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| bogus | Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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As I mentioned in the C4 Chat thread (First Corvette Guru Project Car), I am planning the audio system in Bastet44's 87 coupe.
First and foremost, bass, to her, is a style issue - some music sounds better with the bass up and others not so right. Detail and accuracy is also very important. With that in mind, the subs will be a pair of 8" subs in the rear enclosures. This will also maintain space, which she wants to keep. Three way components in the front. I know this isn't easy, but I am leaning toward using the dash speaker enclosures for mids and/or tweets and then using the doors for bigger 6" mid-basses. The head unit will be HD ready and will have Sirius. I want to get the Alpine that also does DVD audio. I can then rip a number of MP3s to DVD and go to town... 4 gigs per disk without needing a separate cable for an iPOD or whatnot. Amplification will be compact - one 3-channel amp, or one 2-channel and one mono amp. I will want at least 150 watts for the front stage and 400+ for the subs. I am still debating the actual components, but that is the design. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 7:04
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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I have a Delco radio cassette. Its pretty good....
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 10:53
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| red_johnny | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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I have one of those radios that takes a cable and I love it. All I have to do is take out the SD card to rearrange what music I want. I can understand about the DVD thing but anytime you want new music on it you would have to make a new dvd. Also are you going to mount the tweeters in the dash? You might consider getting the tweets you can aim for better sound stage. Do you think that 150 is enough for the fronts when you would be using 400+ for the rear? I like my bass too but that might be too much of a difference when you divide it up into all the front speakers. Might want to consider a 400 watt for the fronts and about 500-600 for the rear. Just my opinion though.
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 12:42
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| Matatk | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Webmaster
 
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Wow...that pisses me off. I just typed this whole damn thing and when I tried to post it, it gave me an error and deleted everything!!!! grr. Ok, here I go again.
As I first typed...I've been out the the audio hobby for a while, but here's my take on things. 1) Front components. By the way you are talking, you want to mount three separate front speakers per channel? Why?There are some very good 2-way component systems out there. The majority of audio listening is the mid range speaker. The C4 is not an ideal audio setup. You would be best to build kickpods, but due to lack of space, that's not feasible. Mounting the mids and tweeter in the dash would be pointless, imho, and would probably sound worse than just a basic coaxial speaker in the door. You can't "tune" them if they are in the dash. I would put a good quality component in the door opening with the tweeter surface mounted on the a-pillar at the appropriate height. 2) Subwoofers. Any reason you want two 8's? Personally, I don't think they are good bass speakers. Very little surface area. I would prefer one 10. You will get a deeper bass response and more accurate reproduction. Two 8's will keep up well with very fast dance/techno, but the 10 will also do well. Just keep it limited to a tightly sealed small box (small meaning the airspace in the box based on speaker specs). Don't port the box or use the higher end on the air space. I'm assuming you want SQ as opposed to SPL. 3) Amps. I noticed Red suggested a 400 watt amp for the front components. I can't agree with that. You won't find many component speakers over 100 rms. 400 would be way overkill and would be a larger amp, wasting space and money. As far as an amp for the subs, depends on what setup you go with. You need to match the amp to the subs. My personal experience, I ran an old school PPI powerclass (before they were bought out and became crap) 300 RMS amp. I ran multiple setups with both one and two tens, varying boxes, cars, wiring. My brother now uses that same amp (9 years later) for a 12" Memphis Audio sub that absolutely pounds. 4) Head units. Lots of good ones out there, personal preference. Overall, there are a lot of options out there. In my opinion, quality audio pieces cost more, but you get what you pay for. Matthew I yahooed a couple of pages, check these...always good to do lots of research. http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthrea ... ber/305793/page/0/fpart/1 http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~61864~PN~1 |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 14:41
Edited by Matatk on 2008/4/13 15:00:42 |
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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not when you are an audiophile... |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 18:23
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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no. Wattage distribution isn't even front to rear. More powerful amps are also more effecient. As it stands, the better amp would work better to produce the 250 watts I need when it is only working at 70% duty cycle, versus, an amp running at 100%. Clipping is a bitch. Also, the DVD would be a perminant copy. I can put 4 or 5 full CDs onto one DVD and it will create a backup of those CDs and be playable on a DVD audio head unit. The idea is that 3 or 4 DVDs and that's that. Done. Neither of us want the extra cable, nor do we have the desire to buy another media player. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 18:26
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
Sorry... it's annoying... very annoying. I thought it would error and present the text for copying? It does this for me. Quote:
I have three-ways installed in my 92. Canton Pullman RS3's. They are a 1" tweeter, 4" mid and 6" mid bass. The tweets are in the door tops, the mids are in the carpeted patch on the door panel (in front of the hand grab area) and the mid-basses are in the factory kick panel locations. Installing a kick panel speaker in the earlier C4 is gonna be a bitch. However, I can do a lot in the doors. I just prefer the sound distrubtion of the three ways. Too many of todays 2 ways have such horrible off axis performance, they are pointless. It's one thing I dislike about Boston's... I had a set of Z6s... oh, nice speakers, sure, but they sounded like crap in the C4. The dash enclosures seem convienent, but not perfect, I will agree. If I fire them straight up, I would be wise to reverse the phase of the wiring so they reflect back in the correct phase. But that gets messy even on a good day. I also don't like the distance between the speakers. The Canton's work well, especially separated. They create a lovely soundfield that engulfs the front stage. It is forward, present and lively. Quote:
Space. She wants to keep the space of the rear hatch or I would to a single 10". So a compromise will have to be struck. It's like a lot of things... the 8's will provide a nice bass that isn't overpowering, but should still sound good. It's no different than not being able to run headers... you lose 20 hp, so? Quote:
The amps will be selected with the subs. I am leaning towards ArcAudio or something to that effect. There is also a chance she will get my JL Audio 500/5. If that is the case, it is able bi-amplify. that would use the "rear" channel to run the tweets (25 x 2) and the front (100 x 2) to run the mids and mid basses and a 250w mono to run the subs. Quote:
tons. I wish Alpine would get their act back together... Quote:
yup. almost too many. Quote:
Thanks! |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 18:41
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| red_johnny | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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I understand the clipping and more powerful = more effecient which is why I suggested a better powered amp for the front. You say you wanted 3 way in the front right? tweets, mid range, and a mid bass in the door? Thats 3 sets of speakers. I dunno if a 150 watt amp at 70% would really give you what you want. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 19:12
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Actually, it does. Smaller drivers, thanks to the passive crossover, don't require as much power.
