Are you starting to feel that it may be a better choice to rebuild your existing engine?

This has been a rather productive weekend.

Yesterday, we found that there is one of the last remaining Earls Performance Shops just a few miles away! Earls is now owned by Holley and is known for the hosing and accessories they sell.

I was able to get the bits needed to lengthen the fuel lines (they are a little short for the L98, compared with the LT1, the LT1 lines won't reach the fuel rail.

I made up some steel braided high-pressure rubber line for the AT cooling lines.

They are in and attached to the transmission, I need to get the radiator installed, but that's a bit down the road.

I need to swap radiator supports so I can install the fans... but I am still playing with ideas on that one.

I also need to get down to the opti so I can be sure the vent lines are properly attached.

Before I wrapped up, I simple greened the engine... it was all dusty ashy (remember, we had some big fires out this way last month). It looked horrible.

An interesting side note: I asked my neighbour, who is a pro-level desert racer and mechanical engineer (he is also a Cop, he does that as a career for the consistant work, health ins and pension!), about gas aging. I have always been told that when gas goes bad, it smells like terpentine. When I started removing the fuel lines, some spilled on my hand, and it smelled like gas! So I had to wonder, what condition is the fuel really in.

You see, it's been in for 2 years... and moisture is the biggest killer. Cuisinartvette left the gas in his ZR1 for nearly a year with no problems, and my neighbour left some in his racing shifter carts for 5 years with no ill effects (beyond the obvious clogged jets).

Down here in LA, we don't have the moisture issues... so a fresh sock and a new fuel filter should about do it. So what if it's a little weak on octane, I can add a bottle of octane booster.

If nothing else, it will save me the angst of disposing, legally, all that gas. I refuse to pour gas down the storm drain. It's ethically beyond me.

I got quite a bit done! I will update the project thread!

HAHA!! Ofcourse i will mate, i didnt drink all them yesterday!! Did you get all that work done you were planning on doing today?

Great stuff mate, at least you found the right part to replace rather than check throw a few in and hope for the best

Youve done well mate, and good shots of the car too

Car looks great there Lenferg

Nice looking car!!

BTW, don't use the "Attachment" feature....

As you probably already have done, just use the little box above that shows a little mountain and sun...thats the "add image" icon.

Interesting tidbit there about the fuel pressure, thank you- makes a lot of sense!

OK, so I was able to borrow the MAF out of a 87. Couldnt just stick mine in his car...because....drum roll.....the 87 hasnt been started since 2002!

In the end though, it made my car run great, and I was able to check the burn off function by looking into it when the car was shut off as was suggested to me by someone. I stopped at the auto parts house on the way back from returning the borrowed one and ordered one with a lifetime warranty for $185 w/tax.

Interestingly enough, I did some more testing earlier today and the car never set a code- running at 2500 rpm with the MAF disconnected, and also idling with it conected (cuz thats all it would do with it connected). Neither test set a code, so I guess the moral of this story is that a MAF can die without setting a code.....in an 85 anyway.

you can use MS Paint to shrink an image....

Too big, and they get tough to download for dialup folks.

I am wondering if you will remember your yesterday....

Contemporary has lost my future business. When I brought up the entire dual mass job, they got downright ignorant with me.

For that matter, so did Dino at Corvette Salvage... And Dino knows me...

Taber wasn't much better, but the guy did admit to not knowing the details of the dual mass function... I get the feeling he knows C3s and earlier... the newer Vettes lummox him. Fair enough.

But it still means that three vendors have a very strange policy.

Thanks for the help, Case....

Lets see if I can get it smaller.

Wife took this when I finished the brake/wheel project in January this year

OK, I think I've got it...

Hey! That worked! Here goes again...

Or this...

Lets try this...

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc ... ompleteunretouched008.jpg

OK, I got the pics on photobucket but can't get them here? How do I do that?

Use photobucket mate, www.photobucket.com and make a free account, upload your pics there and then paste the links here.

OK, my computer savvy (or lack thereof) is showing here. I am trying to post a pic as an attachement. When I click preview, I get the message:
"Could not login to FTP Server. The Username 'c4guru20' or the Password is wrong. Please check your FTP-Settings". What am I doing wrong?

If the car is running fine, dont touch the distributor. Just leave it as it is. Do the leads for sure, but no point throwing away a good distributor. They are certainly no where near as bad as they are made out to be, and since you use the vehicle daily, the life span of it should be quite good. If and when you do replace it, use an MSD distributor rather than a GM replacement, the MSD is substantially better, and if youre going to that sort of trouble, you may as well do it right first go.

I think Taylor have some red LT1 leads, im not sure though.

