oil in opti...... [Forums - C4 Technical]

C4 Technical > oil in opti......
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Weavsvet	oil in opti......	#1
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Why? Through vacuum line? Is that much oil supposed to be in the intake? Vent tube on valve cover maybe? Attach file: oil in second opti 006.JPG (383.71 KB)
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 11:54

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pianoguy	Re: oil in opti......	#2
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Hey, Mike! Are you sure it's coming in through the vacuum line? How's your PCV valve?
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 13:36
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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BrianCunningham	Re: oil in opti......	#3
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	How does the front of the engine look? Encrusted in oil?
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 14:18
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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BillH	Re: oil in opti......	#4
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: How does the front of the engine look? Encrusted in oil? Agreed, the GM opti has a paper gasket that can easily leak. And what Brad said, look in the lines for oil. And, what does the seal in the timing cover look like, is there oil running down the cover? And is nthe seal in the opti housing intact? Is there evidence of oil close to the seal? PVC vacuum can help pull it in there.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 15:01
	_________________ Every man dies but not every man lives.
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bogus	Re: oil in opti......	#5
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	It can also migrate through the front cover or from the water pump. If it's soaked in enough, it will get in there. I would consider replacing all gaskets and seals on the front of the engine if it's nasty looking.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 15:16
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#6
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pianoguy wrote: Hey, Mike! Are you sure it's coming in through the vacuum line? How's your PCV valve? Brad, I don't know where it is coming from. This is the second opti I have had on the car since the cam swap I did. The first one may be ok, it doid not have oil in it. The third one is still on the car. I'll get it off this afternoon and see what it looks like. I have a new vacuum line that is going on there when I reassemble it.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 17:11

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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#7
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: BillH wrote: Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: How does the front of the engine look? Encrusted in oil? Agreed, the GM opti has a paper gasket that can easily leak. And what Brad said, look in the lines for oil. And, what does the seal in the timing cover look like, is there oil running down the cover? And is nthe seal in the opti housing intact? Is there evidence of oil close to the seal? PVC vacuum can help pull it in there. I wasn't aware of a gasket on the opti. The tc seal is new. The outside of the opti is dry as a bone. No oil leaks at all on the front of the engine. It just about has to be coming in through the vac line.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 17:13

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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#8
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: bogus wrote: It can also migrate through the front cover or from the water pump. If it's soaked in enough, it will get in there. I would consider replacing all gaskets and seals on the front of the engine if it's nasty looking. I have a electric wp.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 17:14

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BillH	Re: oil in opti......	#9
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: Weavsvet wrote: I wasn't aware of a gasket on the opti. The tc seal is new. The outside of the opti is dry as a bone. No oil leaks at all on the front of the engine. It just about has to be coming in through the vac line. Probably has nothing to do with your problem but this is the gasket. Note: early model,92. Attach file: IMGP0640.jpg (0.00 KB)
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 17:36
	_________________ Every man dies but not every man lives.
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bogus	Re: oil in opti......	#10
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	if the PVC is not working, crank case pressures will rise and could feedback oil down the line.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 18:42
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#11
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	Quote: bogus wrote: if the PVC is not working, crank case pressures will rise and could feedback oil down the line. please explain this.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 19:23

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BrianCunningham	Re: oil in opti......	#12
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	he's right if the PVC is clogged, excess pressure will turn the vacuum line into a pressure line, there's no back flow preventer. since the opti is a low point, that's where the oil will go.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 19:36
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#13
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: he's right if the PVC is clogged, excess pressure will turn the vacuum line into a pressure line, there's no back flow preventer. since the opti is a low point, that's where the oil will go. I will check it out but the pcv valve isn't that old, maybe a six months. I thought there was a backflow valve though. The little one just after it connects to the intake. The other one is a flow reducer if I'm not mistaken. At any rate I have a new harness now with all new valves so when it goes back together AGAIN I'm hoping it will be correct. Thanks Brian
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 20:16

