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| Durango_Boy | Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Cliff notes:
I bought an old Grizzly 18" band saw, a G1012. I got it dirt cheap but it's missing the blade guide and the 220V motor is completely locked up. I have pulled the motor, breaker box, and switch box off of the saw. The old locked up motor is a 220V, 2 HP, 3450 RPM. I want a 110V, 2 HP, 3450 RPM. I have found several good deals on motors but they all seem to have voltage ranges that start at 208 and I'm told they can be wired for 110V if they're multi phase but what I don't understand is does that me re-winding them with new copper or just an external wiring scheme? Question: Can I buy a motor this motor and easily rewire it for 110V or will the windings need to be redone in order to achieve this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/251154893256? ... _trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 13:21
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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First, Grizzly makes good shit.
Now, rewire a motot if it's mutli phase? Yea, I don't know what that means either. But, there are 110/220 motors, they convert from one to the other easily. But, multi phase?? is another thing. There's single phase and 3 phase 220. If you buy a ebay 3 phase motor, you'll need a phase converter (like $600) JUST to convert from 3 to single phase, I have one on my gear lathe. Houses are single phase, industrial buildings can be 3 phase. The motor on the link doesn't say what phase it is AND it's a blower motor not designed for tooling (not much torque on startup). I wouldn't buy a motor off ebay unless it was brand new, it may be smoked, worn out, etc. 2 horse is a lot to just run a band saw too. What you need to check: The frame number - this needs to be matched because of the mounting, hole locations in the mounting plate,etc. And you need to measure the shaft dia. on the old one so the pulley fits. Personally, I'd look at a 110v, horse or horse and a half at Northern Tool or even Harbor Ft. Also, if you have 110 in the shop, you have 220 too. It's easy to run a 220 line from the breaker box. I did it in my shop and I'm NOT an electrician. BTW: http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g1012_m.pdf |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 13:46
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Bill, on the same track on a lot of that. The first thing I did was look into running 220 into my garage because I was under the impression the saw ran when I bought it. Problem is the breaker box is a long way from the garage and the length of cable and box and plug I would need just to run a 220 to my garage is a LOT more than A: I can afford and B: I paid for the saw. SO, lets assume I want 110 just simplicity and budget. The label on the motor in the Ebay link says it's a 3 phase so that means it's not an option. Unfortunate considering the cost of motors. Even new motors are more than what I paid for the saw. I'm less worried about the mounting bracket size. The plate under the saw is very versatile in it's design, and I could fab up a new plate quick and easy if I needed to. Shaft size is also not as important if I find a good deal because I have access to a lathe and can either bore the pulley out to fit the shaft or fab up a sleeve to bush the difference. My end goal is to get a motor under this saw as cheap as I possibly can. I'll buy used if I can simply because the costs are so much lower and it's just a band saw. If it starts and rips what I need ripped then I'm not going to worry if it's not as strong or precise from years of use. SO I need to make sure I find a single phase motor, based on your incite. I like the option of a weaker motor, since the 1 HP motors are cheaper, though I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by installing a motor that won't cope with the materials I may end up cutting with this saw. Heck I'm hoping even maybe one of you guys may have a spare motor that might fit my needs and we can work something out. Thanks everyone for your time and opinions on this. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 13:58
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
All 110v's are single phase. I didn't realize that motors are so pricey now. But go on NorthernTool.com and look at the motors just to educate yourself on the different types blower,woodworking,etc. I'd check local too, motor repair shops might have a cheapo. I have one of these, it's a metal cutoff band saw. It also stands up to use like a regular band saw. It has a 1/3rd HP motor, it will stop if the blade gets pinched but usually works fine. Attach file:  band.jpg (0.00 KB) |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 14:16
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 14:19
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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I called two local places to see if either they had a used motor or if my locked one could be repaired. I was quite discouraged to find that repairing my locked motor was near twice what new motors cost. Maybe cost of copper and labor costs are just too high these days to justify that as an option.
I have friends looking all over so I'm bound to find something that will work...just keeping feelers out there and hoping to find just the right deal. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 14:21
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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I'm not recommending that motor on the ebay link but...
Over the years, I've found that a bandsaw (metal) has been one of the most "necessary" tools in tools in the shop especially for fab, headers, etc. I've found really good deals on C/L on metal bandsaws ($100 to $150)but, I'm just outa room. I had to move my tablesaw, radial arm, bandsaw and generator into the downstairs livingroom just to get back to work on the '67. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 14:35
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 14:37
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Yeah you're right on the money. I have had the usable space but the costs for band saws always seems to be high and that's just for the little 14" and 16" sizes and that limits me a lot. Just never justified it. Finally I found this guy selling this Grizzly 18" and I about died that it was still available and at that cost. I had to drive north about 1.5 hours to get it but I'm happy with it as a purchase even if it had a locked motor. Now I just have to be careful about finding the right parts and not spend to much. Found a set of guides, new, with bearings, for cheap. I texted the guy in the link you sent me and maybe that motor will work for me...we'll see. Thanks. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 14:50
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Thinkin' on this, I would think that you could convert the line into the garage to 220. It's just a wire swap on the box (if the cable from the box to the garage is sized right, probably is.) Then put a box in the garage for 220 and 110. You could probably do it for around $50-60. And forget the 220 plugs for now (yea, they're expensive), just hardwire the bandsaw. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 14:59
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| bogus | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I was going to suggest the local electrical repair shop, too.
