C4 frame flex [Forums - C4 Technical]

C4 Technical > C4 frame flex	« 1 (2)
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PLRX	Re: C4 frame flex	#51
Senior Guru SoCal 212 Posts Member since: 2009/11/24 5:57	will these bars work?
	Posted on: 2011/2/18 3:49

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bogus	Re: C4 frame flex	#52
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Quote: bogus wrote: There are two things I need before I go on track with my C4 - one is brakes; the other? A targa truss type upgrade. I am too tall in the body to fit right with a helmet on. Oh, and a tire budget would be nice, too. Those sound more like excuses than reasons. Stock brakes are fine if in working order. Have you pulled the headliner? Also some helmets are bigger than others. I have a SA rated helmet that's huge. Then I have a motorcycle helmet that is much smaller. Both are Snell rated and acceptable at a HPDE. I need to bleed them, and do a rebuild of the calipers. They have about 130k miles on'm, so I would like them to be fresher. I am not pulling the headliner... sorry... I don't mind getting the truss, or even a helmet that fits...
	Posted on: 2011/2/18 9:13
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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-=Jeff=-	Re: C4 frame flex	#53
Master Guru Bartlett, IL 573 Posts Member since: 2007/12/20 0:00	Quote: PLRX wrote: will these bars work? I feel that they do
	Posted on: 2011/2/18 13:21
	_________________ -=Jeff=- 1990 Corvette ZR-1 #1051
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SpectatorRacing	Re: C4 frame flex	#54
Elite Guru 1721 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	I hate to be a downer but the RD parts are a waste of money...at least for actual performance. "Feel" is different than "grip". Even further, feel on the street is WAAAY different than grip on the track. If you want your car to "feel" better, tighter, whatever, get one. In every post I've seen the owner says that their car "felt" better. Conversely, nobody who races a C4 uses one. I think the perception of "feel" probably means it makes the steering more responsive, meaning twitchy. This does not translate to ultimate grip; slow, smooth steering inputs are required at or near the limit. Twitchy steering will get you killed. In fact, I know the guy who owns the yellow RD C4 race car on their website, he bought it a few years back. He removed the RD parts from it... Stiffening the front of a car makes it UNDERSTEER. The C4 already does this withought additional help. Sadly for the RD parts, loose is fast. Save your money.
	Posted on: 2011/2/18 19:37
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Steve40th	Re: C4 frame flex	#55
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	Quote: SpectatorRacing wrote: I hate to be a downer but the RD parts are a waste of money...at least for actual performance. "Feel" is different than "grip". Even further, feel on the street is WAAAY different than grip on the track. If you want your car to "feel" better, tighter, whatever, get one. In every post I've seen the owner says that their car "felt" better. Conversely, nobody who races a C4 uses one. I think the perception of "feel" probably means it makes the steering more responsive, meaning twitchy. This does not translate to ultimate grip; slow, smooth steering inputs are required at or near the limit. Twitchy steering will get you killed. In fact, I know the guy who owns the yellow RD C4 race car on their website, he bought it a few years back. He removed the RD parts from it... Stiffening the front of a car makes it UNDERSTEER. The C4 already does this withought additional help. Sadly for the RD parts, loose is fast. Save your money. So, Remove the camber bar and all other parts they sell? The targa truss isnt a feeling thing IMHO. When the steering wheel shakes badly over bumps etc, the targa truss is keeping the car together, as if the roof is on. My steering column is all new internally, so its not the a typical C4 column wiggle. There ST Frame is really no different than most 4 point roll bars sold ont eh market. It ties the left and right together, and when I jack the car up, it doesnt flex. Whether that is a justification to keep it or not is irrelevant, as the track for NHRA/IHRA like it to be in the car when I ran. Anyways, off my soapbox
	Posted on: 2011/2/18 20:27
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BillH	Re: C4 frame flex	#56
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: SpectatorRacing wrote: Stiffening the front of a car makes it UNDERSTEER. The C4 already does this withought additional help. Humm, tuning the suspension on a racecar by using chassis flex (Shudder)
	Posted on: 2011/2/19 15:01
	_________________ Every man dies but not every man lives.
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pianoguy	Re: C4 frame flex	#57
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	BTW, someone at CF is selling a new LTx Camber-Brace (mechanical water pump version) for $125 shipped: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-pa ... race-mechanical-pump.html
	Posted on: 2011/2/20 0:38
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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bogus	Re: C4 frame flex	#58
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	I understand where Jon is coming from... And I have no empirical data to back up or challenge what he says. The targa truss has to help. I am with Steve on this. There is chassis flex and then there is chassis flex. Once the top comes out will cause the firewall to cantelever on the frame. This is really bad. It can damage the frame, over time, and will cause some seriously unpredictable handling. The truss simply replaces what the top does, without the top being there. I am wondering about the merits of the x-brace (remember, factory fix for verts and Z07s) vs the Gordon Killebrew rod design. The x-brace will tie the front and rear together, but also creates a diagonal reinforcement, resisting twist. Gordon's design won't reduce twist, just compression flex.
	Posted on: 2011/2/20 0:56
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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flyboy	Re: C4 frame flex	#59
Elite Guru Westmont, Il. 2632 Posts Member since: 2008/9/28 12:47	Not much info. out there on the Gordon Killebrew brace, but apparently they go for $700(ouch). The R-D cross frame brace is $435.
	Posted on: 2011/2/20 1:37
	_________________ '91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em"
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Jeffvette	Re: C4 frame flex	#60
Elite Guru Not on CF 1297 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Quote: flyboy wrote: I don't have a picture without the brace for comparison but here's one with the jack under the R.R. mounting point. I get three wheels off the ground when jacking either of the two race cars. DRM Rollbar installed on the Z.
	Posted on: 2011/3/1 5:33