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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#14
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: he's right if the PVC is clogged, excess pressure will turn the vacuum line into a pressure line, there's no back flow preventer. since the opti is a low point, that's where the oil will go. i see no way of this making sense.. the "pcv" is separate from the vacuum line for the opti.. and by the pcv being open or closed does not take away from engine creating a significant suppy of vaccum pulling both from both the pcv and air from the opti.. i don't see where any pressure is coming from
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 20:57

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BrianCunningham	Re: oil in opti......	#15
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	they both go into the manifold
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 21:02
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#16
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	I got the other opti off and was expecting it to be full of oil like the last one. It was not. Looked completely dry inside. I did check the pcv valve and it was full of oil and would hardly rattle at all. So now I'm back to square one of this no start situation.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 21:17

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BrianCunningham	Re: oil in opti......	#17
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	I had a no start when I didn't clock my opti the right way and yes you can actually install them wrong.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 21:22
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#18
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: they both go into the manifold i am aware that both go into the manifold but that in no way breaks down or explains anything you posted
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 21:33

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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#19
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	I'm positive it's correct. Here's the deal....... I put this cam in a couple of months back. I got the car running and it was a pig on the dyno 277 rwhp. I tore it back dwn and checked everything and I mean everything. I put the old opti back on in place of the new one I had on it after the install. The car fired right up and I drove it a little that day, parked it with intentions of going to the dyno the next day. The next day comes, the car would not crank. It would turn over but not fire. I checked ignition, fuel all the stuff. I did not open the opti up at that time though. Once again I figure opti, I order another new one, install it. The car runs the best it ever has. I drive it some that day park it with intentions on going to the dyno the next day. I go to crank it, it cranks. I go to the dyno it's best pull of three is 333 rwhp and 328 torque. This is with stock heads, I'm happy. I drive home,park it. I don't even crank it for a few days. So I decide it needs to run some. I go to crank it, no dice. Th exact same thing it did the last time. Turns over but will not fire. I have tore it back down again in hopes this opti was full of something....anything. It was not. So that is where I am at the moment.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 21:38

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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#20
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	prOzac has been kind enough to help me with it. I was hoping to get it running long enough for him to do some data logging. That dosen't seem to happening anytime soon.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 21:44

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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#21
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	and its throwing no codes? the opti is the only parts you have changed? what i got for your last post the lastest opti had no oil in it.. so its not a fluke pcv back-pressure horseshit theory.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 21:47
	_________________ 96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit.
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#22
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pr0zac wrote: and its throwing no codes? the opti is the only parts you have changed? what i got for your last post the lastest opti had no oil in it.. so its not a fluke pcv back-pressure horseshit theory. As far as the no start, yes it's the only thing. I've even tried three different PCM's. The motor is obviously running half way decent when it runs. Some have said ignition switch. I have a new one so maybe I should try it but I was getting spark to ground with the coil wire off the opti. Doesn't seem like the switch would be at fault if that's happening. And no codes.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 22:06

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PeteK	Re: oil in opti......	#23
Moderator Nanticoke, Pa 1311 Posts Member since: 2006/7/3 0:00	Is it possible that the oil filled opti was used? Maybe someone bought it, installed it on a bad motor and returned it? Then sold to you as new? I cannot imagine how that much oil can be pulled into the opti (from the intake) and the motor not be screwed.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 22:25
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#24
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: PeteK wrote: Is it possible that the oil filled opti was used? Maybe someone bought it, installed it on a bad motor and returned it? Then sold to you as new? I cannot imagine how that much oil can be pulled into the opti (from the intake) and the motor not be screwed. Pete, that oil filled one was on the car before I did the swap. It was fine when I tore it all down the first time. I just replaced it because I was there. It was opti #2.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 22:29