Ive replaced LT1 leads a few times, and while its abit more time consuming than normal, its not a hard job by my standard. The right is infact quite easy, it the left that takes the time, and once you figure out where to put your hand to reach the left side distributor outlets, youll have it done in no time.

You dont need to pull any parts off to do the left, but if youre going to go to that length, take off the belt, then remove the belt tensioner assembly, that makes it abit easier to get into the left connections.

Use the Factory genuine service manual so you get the leads going to the correct plugs.

One bit of advice i will give you is flush and properly maintain your cooling system, and this includes using the pellets or a simular equivilant product, that along with good clean coolant will act as a seal lubricant which will help to keep your cooling system components in good shape for a long time to come. This in turn will hopefully reduce the chance of the water pump from weeping on your distributor, which will accelerate its failure for obvious reasons. It will also keep the heater core in better shape, and itll last longer. Some people seem to think its a bitch of a job to replace them.

1996CE LT1. Want to replace my plugs and wires as a preventive maintenance project. I want to go to red wires (for looks) and want a good durable wire. Research so far indicates this is no small task so I only want to do it once! Any advice on wire/plug brand would be appreciated. Also, the car is a daily driver with 115+K miles on it. Should I change the optispark cap & rotor at the same time? Again, research shows this is no easy project either. None of these items have ever been replaced. Thoughts? Thanks.

Cheers people, just having a few tallies for you all since its sunday night here.

Take your pick from the esky below:

XXXX Bitter


Tooheys New


Coopers Sparking Ale


Coopers Best Extra Stout


Melbourne Bitter


Or hook into some of this fine stock in the spirit section


And then:



Enjoy your day people

Quote:

It sure seems to be a struggle to find LT1 support. Contemporary is certainly going to lose business with that type of response. Golen or LPE seem to be the only source around.

No worries mate, hope our replies help you out ;)

Yep, do that mate, whack your MAF in his 88 and as long as his car is running fine, it will tell if your MAF is good or bad.

The intermitent factor is what leads me to believe its the relay/module, its hard for me to swallow the fact a MAF sensor could work fine and then be stuffed 10 minutes later simply cause you stopped the engine, and yet it works fine abit later on.

The fact it wont work at all now with the MAF doesnt really indicate the MAF is no good, it could still be the relay/module has failed completely, in which case the intermitent factor will no longer be part of it.

The fuel pressures you indicate there are fine, the drop off you see when getting off the throttle is the pressure regulator lowering the pressure, its controlled by vacuum, and when you get off the throttle, the amount of vacuum increases. The more vacuum in the manifold, the less resistance there is for the fuel to flow from the injectors, cause the vacuum will help to draw the fuel through, hence requires less pressure to flow a simular amount.

Wow, thanks for the replies all, I had checked out of the site for a while and was surprised to see them.

As far as the fuel pump, I ran w/ a fuel pressuer gauge taped to the windshield for quite a bit. 40 lbs usually- sometimes dropping to 35 as I come (hard) off throttle.

Im kinna of the opinion that 1. I had all sorts of little maintenance problems like the sock that may have been part of the problem or not, but now 2. We are down to the fact that the car dont run with the MAF connected, and it does run with it disconnected. I know where an 88 is that they guy might lend me his MAF, but I might be better off puttng MINE in his car...in case as was discussed above, the Bosch control box ate it. Id ato have to replace his too.

The problem has just been soooo intermittent. If it would just stay broke, it would be a lot easier to throw parts at it, as much as thats not my preferred method.

Id sure like to know more about the theory of operation behind the control box to check it out, cuz yes I saw a price on one somewhere and it was like $500. For the moment I guess I am on hold...till I buy, borrow or steal a AMF....

What I don't get is how everyone who replied said how they liked it?????

I think it look horrible.

I was saying "hurt" in the sense of damaging a good part. I donno if it could do it, but it makes me wonder. I guess it would require it to shoot more voltage in than it could handle...

but in the other sense, it would make diags that much harder, cause the problem would remain. Where to turn next? Fuel pump or MAF module?

Yep, the 85 system is different to the later models. Its got that relay/module in the dash instead of the other 2 cheap relays.

And i was saying earlier if that relay/module in the dash is rooted, that could explain the running fine and then difficult restarts, i certainly wouldnt say its out of the question. Those Bosch relay/module parts should be very reliable, but we are reffering to a part that has potentially given as much as 23 years of service, and unless there is proof its been replaced, we much assume that is hasnt and its the piece that left the factory with that car.

P.S. mate i just re-read that line, i am not sure if you mean hurt the MAF as in hamper its function, or as in damage it, if its the later, i dont believe it could, but then i dont really know for sure.