The amp I want to get for myself is this one: http://www.butleraudio.com/tdb2150.php |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 20:19
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| red_johnny | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Rated Power (all channels driven): Holy crap batman! Going from 2 by 150 to 500 bridged is impressive especially at 4 ohms |
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Posted on: 2008/4/13 23:58
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| Matatk | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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I figured you were going to build the box into the rear cargo area under the floor with the sub pointed straight up. That way you wouldn't lose any "normal" space, just the tray storage area. Plus, with the rear glass design, the soundwaves will bounce and travel forward. Were you planning on building free standing boxes towards the rear? On all the other levels, I didn't know you were an audiophile :thumbright: Three-ways shouldn't be a problem afterall. Just more work than I plan on putting into mine when I redo the stereo. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2008/4/14 2:22
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| -=Jeff=- | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Master Guru
 
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My guess is the 8s are going in the OEM rear locations. I had 8s in my 89 that way
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Posted on: 2008/4/29 18:39
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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8's can't provide "a nice bass". They will provide garbage, higher pitched rattling base and won't even thump or play the lows.
But if I'm wrong, I'll be glad to hear it. Why don't you just build up the storage bin behind the passenger seat with glass, then mount something under the lid? Don't bother with jamming an MDF enclosure in there. Too much work to maximize the volume, and even then you still get less volume. I engineered the biggest damn 3/4" mdf box that could fit in there and even that was only about 0.6 cu ft. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/29 20:13
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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.6 cf is all that is needed for a 10".
However, I have heard several 8" systems, and they are surprisingly nice. Remember, the subs have improved. A friend had a pair of 8" Bostons in his pickup, very nice tonal quality and clearity. Nelson V had a pair of JL Audio 8w7's in his Vette... them suckers would HIT. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/30 2:14
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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what were they and how did it sound? |
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Posted on: 2008/4/30 2:15
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| NelsonV | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Fixed: Nelson V had (will have again) a pair of JL Audio 8w7's in his (former, soon-to-be-no-longer-former) Vette... them suckers would (still) HIT. BTW, the date is June 11. Ive said it once, and Ill say it again Powered correctly, even one 8W7 can be made to suffice in a Coupe, if youre really short on space. Arc Audio, you say? Hmm Good luck! |
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Posted on: 2008/4/30 3:52
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I need to get the car running, then I will focus on audio.
But I need to lay the ground work, first. What I have learned is a bit depressing, tho... all the good nav based head units are equipped only with 2v RCAs... that sucks. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/30 4:58
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| -=Jeff=- | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
They were Elemental Designs 9kV.2s actually they sounded good to me, for 8s, better then the Kickers they replaced.. front stage was CDT 3ways ( no I did not pay CDT prices) I have $200 in the fronts.. a CDT EF-61 set and a CL-4 with their ES/HD 300 X overs.. I was using Elemental Designs NINe.2x Amps in the 89 I have a NINe.5 for the Z |
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Posted on: 2008/5/1 0:30
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-=Jeff=- 1990 Corvette ZR-1 #1051 |
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| bogus | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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your front stage is similar to mine. I have a set of Canton RS3s... but I didn't pay the price for them. I got mine used.
 I really need to find a GOOD audio store around here (LA, CA)... there are a ton of shops, but most seem to sell bass and that's that. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/1 2:45
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| ninetyfivevette | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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A good set certainly will. I've got a pair of older JL 8W3 in the rear speaker locations and they do quite well at all reasonable frequencies. They are certainly a compromise though, there is no debating that. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/1 16:43
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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Well I'm kinda disappointed with my 10" IDQ10 (image dynamics) in the .6 cu ft 3/4" mdf in the rear storage bin. It seems like it clips before it even hits hard. Or maybe the box isn't secured well enough.
Do you guys have recommendations for a replacement? Mounting depth and height is somewhat limited due to the angle of the box. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/1 21:20
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| Matatk | Re: Bastets 87 Audio Concept (CG Project Car) | ||
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I don't know exactly which model you have, but I scrolled through their website and your box size seems fine. If you have clipping the most common cause is that you have the radio too loud and your gain too high. Your amp probably isn't pushing enough power. Turn down the gain and set it properly and it shoult eliminate the clipping.
Matthew edit - website - what do you have and what amp? http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/pdf/ |
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Posted on: 2008/5/1 22:19
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