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PeteK	Re: oil in opti......	#25
Moderator Nanticoke, Pa 1311 Posts Member since: 2006/7/3 0:00	Quote: Weavsvet wrote: Quote: PeteK wrote: Is it possible that the oil filled opti was used? Maybe someone bought it, installed it on a bad motor and returned it? Then sold to you as new? I cannot imagine how that much oil can be pulled into the opti (from the intake) and the motor not be screwed. Pete, that oil filled one was on the car before I did the swap. It was fine when I tore it all down the first time. I just replaced it because I was there. It was opti #2. Gottcha. I misunderstood.
	Posted on: 2010/1/13 22:36
	_________________ "It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are."
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#26
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	OK, I put the very first opti I had on when I first did this cam swap back on the car. It's the only one that did not fail completely. It's not all back together though. Just put the damper back on to see if it would fire, it did. I guess all I can do now is put it back together and see what happens. I know this though, I'm not hooking that vac line up on the opti just yet. I want to see if it will run for more than a couple of days without it. I have the new vacuum harness installed so we'll see if it works after a few days. On another note, the elbow that was on the pcv valve was rather flimsy or soft. I think it was losing a little suction there. Hopefully, that is what was causing all of this oil build up. I had a vacuum of 16 when I first checked it. That was right after it was first running after the swap. Is that enough? The brakes seemed ok but I never really put them to the test. Maybe part of the issue here is this cam is a little big for stock heads. Is that a possibility? It's a Bullet cam from LE. 226/230 .565/.565 111 lsa. Duration at .006 is .280/284 advertised. I also have 1.6 rr's so it's a little more that that.
	Posted on: 2010/1/14 22:51

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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#27
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	i wouldn't say that its the cams fault or that its wrong.. i think you should continue with the idea that you stated and see how it goes.. how do your plugs look btw.. if the engine has that much oil floating around in it your plugs would most likely show some signs of it.
	Posted on: 2010/1/15 1:44
	_________________ 96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit.
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pianoguy	Re: oil in opti......	#28
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Quote: pr0zac wrote: .... how do your plugs look btw.. if the engine has that much oil floating around in it your plugs would most likely show some signs of it. Ditto - I was going to suggest checking your throttle body and seeing if it has oil on the back side.
	Posted on: 2010/1/15 1:54
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#29
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pr0zac wrote: i wouldn't say that its the cams fault or that its wrong.. i think you should continue with the idea that you stated and see how it goes.. how do your plugs look btw.. if the engine has that much oil floating around in it your plugs would most likely show some signs of it. Like I have said, this is opti #2 that had the oil in it. The opti I just took off the car was dry inside but evidently failed because I replaced it and the car fired right up. How good/long it runs I don't know yet. I haven't removed the plugs this time mainly because the car was running decent and I saw no need to. There was no smoke (especially blue smoke) so they should be fine. Hopefully I'll get it back together this afternoon. If not today tomorrow for sure. On another note, I sent one of my PCM's off to a different tuner to get it redone. I got a email from him last night saying the tune was bad that I had been running. Basically it was about 98% stock. This sort of thing is way over my head so all I can do is try his tune and see what happens. I wished I had done this a long time ago. I always felt the tune wasn't right that I had in the car. Even before this cam swap.
	Posted on: 2010/1/15 7:42

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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#30
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	what injectors do you have?
	Posted on: 2010/1/15 15:02
	_________________ 96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit.
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#31
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pr0zac wrote: what injectors do you have? 24lb Bosch EV1's http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sho ... p?_a=viewProd&productId=4
	Posted on: 2010/1/15 17:31

