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| DaleD | GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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The chuckle-heads at GM are at it again. They need more of our money:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090121/gm_henderson.html Meanwhile GM loses sales: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090121/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_global_sales_1 Bankruptcy would force renegotiating contracts, (the UAW is digging in). It would also lead to a change in management, without which, GM is doomed. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 18:59
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| NC Kid | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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I had a strife with a guy that I met a couple weeks ago. He has a V-tec. We were suppose to go to the dragstrip but he backed out at the last minute. I will save you guys the long story but he commented that V8s are shit. The automakers are going over to "eco" motors such as the Vtec. I have no knowledge of them so I am purely basing this off his comment. GM is making the cars with poor gas mileage which I will give the guy credit for saying. As for bailing them out again, it's a well given fact that the government will bail them out. They wont gain sales until they make more gas effiecient cars. Hondas and other imports are popular due to the fuel economy. Maybe because all the ricers are modding them out. Regardless, I say let them close down or fire the managment there and get a new team that will operate like the import companys do. Not my problem. i have a car but if the government is throwing tax money at them, then it's emptying our wallets. Do the politicians not see that they are fighting a loosing battle...I don't see the big deal of them closing down. Anyone have a answer to why the government is keeping them running?
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 19:08
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| DaleD | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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The answer is two fold, pain and politics. Pain - when GM goes bankrupt, many suppliers will be hurt. There will be transition problems which will lead to a huge spike in unemployment. This will all be temporary, but if you lose your job in the transition, that's small consolation. Our economy won't handle the transition well. But, the pain is necessary, to move forward. Politics - the UAW and Democrats are closely aligned. The UAW was a heavy contributor to Obama's election effort. The Democratically controlled government will want to keep GM as they are currently configured in order to benefit the UAW. By the way, gas mileage isn't everything. I sold a Bonneville and bought a Camry. Same gas mileage. The difference is, the Camry hasn't broken down on me. The Pontiac was capable of breaking in my driveway. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 19:27
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said on Monday that that a mid-February deadline for General Motors and Chrysler to complete their restructuring plans may be "almost unattainable" and that the automakers may have been set up to fail. WTF is this guy smoking!!??? GM should have had restructuring plans in place before a penny was received from congress, before even begging for a bailout, before running low on cash. Problems should be corrected as soon as your company starts losing money, not after you're f***d. Mr. Gettelfinger, if congress wanted GM to fail, they'd sit on their hands and do nothing. I bet they've put more energy into begging for money than towards restructuring. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:12
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| DaleD | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Or towards process/quality improvement. This is ignoring the disease and treating the symptom. They want more money for business as usual. I'm telling you, GM is so horribly fouled up that the only way to fix it is kill it. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:18
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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I have a better idea, take away all the economic incentives given to the foreign car companies to build plants down south.
Which is the REAL reason there was opposition to this. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:32
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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I'm telling you, GM is so horribly fouled up that the only way to fix it is kill it. I agree. It's like spending your time rebuilding a 1986 Chevy Cavalier that has a rotted frame, mice infested interior, 9 years of unpaid registration, and an engine fire. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:33
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Specifically what government-sanctioned incentives do the imports get that the domestic brands don't?
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:35
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| BrianCunningham | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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It's all in here, I'm to lazy to cut & paste http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/336677.aspx |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:45
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| DaleD | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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There are no government incentive to the foreign manufacturers identified in that article.
It did say foreign manufacturers pay less to US workers than the big 3, but that's because the foreign manufacturers are non union. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:52
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| Jeffvette | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Whoa, quit inducing fact into a discussion. This has long been a gripe for me. Local/City/State govn't have been give tax breaks on anything to give foreign companies incentives to build a plant to spur their local economy. It's horseshit. Japan puts excessive tariffs onto any car coming into JPN, we should be taxing the hell out of them the same way. We tried to limit the number of imports they sent over and they out smarted us by creating another division (lexs/Infiniti) to get around that. GM does have decent fuel mileage vehicles. The problem is they are fighting a stigma from the 70's when a whole generation saw the import come into the scene and mop up. Now that generation has kids and those people are growing up and getting imports because that's what mom & dad had. It's a tough battle. GM has some exciting cars one of them being the new Cobalt. Fuel mileage is not even a consideration anymore. It's all about styling, features and other crap. GM could build the equivalent of a JPN car in interior quality, but they are handcuffed. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 21:04
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| Jeffvette | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Take a gander at this, pay attention to the last line. And then look and see what the production date is. http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189 |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 21:19
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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And how do you win that battle, other than force-feeding them tax dollars for an entire generation until people change their minds? If it took GM almost that long to lose those customers, it'll take longer to get them back. Sounds like a better reason they're better off dead. Even if they produced cars that were superior in every facet including price, they'd still be losing money. It can be worthwhile for a country to artificially shield its assets from bad economy, but GM is not an asset. Would you pay money to insure a car with negative value? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 21:24
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| Jeffvette | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Bullets are cheap. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 21:51
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| BrianCunningham | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Thanks to my contracting, I've rented quite a few GM cars.
