing air to reduce drag. Lowering the front air dam. I would get some plastic and make the factory one about 2-3" longer so it's closer to the ground. Next would be a diffuser for the rear that would clean up any trapped air under the car. A little sheet alum coupled to the spare tire cover with a rivet gun would be pretty easy to accomplish. Maybe vent the engine compartment some how without raising the center of the hood (AKA a cowl induction hood).... I think forcing the air to hit the windh=shield at a higher area on the windshield would just make it slower over the roof prouducing less down force..... So IMO a flat hood with vents would be better for stability than a taller cowl hood. I also agree safety is paramount.... I recently made a few test hits with my 84 drag car and 143mph in the 1/4 mile (just to see what it would do) is scary as hell to me because the car only has a 6 pt roll bar..... BTW the car, which has a dead stock body, was stable as could be at speed but I'm still glad the class I race in only has to race 1/8th mile (115mph).... No more 1/4 mile passes for me until I can get the cage upgraded and certified to 8.50. Will |
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Posted on: 2013/4/2 19:26
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| Aboatguy | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
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I removed my spare tire carrier years ago. Do you guys think I'm trapping more air under the rear of the car because of that?
What are the odds of picking up some top end by reinstalling the spare tire carrier? Will, I don't know if I could get out of the driveway with a lower spoiler. But that could be a good option. I just wish that someone had the data on drag reduction using XXX body kit or XXXX wing. Mike |
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Posted on: 2013/4/2 23:45
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| rklessdriver | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
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I absolutely think reinstalling the spare tire carrier woul be better.... just look at the underside of the rear bumper and quarter pannels.... nothing but a big box.
Will |
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Posted on: 2013/4/3 0:57
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| Aboatguy | Re: Aeromods for HIGH Speed | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
That big box is one of the reasons why I've been asking about aero improvements. |
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Posted on: 2013/4/3 18:10
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