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BrianCunningham	Re: oil in opti......	#32
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	the opti vacuum system has a feed line that runs up to the air intake track, accordion. If that has a hole in it, it can suck any oil in that's on the front of the engine.
	Posted on: 2010/1/15 19:05
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#33
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	i think that those injectors are a bit small for that setup.. ESPECIALLY if you were running a stockish lt1 tune. you had to be running very lean. according to the website they are direct replacements for 22lb/hr 86-92 tpi injectors. i know they will work with proper tuning cause i have heard of people running 19lb injectors on 550hp engines. what is your fuel pressure set at? youd need to be at 50 or better i would imagine to keep your duty cycle down..
	Posted on: 2010/1/16 4:28
	_________________ 96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit.
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#34
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pr0zac wrote: i think that those injectors are a bit small for that setup.. ESPECIALLY if you were running a stockish lt1 tune. you had to be running very lean. according to the website they are direct replacements for 22lb/hr 86-92 tpi injectors. i know they will work with proper tuning cause i have heard of people running 19lb injectors on 550hp engines. what is your fuel pressure set at? youd need to be at 50 or better i would imagine to keep your duty cycle down.. I contacted Jon at FIC about them a while back and said they would be fine for now. I don't know what the fp is set at. I have emailed the new guy I have doing my new tune to ask him. He also was wondering about the injectors being enough. After sending the link to him he said those would probably flow at almost 27 and would be enough until I had the heads redone. I'm really excited about getting this new tune!
	Posted on: 2010/1/16 11:57

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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#35
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pr0zac wrote: i think that those injectors are a bit small for that setup.. ESPECIALLY if you were running a stockish lt1 tune. you had to be running very lean. according to the website they are direct replacements for 22lb/hr 86-92 tpi injectors. i know they will work with proper tuning cause i have heard of people running 19lb injectors on 550hp engines. what is your fuel pressure set at? youd need to be at 50 or better i would imagine to keep your duty cycle down.. I decided to go ahead and get new injectors and after talking to Jon at FIC I ended up with FMS 32lb Red Tops.
	Posted on: 2010/1/17 12:33

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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#36
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	i have a set of red tops in my closet.
	Posted on: 2010/1/17 14:54
	_________________ 96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit.
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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#37
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	Quote: pr0zac wrote: i have a set of red tops in my closet. These? http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sho ... p?_a=viewProd&productId=5
	Posted on: 2010/1/17 15:34

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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#38
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sho ... _a=viewProd&productId=102
	Posted on: 2010/1/17 23:47
	_________________ 96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit.
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lltrevino	Re: oil in opti......	#39
Guru Newb Slinger, WI 17 Posts Member since: 2008/10/29 23:18	Quote: pr0zac wrote: Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: they both go into the manifold i am aware that both go into the manifold but that in no way breaks down or explains anything you posted
	Posted on: 2010/1/19 5:47

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BrianCunningham	Re: oil in opti......	#40
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Quote: lltrevino wrote: Quote: pr0zac wrote: Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: they both go into the manifold i am aware that both go into the manifold but that in no way breaks down or explains anything you posted OK what do you think caused it then?
	Posted on: 2010/1/19 14:40
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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Steve40th	Re: oil in opti......	#41
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	I think it leaked through the cap seal from the timing chain cover seals. Regardless, its been a long road for this guy.
	Posted on: 2010/1/20 2:37
	_________________ Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika
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pr0zac	Re: oil in opti......	#42
Elite Guru Pittsburgh 1045 Posts Member since: 2008/10/20 23:28	Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: Quote: lltrevino wrote: Quote: pr0zac wrote: Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: they both go into the manifold i am aware that both go into the manifold but that in no way breaks down or explains anything you posted OK what do you think caused it then? without looking at it in person and hearing that it wasn't smoking nor is there oil in the intake manifold it kind of rules out your theory. it obviously had to come from another source other than the highest port on the intake manifold.
	Posted on: 2010/1/20 23:34

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Weavsvet	Re: oil in opti......	#43
Senior Guru 446 Posts Member since: 2008/9/16 9:08	I've been cranking and driving the car everyday this week and so far so good. I still have the opti disconnected from the intake though. I got my new tune today and the injectors from Jon. Idle is much better and all in all drive ability is greatly improved. No more shaking at a stop light. It's raining here so all I could do was a short cruise. I had a pretty good cam surge before with the old tune. Now that is gone. It will get it's true test this Sat. at the dyno and then Rockingham on the 30th. I always thought that other tune was bad. The cost of the new tune is the best $100.00 I've ever spent.
	Posted on: 2010/1/22 0:23

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pianoguy	Re: oil in opti......	#44
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Good to hear, Mike - hope it shines on Saturday!
	Posted on: 2010/1/22 2:18
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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