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| denz93 | opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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Ok i have been trying to get this car to run right for a month now and here is what i have done so far.Problem started after i washed the engine. Car would not start at all. replaced opti and water pump. car ran but had 36 code. took opti back got another one. Put it on no codes but car runs like crap sounds like a diesel it spark knocks so bad. Changed knock sensors ,coil and wires still runs bad. I did not change the ignition module? My questions are is the opti I bought garbage its a richport technology opti from local parts store.Also is there some test a shop can do to diagnos this even with no codes.
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 13:24
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: opti question | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Almost everytime we hear about this problem it is a crossed plug wire or loose plug wire(s). It is also a good idea to check the coil to opti wire. With no codes it is not very likely to be a bad opti again, possible but not likely.
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 14:02
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| bogus | Re: opti question | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I would check all the wiring, too. Make sure they aren't crossed, as 95vette stated.
As for the opti... I have no clue. I do know, tho, that most cheap remans are just that - cheap remans. Someone is selling a Dynaspark for a good price over in C4 for sale. You may wish to reach out to him. I don't know the person, but I hope he is being straight forward. I have a Dynaspark on my 92 and it works very nicely. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 14:33
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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Ok i will double check the wires again I think i will get a second set of eyes on it just to be sure.
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 16:13
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| vis_croceus | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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My questions are is the opti I bought garbage its a richport technology opti from local parts store. The track record of cheap Chinese junk optis suggests that they are cheap Chinese junk... |
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 16:23
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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Good one I will probably end up putting an msd in it.
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 17:56
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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this maybe a stupid question but if i got the balancer pully off by one bolt hole when i put it back on would it have any effect.
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 20:13
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| bogus | Re: opti question | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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yes, but not in running, per se, but in vibrations.
It would "run" ok, meaning no misfires, but it could shake like the dickens. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 20:36
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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That's impossible to do, one of the three bolts is offset. It only goes on one way. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 20:40
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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Ok thanks i double checked and triple checked the wires they are all correct any other ideas
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Posted on: 2010/7/9 21:38
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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I'm just thinking on my feet really (bit like the 'dark garage/arching suggestion) and I'm no GM guru, but I wonder (others might verify):-
When you say it sounds like a diesel, do you mean it literally?. Does the engine run better worst at idle or higher revs or under load (being driven)? Was there any chance that water got into the air intake/filter or perhaps the crank position sensor connectors? I've never taken my opti off, so hopefully someone will chme in, but I read sometime ago in another forum that the opti driveshaft can be 'force' fitted 180deg out... I don't know if thats true!?!... anyone? Do you still have the old opti?. I wonder if it didn't actually get badly damaged by the washing and now that you've found/fixed the arching it may have just been water in the HT... lots of work I guess just to try the old opti so I don't know if it's worth it!?. Do you have a good quality induction timing light?. I know you can't time this engine, but (on other cars) I have sometimes found bad HT by connecting a timing light to each HT wire in turn and just watching the consistency/strength of the light shining on the crank pulley. As said, just idle thoughts from a non GM techie... the guru's will probably say I'm off the wall and definately will have better suggestions. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 6:59
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Good thoughts, Fluff.
But no crank sensor until 96. 92 & 93 use a spline drine on the opti that has one spline larger than the others, so, 180 out isn't possible, |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 13:03
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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the car runs good when cold the hotter it gets the worse it gets. When i say it sounds like a diesel i mean it spark knocks so bad that is what it sounds like. It does idle fine when its hot and it starts fine hot. I drove it out on the highway for about 20 min hoping for a code but nothing.I had to very slowly press the gas pedal to get going from a stop.So i don't know.
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 16:04
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: opti question | ||
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Elite Guru
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Are you sure the temp sensor on the front of the water pump is working? If your digital temp gauge is acting weird it is broken. Since that sensor feeds the info to the ECM/PCM if it is broken it will never go into closed loop and weird things will happen. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 16:14
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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I havn't noticed but its possible since i have had the water pump off twice now. I will pick one up and change it. but wouldn't there be a code if the loop wasn't closed.