A few years back, I had the fan motor in my window AC die. So I removed said motor and for 20.00, the guy rebuilt said motor. Reshimmed it, too, so it didn't wobble back and forth. If your motor is locked, it more than likely overheated to the point that the epoxy melted, and when that happened, the motor lost power and stopped, and by the time it cooled, the glue had re-stuck. A new rotor is really the best solution after getting the assembly apart. Assuming it is a brushed motor. If not, new can based windings would be needed. How many wires go to the motor? If it's only 2, then it's a conventional brushed motor, if it has a bunch, then it's brushless, and more then likely the Hall Effect Switch has also failed. Keep digging... also check places like McMaster-Karr for parts. Check for local tool repair shops, too. If all else fails, do a web lookup a company in Dover DE called Brooks Machine Repair. This might be small for them, but talk to Paul, he is an old and dear friend (we go back to 7th grade!). If anyone can give you insight on how to get that motor going again, it's him. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 15:13
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
The line to the garage was never meant to run much. It had a 10 amp breaker, and if I run a grinder with the lights on and a few small fans to move air...it blows. LOL. Some day I plan to run a line from the box to the garage, with new wall box, and plenty of 110 and 220 circuits so I have all the power I need. They just never intended the garage to use more than a door opener and a few incandescent bulbs when they built it. My Grandfather wasn't a handy guy. LOL. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 15:14
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
100 ft of outdoor Romex is about $75, a 4 curcuit box and breakers maybe another $75, just FYI. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 15:33
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| teebee | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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A 2 hp motor on an 18" bandsaw isn't too much. I have a three hp motor on the 20" bandsaw here at school. But a 2hp 110v motor is going to pull more amps than it sounds like your existing wiring can handle. You really need to get more service out to your garage. If you didn't pay any more than that for the saw you're in good shape and can afford to buy a good motor.
I'd look at Bill's suggestion of an additional circuit box and wire to increase the service. Then I would buy the motor. You could get by with a "true" 1 to 1 1/2hp motor. A 2hp motor @ 110v is going to pull somewhere between 18 and 25 amps (depending on the efficiency of the motor) That means that the machine will have to be on circuit (25 amp breaker) all by itself to run it and if you put it under a pretty good load it still could pop the breaker. For a 2hp motor, I'd try to run it at 220v (pulls between 9 and 12 amps, 15 amp breaker would be sufficient). When I built my shop I overdid all the wiring. Each of my major machines are on a circuit by itself (most 220v). Any machine that could be converted to 220v, I did. I ran 10ga wire to each of the machines even though I could have been safe with 12ga. 10ga is good for 30 amps IIRC and none of my machines pull that kind of power, but I am prepared in case I upgrade. (12ga wire is good for 20amps)     |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 17:02
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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There you go, Tom knows way more about the amps required than I do.
I just wire things up and hope they don't explode.  I did run 220 into the garage myself, I'm running a 3 horse compressor on a 15 amp circuit. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 17:13
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| bogus | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Ohm's Law rocks.
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 18:12
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_________________
The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yea E=MC squared. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 18:49
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Good news.
I grabbed the old locked up motor and was looking it over and I saw something that I hadn't noticed before...a light appearance of corrosion around the base of the shaft where it disappears into the front case cover. I loosened the four nuts holding the cover on, tapped it with a hammer, and sure enough...the shaft started spinning freely. Seems the corrosion had built up and locked the two together and all I needed to do was jostle it to separate them. I'll wire it to 110, put everything back together, and viola...no need to buy an expensive motor. Yay. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 22:44
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Quote:
Be sure to run a 4 conducter cable for 220V as most wiring codes now require the seperate ground. Also a main breaker on the remote box. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 23:25
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Quote:
How are you going to rewire it??? |
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Posted on: 2012/9/25 23:26
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2004 Vert. 475hp. Built by Vengeance Racing |
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| BillH | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yes, good point, Andy. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/26 0:19
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Quote:
I cannot explain it in detail, but the motor has a very handy and detailed diagram / instruction label showing how to wire the motor for low voltage instead of high voltage. It's voltage range listed on the motor itself is 115 / 208 - 230. I can always switch back when I have rewired my whole garage but for now for ease of the occasional use I want to wire it as 110. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/26 1:37
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| tjpreul | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Electric motors can have a variety of input voltages depending on how they were made. There will be a plate to tell you what wires to connect depending on the input voltage. When I was installing lifts and elevators the motors were set up so the manufacturers could use a single motor for all applications. We would use Leeson motors.
Here is a plate (if the picture is big enough to see). Attach file: motor.jpg (38.10 KB) |
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Posted on: 2012/9/26 2:53
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| teebee | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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That's good news. Like said before, motors can be used on different voltages and changing them over is generally just switching some wires around.
What is the amp rating of your motor? |
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Posted on: 2012/9/26 12:36
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Any electricians in the ranks? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
The label on the motor doesn't indicate an amp rating unless it's coded by something I am not familiar with. |
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Posted on: 2012/9/27 2:33
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