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| 383tpimachine | Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
 
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So looking for a pretty bulletproof setup. Looking to make 650rwhp but want the ability to change a pulley and jump to 800-850.
So far looking at: Dart 4.125 SHP block http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DRT-31161211/ callies dragonslayer 3.75 crank Diamond pistons for 6inch rod http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/diamon ... h-pistons-4-125-bore.html callies 6 inch rods http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cpi-u19135/overview/ or http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cpi-a6000cs2a2ah/overview/ And ARP hardware throughout How does this all look? CR will be 9.5:1. I have heard the compstar will be fine but a rating of 700flywheel is unnerving. |
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Posted on: 2013/10/18 1:33
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| bogus | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I donno about the 400 block. The factory ones were not all that strong.
You could do all that on a 383 conversion. |
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Posted on: 2013/10/18 6:45
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| istter1 | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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My 383 is 9.5-1
I would talk to Dave again love my stroker Attach file:  stroker almost ready.jpg (102.08 KB) 389443_149560225189930_969696859_n.jpg (73.02 KB) |
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Posted on: 2013/10/18 13:16
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Compression seems high
which blower? Intercooler? Math?! |
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Posted on: 2013/10/18 21:26
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| bogus | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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compression is fine if the boost is kept down...
low boost, higher compression = throttle response from hell! What compression:boost ratio are you running? |
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Posted on: 2013/10/18 21:52
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
DART SHP 400 block. Good to 1500 hp. No steam ports and splayed 4 bolt mains. Should be the strongest piece of the engine. Quote:
9.5 is standard for most applications now that I have followed. Just will need to drop timing down with iat's on the hotter days. V7 YSI. Intercooler will either be a LARGE A2A or a midrange A2W. The intercooler is dependant on how it looks once I delete the AC and see what I can fit. The A2W will be mor compact but I want to avoid running the water, depending on another pump, and adding the weight. Quote:
Boost will be pulley specific. Plan to start with 14lb pulley and go up or down depending on power level from there. Heads are coming from TEA and will be using some MLS gaskets. |
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Posted on: 2013/10/18 23:01
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Senior Guru
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I'd be worried about the cooling
it's hard enough to keep a supercharged engine cool power depends on how fast you spin blower |
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Posted on: 2013/10/19 18:11
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| bogus | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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under normal conditions - meaning cars with airflow - that would work.
The C4 does not have very good under hood air flow. I would get a highrise hood to allow the heat out. And BC is right, blower speed is the key to power... same applies to turbo's... My concern with the 400 block is the limits on heads and intakes... the deck height is different. Also, the OEM 400 had some seriously thin cylinder walls. It was just pushing the SBC to a limit. I know that the aftermarket has some bad ass blocks, but this just doesn't sound like a practical fix. Either go smaller, or go nuts and do a small big block.  Personally, a 383 will do all of this... without needing custom bits... AFR heads that fit... intake options... |
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Posted on: 2013/10/19 23:53
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
Dewitts, spal puller, spal pusher, and an upgraded water pump. If that doesnt work I will take out the fog lights and even further if that doesnt work I will cut up the front license plate hole. Quote:
Read above for underhood flow. I also have my custom hood going on with the SS scoop in the front. Will have some holes in the rear to allow it to escape as well. As for the strength of the block "The new Dart Special High Performance Chevy small block engines are manufactured from high-nickel iron for superior strength and feature siamese cylinders with 4.000 or 4.125 in. bore sizes. The cylinder walls are a minimum of .230 in. thick at a 4.165 in. bore. The Dart Special High Performance blocks are machined using precision, digital CNC equipment and are virtually ready to assemble right out of the box after a final cylinder hone. The decks are even and parallel within .002 in., and the lifter bores, cam, and main tunnels are finished. The Dart Special High Performance blocks are designed for compatibility with stock components, so no costly special parts are required for assembly." I did my research on this piece to use a stock block or aftermarket. These blocks have been high 7s and are street driven as 440s cube motors. I will be starting with the first pulley I ordered and get a new, likely bigger, pulley to slow the blower down where I get the power I want. Intake is a HSR highly ported. Heads will be in the 205-215 range with a cam matched to the head flow and my intended purpose. The rods are my biggest concern with either the compstar or the ultras. Compastars survive in 900rwhp LSx cars but I have not found anything in gen 1 performance applications. |
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Posted on: 2013/10/20 13:53
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| PeteK | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Quote:
All external dimensions are the same for a 400 block. Any "traditional" small block head or intake, and headers will fit. Ford guys have fits when the jump from the 302 block platform to the 351 block platform. In regards to cylinder wall thickness, my experiences are opposite. Post 1977 small blocks (regardless of size) have thin cylinder walls. The 400's that I have been involved with have sonic checked thicker than the typical 1 pc rear main seal block that is the norm in todays builds. I never did understand the heat concern with a 400 block, and aluminum cylinder heads. Old wives tale that I have never seen happen. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/10 14:21
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| PeteK | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Great parts choices in my opinion. Not only are the crank and rods great quality, but they tend to hold their dimensions years later. My piston of choice is the SRP. But the best balances you can afford on it, and best flexplte as well. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/10 14:33
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| PeteK | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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I just noticed the pistons you listed are 4032 alloy.