This looks like it's been a total success!!!

I hope it's the first of many such successes!

Three cheers to Steve for doing a great job here!

absolutely.

My only worry is if the MAF controller is bad, could it hurt the MAF??

Yeah, best way i know of to test a MAF sensor is in another car that uses the same sensor, and that car being known to run perfectly well with its own MAF

Agreed. I would test the MAF and see if it happens regardless.

Steve,

USPS did a great job. The outside of the box is in excellent condition.


Klaus

Well i had considered that myself as well, however if indeed it was a pump failure issue, id be rather positive it would do it with or without the MAF connected.

Gee... I like the MAF controller problem, too, but with the heat related failures, I wonder if the pump isn't failing. Considering it sucked up the in-tank filter, I can't believe it's 100% right.

Yuppers. That's my take on the subject.

To be honest, I don't have any faith in these salvage vendors if they are selling the motor without the matching/mating flywheel. Seems rather stupid to me.

No, i wouldnt go to say MAF is shot at all yet, its very likely, but its certainly not a certainty yet.

The issue as you stated of being able to usually run fine all day then stop it and it wont restart, that is probably the MAF Burn off causing that for what ever reason, that silver looking piece you found in the dash with Bosch written on it is the relay. My 87 did that same thing ages and ages ago, and replacing the burn off relay fixed the issue, it would start though when this all occured, it was just extremely hard to start, where as normally it would start very quick and easy.

If you can get hold of another MAF to check in your car, or even check your MAF in another car, this will tell you if its ok or not.

I think youll find that Bosch relay in the dash is a very expensive item too.

Cool! Just curious. What condition was packaging?
Did USPS bang up the box?
Or did they take the liberty to "UPS" the package.....

The flywheel should be match balanced to the engine. All 1986 and up Gen I and Gen II engines are externally balanced in the rear. It makes no difference to the trans. I can't imagine why the flywheel is included in a trans sale. If you are going to build up an engine, you can supply any flywheel you might care to use, dual mass or one piece when it comes time to balance the rotating assembly. For the sake of future interchange, make sure the clutch in independently, neutrally balanced.

RACE ON!!!

It is just the basics, to start with. Air, fuel, spark, compression. What is missing? If the fuel volume isn't sufficient, the pressure will drop. So if the pressure is steady you can forget that idea. You didn't mention that it did drop off, but that doesn't mean that the pressure at the Schrader valve is making it to the injectors. or through the injectors. From your description of symptoms, I'd have to guess the problem is with the ignition system. The 10° base timing has nothing to do with the problem. How long has it been since you worked on it before the problems? What work did you do at that time?

RACE ON!!!

much as im sure you dont want to hear this, it sure does sound like the MAF is shot.
you should be able to find one on ebay for a reasonable price, i bought one as a spare for 75.00 a few years ago.

cool, mine showed up today. Thanks steve

I received my wheel bearings today.

Thanks Steve!

Settle in- get yourself a fresh beer and some popcorn.

For the record: this is my 1985 and the ZZ4 was installed a couple years ago by the PO and Ive really had no trouble with the car till now. Its NA, dont get confused if you read my profile, its my 76 that has the blower, not this car. Ok, here we go....

6 weeks ago: Car driven about 1 hour. Shut off for 10 minutes, would not restart. Sounded like it was hitting during the crank cycle, but not when key let back into run position. After much cranking and wtfing, went and got a gallon of gas. After some cranking and bleeding at the shrader valve on the fuel rail, car started right up and ran like a champ. Although ¼ tank indicated, car takes about 14 gal at the gas station, so I figure, inaccurate fuel gauge, Ill be more careful next time.

3 weeks ago. Car driven 15 mnutes. Sits about 20 minutes. Will not start with same syptoms from above. Have car towed home. (Car has ¾ tank). The next morning before I touch anything, I try to start the car. Starts right up, no problem. I remove the ignition module and have it tested (good) but replace it and the condenser anyways, figuring, they are relatively cheap things to rule out.

2 weeks ago. Car flames out while driving, but immediately restarts. 2 days later, it does it again, but does not restart. 3/8 tank indicated ( this really seems to drop the more you crank on it, perhaps the battery voltage drops? The indicated level dropped during the 6 week ago scenario too). Anyhow, believe it or not, I get a gallon of gas and pour it in and the car starts right up, and I drive it home, hiting in excess of 4300 RPM to check if its running OK.