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 16:32
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| vis_croceus | Re: opti question | ||
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Quote:
the car runs good when cold the hotter it gets the worse it gets. That typically means O2 sensors, but O2s failure doesn't fit the car wash story. Quote:
That typically means plug wires burnt or installed wrong. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 16:40
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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Thanks for putting me right Bill.  Not having had a any experience of these motors I just think along general mechanic lines. What's on the other end of the opti driveshaft, is that splined too or is it non-removable? |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 16:43
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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I would think if the wires were crossed it would not run good cold. I have checked this numerous times. i thought maybee if i drove it for an hour or so it would maybee give a code but i don't want to damage the motor with it spark knocking like that.
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 16:47
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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Denz, I'm sure this is frustrating.
As Vis say's and you realise, it sounds like bad spark/timing in some form or another. A long shot... have you tried spraying some water repellant (WD40 or whatever you guys use)?. Everything else being right, there has to be a connection with the washing, I wonder if there is still moisture in ANY connector. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 16:51
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: opti question | ||
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Elite Guru
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If your digitsl gsuge works leave it alone, it is providing input to the ECM/PCM like it should. The analog gauge works off a seperate sensor in the head so don't think it is part of the equation. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 18:05
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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I washed this thing over a month ago and its been sitting in the barn in 95 degree temps so i don't think any thing is wet.here is what is confusing to me. when i put the first new opti in i didn't have these symtoms i just had the 36 code and the fans were staying on and it ran just a little rough.So i am leaning towards a junk opti but with no codes it has me out on a limb would an ignition module do this if gets heat soaked?
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 20:06
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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I don't know anything about the brands of opti you guy's have available, but as has been said... you do read a lot about cheap opti's giving problems and being false economy etc.
Just a 'imo'... I wouldn't rule out moisture lingering, shorting, arcing even after a month @ 95, it can linger. Also if it has arched (anywhere) in the past it can leave a carbon track that will give problems. 'If' I've followed your other posts, you probably found moisture/arching when you tested in the dark, this seemed to be sometime after the car had been stored in a hot environment... so don't exclude moisture (imo). |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 20:30
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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true I have pulled all plugs blown them with air and left unplugged to dry the ecm plugs looked like they had some sort of dialectric grease3 or something clear in the ecm sockets at first i thought it was water but it was more clear gell looking
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 20:54
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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Yep, I've found the cream/clear grease in many connectors and it is there to help prevent moisture/corrosion.
Sorry denz, apart from the things above, I'm outta my 'novice' ideas. Hopefully the guy's will keep on plugging at it with you. Good luck. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 21:09
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
That's not stock. The ECM connector should be totally dry. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 21:23
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| vis_croceus | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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And yet people do it all the time... Not likely the problem here as misaligned opti usually leads to a no-start condition. (92-94 BTW) |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 21:34
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| vis_croceus | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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It's possible, although your description of symptoms doesn't scream ICM to me. Bogus will yell at me again, but you'll get this fixed a lot sooner if you head over to the LTx forum on camaroz28.com... |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 21:45
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Boy, you'ed have to beat it in with a hammer, wouldn't you? Bet they draw it up thght with the bolts.  |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 21:47
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| vis_croceus | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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Yep. When brain fails apply more muscle... |
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Posted on: 2010/7/10 21:51
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94 vert
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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come on guys i have been wrenching on cars for years and i have learned the hard way along time ago not to force things.but this ignition is a new demon for me so i am learning while i am suffering. I honestly think the opti i have is just shi!!!!!!
