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| TommyT-Bone | Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
 
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Posted on: 2012/8/23 17:38
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| Ultraman | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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The strength and backbone of our economy has always been a healthy middle class.....now they are trying to kill it. Corvette sales are a good indicator.....its a vehicle aimed at the middle class and when the middle class is flourishing Chevy sells 35K units a year....when it's not they sell 12K and I expect that to stay about the same even with a home run C7.....Even to have a chance at recovery in the next four years the current administration has to go.....get out and vote and vote often.....
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Posted on: 2012/8/23 18:24
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2010 Grand Sport Coupe Gone but not forgotten... Vote DeSantis in 2024.... Make the IRS go away... |
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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And yet, personnal offices in factorys here can't find any qualified applicants or....any applicants for factory jobs that start at $40k + or machinests that can make $100k if they hang around for 5 years.
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Posted on: 2012/8/23 19:37
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| Ultraman | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Mmmmm....that might be too sweaty and dirty of work for 100K.....these kids want to work computers for 100K, not a lathe.....and they are taking a lot of those classes out of the high schools so no farm system....
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Posted on: 2012/8/23 20:45
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2010 Grand Sport Coupe Gone but not forgotten... Vote DeSantis in 2024.... Make the IRS go away... |
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 0:26
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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If the middle class votes Obama into another term..........they deserve what they get.
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 0:36
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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And Pew is a nonpartisan research group, uh huh.
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 0:38
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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I'm sure most of us don't need the numbers to figure this out. Congress is lame to say the least. Forecasts of a shrinking middle class have abounded for quite awhile. There are fewer "haves" and multitudes more of "have nots". It's not all governmental either. The exporting of jobs contributed to the demise. The reason jobs left is simply a matter of the numbers. Labor is cheaper in other nations. It's not that Americans can't adjust to the new economy. They have and it shows in their spending habits. Many became spoiled in the boom years. They thought it would last forever. The crash of the over inflated stock and housing markets took the wind out of the sails of the middle class investor. They watched as their wealth slid. Most are still in the recovery stage. We still have a long way to go. This nation has been through tough times. We can emerge to a healthy economy again given good leadership in all sectors of American society. It's not going to be quick. We dug a big hole. We can't just move to a new hole. We're stuck in this one and there are lots of strings attached. Not many places to look for help either. Everybody's looking for a financial teet to suck on. He who has the best credit wins. |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 0:44
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Agreed.  |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 0:53
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| Matatk | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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I'd love to meet a guy running a lathe making 100,000 k a year....bs. I know a guy who owns a small cnc shop...he told me a top worker with school and several years experience might top out around $24 an hour...a far cry from 100 k a year. A skilled labor journeyman toolmaker/machine builder (like my father who did it for thirty years) might make that working 60 hour weeks every single week for a year.
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 2:33
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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It's been documented, and yea, starting out with a couple years is $50k. Plus if you don't want to work overtime, that's your desision. Plus a small shop is never going to pay bigger wages. I didn't start making good money until I was working 60 hours a week. And I had 5 weeks vacation, I took 5 days vacation. |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 3:00
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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BTW, I know a guy who runs a lathe who makes $100, a one man operation, he's responsible foor everything he brings in, he doesn't just show up somewhere to do his 40 hours. |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 3:02
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| Matatk | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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Webmaster
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Well I know a guy who runs a fortune 500 company and makes 10 million a year. Not a fair comparison. No average worker running a lathe makes 100k. So one guy who has his own shop does....totally different. The average guy running a lathe makes probably $18 an hour. The guy who owns the construction company might make 100k, the guy actually hammering the nails makes 35k. There aren't a ton of 100k a year jobs floating around out there, that's the reality. On top of that, a lot of machine industry work is being exported so it's drying up. That coupled with the fact that younger people don't want to do that kind of work makes it harder. I would have gotten in to the auto industry and machining but my dad wouldn't let me while I was in college. He didn't want me to suffer the inevitable job loss he saw coming due to overseas production. |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 11:23
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| flyboy | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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America's middle class has had a much higher standard of living than the rest of the world for a long time.
Now that the term "global economy" is reality, coupled with rising energy prices, America's middle class will continue to decline until some sort of parity is reached with other nations. Not a big fan of the Wall St. protesters, but they do have a point. |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 12:16
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yes, but it's your choice, especially when you're younger "Do I want to educate myself and run or own a company....or do I want to hammer nails? " When I finished high school, I wanted to be a machanic. Im my first year of college I figured out that while being a machanic was an acceptable profession, it wouldn't generate the income I was looking for. So, I changed my goal. |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 13:25
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| BillH | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Circulating email - the first quote is true. The rest is interesting.
Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC,offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling ... "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that any time there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP,all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election." The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months and 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971 - before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc. Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took one (1) year or less to become the law of the land all because of public pressure. Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise. In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around. Congressional Reform Act of 2012 1. No Tenure/No Pension A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they're out of office. 2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.It may not be used for any other purpose. 3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do. 4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%. 5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people. 6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people. 7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women. Congress made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work. |
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 13:26
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Middle Class? .... ( PR&C ) | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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Joe makes a valid point about our economy. We were allowed to live in an artificially high standard of living because many other economies were riding on our coat tails. If we crashed we would take others along with us. The equalization was addressed with devaluation of the dollar (making US goods and oil cheaper on the international markets). American produtivity had been on the rise. The world as a whole is equally in a downturn. The financial sectors are turbulent to say the least. Cheap energy would go far to spur on a revival. When our economy started to grow, energy price surges put the brakes on the growth. I think affordable energy is a key ingredient in revitalization. It has pricing impact on crops, goods and services across the board. People have to have discretionary income in order to buy goods and services. There is no discretion about it. Most everybodies incomes are committed to maintaining households on a month to month and in some cases a week to week basis. Easy access to credit and prompting Americans to buy more than they could afford kept things moving for awhile. The foolishness of that concept was bound to bring a bottom. Live a lifestyle you can reasonably afford is the best answer to long term financial stability. (Hey government officials! Get a clue!)
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Posted on: 2012/8/24 13:51
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