Now, Im like—there has to be something funny going on in the tank, because one gallon of gas is NOT fixing the car. I think back and the last time I added the gallon, the gas cap made a big woosh when I unscrewed it..so I start to wonder. I removed the charcoal canister (because everything wasn’t hooked up anyways, and the headlight was hitting on it, I mean it was fubared before I got to it) and plugged all the lines like 4 months ago…and no problems till recently,,,but still…who knows for sure. So, I drill me 2 little holes in the gas cap- insta tank vent, in case I am pulling the tank into a vacuum and removing the gas cap is whats actually fixing the problem.

Off I go to for a test run…get less than a mile and a half, car flames out….I manage to get it restarted in gear and limp it home, car will not go over 600 rpm. After I get the car in the garage, I note that it will rev up with the diagnostic connector jumped, but not when its not. For a while anyways, Then it wont rev past about 6-700 at all. I get a code 34 during all of this, but who knows if it is because off all the dying, restarting, and whatnot- I don’t read too much into it.

Im pissed now. Out comes the fuel sender and electric pup. Sure enough the screen on the pump, the sock is collapsed and you can see where its been sucking down and blocking flow (probably anyways). Replace sock, and replace fuel filter down at the frame rail for good measure. Start car. It will not go past idle (6-700) without dying. Install fuel pressure gauge. 40 PSI.

Now Im like really, WTF. So I pull the plugs. They are all carbon fouled bad. Replace plugs. No Joy. Replace cap and rotor, and find cap button that rides on rotor is way worn out ( only like a year old wtf some more) and in fact shows signs of arcing because it really cant reach rotor. Ok, so new cap and rotor. Test drive hard accel up and down local road 6 times, and around neighborhood. No problems. Finally problem solved. Right? Of course not, this piece of cr&p. I took it out today about 5 miles away, ran great, turned it off, it sat for about 1 hour, and when restarted went into its "not going past idle" mode. After getting it rolling in gear at idle ( by starting it in gear) I decide I can not limp it home like this, this time, its too far. Last time I did it, I was only like a mile and a half away..this time Im like 6 miles away. So, I get out my handy dandy paperclip and put it in service mode. Car runs like a raped ape all the way home. In the garage, runs good in service mode, but wont go past idle w/out paperclip. Run codes, Code 34. Fine. I remove the MAF sensor. Car runs amazingly well without it. Wtf. Computer must stick in a value. But Im tempted to just leave it out. Put MAF back in-car wont go past idle, Pull MAF out, Car runs great. Find the following on Corvette fever website:::

The '85 Corvettes do not use relays for the MAF, but instead use a module next to the ECM. This module rarely goes bad; but to check the module on '85 Corvettes, look for 12 volts at connection E on the MAF with the engine running. Then, run the engine for at least 5 minutes, turn off the key, and check for 12 volts at connection D (MAF burn-off).

Good voltage on E. Very questionable voltage on D for burn off, but I don’t think burn off is really my issue at this point, do you? Interestingly enough., there is a weird chatter under the dash during the burn off cycle that I noticed the other day but have never heard before. I pull the dash apart ( can you believe I’m still with this and haven’t pushed the car over a cliff?) to find the control box. It must be the big thing that says Bosch on it and clicks when its burn off time, but that’s not where the chatter is coming from, that’s coming more from the center of the dash. But screw it…I mean who knows if the burn off will even work right, the MAF is still unplugged. I think Im getting sidetracked.

Anyhow, as I write,. Im clearing the codes again. Have I proved bad MAF? Jesus they are expensive, Id like to be more sure before I spend 200 bucks. Be a good time to have a laptop and the program to look at this car and see what the MAF is actually doing wouldn’t it? But I don’t. Suggestions? Anyone local to me that has a way to scan what the MAF is doing? Or do I just go by a MAF and hope that’s it?

OK just went out and checked one more time. Connected MAF, cleared codes, started car, Will not rev past idle out of service mode or even when in service mode now. Unplug MAF….car revs up fine (actually little backfiring now,when I really rev it, but nothing too radical)


So…help? Should I just kill myself?

wow....

weak spark makes me wonder if all the aftermarket ignition components are up to snuff.

I would also check the fuel filter... pressure is one thing, but if the volume is weak...

add these together: The fuel pressure starts ok, but the volume is low, it takes a while to get started, spark weakens as battery weakens.

just a guess.

also, reset the timing to 6* BTDC... it could be a touch advanced.

Then comes my final concern... the accel injectors. they don't have a great rep, to be honest.

what year?

omg. what an abortion.

I have seen a couple of C3s with the ZR1 rear bumper, and it just doesn't look right... the proportions are off and the angles are weird...

If he wanted a C4 that bad...

Quote:

I sent Frank a PM a couple of days ago, and haven't heard back from him.

I talked to Contemporary, and they were not very responsive when I brought up the dual mass issue... infact, it verged on beligerance. I wasn't impressed.