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 1:38
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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Bill your saying that the ecu connector port should be totally dry. Because all of the ports of mine have a clear silicone looking grease in the ecm part of the socket
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 1:56
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Jeff, we weren't talking about you. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 2:56
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Yea, totally dry. Someone put this stuff on. When you say socket, do you mean the metal sockets that each pin goes into? I really can't say if a dielectric or silicone would definately cause a problem. But it shouldn't be there. The contacts in that connector are gold for a reason, mainly to resist corrosion and because the amperage thru many of those contacts is very low, under one amp. But it's very hard to say if that goo is interfering with the signals. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 3:07
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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its all good i didn't read back far enough.
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 3:09
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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You haven't tried an ICM yet right?
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 3:12
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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no not yet
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 3:16
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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no the goo is actually in the ecu where the plugs go in it seems like some anti corrosion gell.
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 3:21
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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I have a used spare if you want to borrow it ( with heavy conditions on the return cause I've been burnt, lost tools etc.).
I won't say to put a new one on because I think anyone who says "change this" on a forum should be ready to back it up with their dollars if the part doesn't fix the problem. ICM's are about $130. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 3:23
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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Thanks for the offer but i am shying away from the icm because it did not act this way when i had the first opti on it that showed code 36. I seriously think that i just have a very weak signal from the opti.I think the ecu is sending the signal to retard timing like it shoud but the opti just can't compensate.I should have just got a better opti that is my thought. i think i will pull it and see if i can get my money back and put an msd in it. I am real good at changing it by now.Hell its the wifes car I bang my head any time I get in it.Ya know i am diesel mechanic by trade and this really makes me feEl like a DUMB A###.
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 3:47
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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My MSD has 12k on it now, IMO, it was worth the bucks.
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 4:00
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| vis_croceus | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
 Well, unless you did manage to jam it on...but we were talking about past cases in general. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 7:49
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| vis_croceus | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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I would not think dielectric would hurt anything, plus we're looking for something that started recently.
One of the things I would do is take the original opti apart to see if it actually failed. Also, auto parts stores can test the ICM, or so I read. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 7:54
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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If you don't mind changing opti's, I'd consider trying putting the original back on (if you haven't already). As mentioned before, it could have survived the washing and it was wet HT that stopped the engine which you've since cured with new wires etc.
I might be living on borrowed time, however... almost two years ago my water pump bearing collapsed and soaked the opti for hours. I was expecting the opti to be shot, but I'm about 5k miles further on and it is still good. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 7:55
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93 LT1 Coupe. |
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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Ooops sorry Vis... posting at the same time as you.
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Posted on: 2010/7/11 7:57
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93 LT1 Coupe. |
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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I took the old opti apart and it was full of some brown corrosion so it went into the garbage
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Posted on: 2010/7/12 18:12
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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My MSD.
http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules/ ... id=118974#forumpost118974 Just got it wet again today.  Attach file:  881_4b980e98e3f7f.jpg (0.00 KB) |
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Posted on: 2010/7/12 19:24
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| Fluff | Re: opti question | ||
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Senior Guru
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That sounds like it was the best place for it then denz! Any further forward yet?. Did you try the other forum that vis suggested? Let us know the outcome, the other guy's here have probably heard it all before, but I'm interested to learn as a newb. @Bill. I'm glad you posted that, I wondered what was in the opti... no much I guess. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/12 19:42
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93 LT1 Coupe. |
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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Yes i tried the camaro forum and they seem to think the opti is indexed wrong they said it is possible to get it out of time I am just debating weather to pull it and get a msd or try and see if its indexed wrong.
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Posted on: 2010/7/12 20:13
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| denz93 | Re: opti question | ||
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Guru Newb
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Bill that msd looks pretty well built is it apart because it was wet? Also I have the Taylor wires will they still fit.
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Posted on: 2010/7/12 20:35
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| BillH | Re: opti question | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Click the link. I had a w/p gasket leak so, while the pupm was off, i wanted to look at the MSD. At 10k miles and getting a little wet on engine washes, that's what the inside looked like. Operating Room clean, zero evidence of water. BTW, on the indexing, if the opti was easily pushed up against the block, it's indexed right. That spline shaft only goes in one way easily. |
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Posted on: 2010/7/12 20:45
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