For the power you intend to make, and considering the boost, you may want to consider a piston with 2618 alloy. Food for thought. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/10 14:51
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| bogus | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Pete - I stand corrected... thanks for the info!
A lot of old time engine guys never did like the 400... perhaps it was an emissions engine? |
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Posted on: 2013/11/14 19:13
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| PeteK | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Moderator
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There are 3 issues on a stock 400 block that contribute to the heat issue, in my opinion.
The cylinder walls are siamesed, so coolant flow is slightly restricted (restricted may be the wrong word, but close enough). Connecting rods are approx. 1/4 inch shorter than other small blocks, so the side loading on the cylinder wall was greater. All production 400's had crappy iron heads. In a performance build, the rod used is normally 6 inch, so that brings the side loading in line with a stock 350. One thing is certain. If building a 400 or so cube small block and boosting it to the 700 hp level, heat will be an issue that will need mitigation. The siamesed cylinders (in my opinion) are such a tiny portion of the equation, that is not worth thinking about. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/14 23:07
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
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Thanks pete for the advice. I will look into some similar dimension pistons made of 2618.
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Posted on: 2013/11/15 2:54
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Senior Guru
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Went with the shorter rods
Why? Better ring sealing |
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Posted on: 2013/11/15 19:43
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| PeteK | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Moderator
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Maybe weight.
Bigger piston and smaller rod still did become light enough. There wasn't enough space in the crank case for the counterweights to be increased (to allow it to remain internally balanced). GM hung the extra balancing weight on the flywheel/flexplate to achieve the goal. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/15 22:00
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Senior Guru
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Mine's internally balanced, but he needed to go to a different crank to get it done
And it's just a 383 |
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Posted on: 2013/11/16 13:08
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
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Pete,
After looking through SRP and a few other vendors I find very few 2618 choices. CP offers a nice piece as does Racetec. Icon (never heard of them) also makes one within spec for my setup. http://www.buyracingparts.com/pistons ... re-375-stroke-6-rods.html http://www.buyracingparts.com/pistons ... stons-4125-3750-6000.html http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/icon-i ... h-pistons-4-125-bore.html |
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Posted on: 2013/11/16 20:39
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Quote:
Race Tec is owned by Wayne Brooks the former owner of JE Pistons. ICON Pistons is the re-named Forged line from Keith Black. There are lots of pistons out there that will work fine - you just need to have TEA or whoever does the heads make a small adjustment on the cumbustion chamber when they do the heads.... Probe's SRS pistons are 2618 alloy... http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/piston ... 377-400-434/dish-top.html Diamond has a shelf piston that will also work... http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/piston ... sh-pistons4-125-bore.html JE has a shelf piston that will work. http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/piston ... e-pistons-4-125-bore.html The Wiseco Pro Tru line has 3 dished piston options for the 400. http://www.summitracing.com/search/de ... fault&SortOrder=Ascending As far as the strength of the Compstar line of rods and cranks for what your doing - I wouldn't worry about it... On a forced induction engine the tune up is more important than the "quality" of the parts inside. Most of the 4340 forged imported cranks and rods are plenty strong. Will |
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Posted on: 2013/11/18 14:10
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
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Decided on the CP pistons. Now time to start looking at intercoolers. Yay custom pieces.
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Posted on: 2013/12/4 1:24
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
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Lil update:
Lil M block 400 9.3cr with mamofied 235 heads, YT shaftmount rockers, mamo cam, Hogan intake, callies dragon crank, callies billet rods, coil on plug, and YSI. Cant wait for November to drop some serious cash in black friday sales. |
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Posted on: 2014/9/11 2:33
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Senior Guru
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Any thoughts on using Meth/Water injection?
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Posted on: 2014/9/12 0:55
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: Building a boost friendly 400 | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
Honestly I am still on the fence. I know it works very well but is still a crutch. Regardless it will get a IC be it A2A or A2W. If I do A2W I will not run any meth and have to adjust some things in the cab to mount my battery and water tank in the hatch. A2A I can do the same with a 3-5 gallon meth tank on a hobb switch. This sounds like the best plan to me but that is one more thing to go wrong and possible go BOOM. |
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Posted on: 2014/9/12 13:05
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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