They've all got pretty good gas mileage Even my 14 year old muscle car gets 32 on the highway. Gary's 500hp Z06 get 31 The Cobalt turbo gets good mpg and 260hp Have you seen GM's new HCCI engine? http://wot.motortrend.com/6246002/tec ... l-like-economy/index.html  |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 21:54
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Found one in that linked thread: "In the case of The Big 3, they signed the contracts with the UAW so that is of their own doing. But look at it this way. The UAW had a government supported monopoly on the labor market. The Big 3 couldn't go to the free market to hire employees. They were forced, by the government, to contract with the UAW. The UAW had put the squeeze on the Big 3 for years until it has come to this. " |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 22:02
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| BrianCunningham | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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So, get rid of the UAW not GM
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 22:09
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Its too bad the rental agencies are the only ones that'll buy from GM. I've rented about a half dozen different GM models for work. I was only impressed with the G6. But I'm far from the average consumer so I don't expect my opinions to represent any sort of majority. I especially despised their trailblazer and HHR. Recently the place I rented from didn't have the compact I reserved and were forced to give me a midsize Hyundai Elantra(?) for the week. I was expecting the usual low quality shit. Impressive car. Sorry GM, you lose again. Have not rented a Cobalt yet. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 22:12
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Ha! That's like asking government to get rid of big tobacco. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 22:13
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| BrianCunningham | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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Well if you so mad at GM you should just get rid of all your GM vehicles ... cheaply
Sell them to me for a $1  |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:10
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| VetteUSA | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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I posted this at the beginning of Dec. over at DC: "I think you're 100% correct. Nothing will change once the Govt. gives them the money. And what'll happen is that the govt. will give maybe 70-75% of what they initially request. So Chrysler will receive an initial $5 to $5.5 billion of their requested $7 billion. The govt will say "You guys show us that you can make an effort to make this 5.5 billion work, and then come back to us in 2 or 3 months, show us you've done something, and we'll give you the rest of what you requested. The Big 3 will put up a superficial "plan," The Govt. will take a quick glance and say, "Sure looks good, looks like you guys are trying, so here's the rest of the money." The big 3 won't make any real effort to change their business practices, but they'll make it appear that they have so that it satsifies the govt and Americans in general. Then the big 3 will come back in another 6 months requesting even more money, but maybe request only 50-60% of what they had initially requested. The govt. will concede and give them the full request of their second stimulus packages. And what'll change? Nothing. In 2 years time , one of the big 3 will declare bankruptcy because the economic woes were just too difficult to overcome, they will get rid of the CEO, they will "reorganize," and startup again with a slightly different gameplan. The other two will be in such bad shape that they'll have to merge and sell off or get rid of more lines of cars. They'll pretty everything up again and maybe ask the Govt. for a 3rd stimulus. The Govt. will say, "Ok, that's good enough for us.. thanks guys." They'll get more of our money, they'll drive the business back into the ground, and we'll be back in the same place in another 10 or 15 years asking why it didn't all work. So, it seems to me that the easiest solution would be to let these companies go under; the upper management should be kicked out and they should get some people in their who actually have brains, who know how to run a business, and have them quit screwing around and actually make a real effort to change things. I obviously don't want to see such a mass number of ordinary Americans out of work because of the laziness of these companies, but i think letting these companies go under is the only solution that will make the necessary changes happen sooner rather than later." |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 0:20
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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But first I have to finish paying off the legacy costs of the union workers that built them. In which case the '69 pickup will be paid off in about 5 more years, and the '85 vette in maybe 2025. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:02
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| CentralCoaster | Re: GM - time to let them go bankrupt. | ||
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 Every word. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:06
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