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Steve40th	Re: C4 frame flex	#61
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	Quote: Jeffvette wrote: Quote: flyboy wrote: I don't have a picture without the brace for comparison but here's one with the jack under the R.R. mounting point. I get three wheels off the ground when jacking either of the two race cars. DRM Rollbar installed on the Z. Jeff, I didnt even know there was a Vette on your post, with that Avatar. LOL My RD Racing S/T Frame allows me to do the same thing as yours too when I jack mine up.
	Posted on: 2011/3/1 5:44
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SpectatorRacing	Re: C4 frame flex	#62
Elite Guru 1721 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Quote: Jeffvette wrote: I get three wheels off the ground when jacking either of the two race cars. I can do that in turn 3... Any of the items out there that attach under a C4 are going to have limited effectiveness. The strongest part of a C4 frame is the bottom, the frame underneath our cars provides good rigidity. Take a look a the photo Cunningham posted awhile back. The frame goes through those huge box sections on either side. The way to resist torsion is to increase strength at the top, which is why these cars suck with the top off. They are noodles. Increasing the stiffness of the stiffest part of the car may have some marginal improvement, but not worth hundreds of dollars in this guy's opinion. There are SOOOOOOO many ways to improve the handling of a C4, why are we always fixated on these two? Attach file: C4 Floorpan.JPG (0.00 KB)
	Posted on: 2011/3/3 18:44
	_________________ aka Scaryfast
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bogus	Re: C4 frame flex	#63
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	As I stated before, the problem is the way the firewall cantelevers off the frame. I still like the idea of filling the rails with foam, but that isn't the ultimate solution. This is why if I buy anything, it will be a targa truss... Please note, the steel used in the frame is very high strength... ever try drilling into that stuff? I haven't had much success.
	Posted on: 2011/3/3 18:48
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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Steve40th	Re: C4 frame flex	#64
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	Quote: bogus wrote: As I stated before, the problem is the way the firewall cantelevers off the frame. I still like the idea of filling the rails with foam, but that isn't the ultimate solution. This is why if I buy anything, it will be a targa truss... Please note, the steel used in the frame is very high strength... ever try drilling into that stuff? I haven't had much success. I dont even take my roof off anymore, due to weather and my baldness, LOL, here in Hawaii. The sun is brutal here, and it usually rains on one of the coasts daily. Maybe when I get back to the USA mainland, the Targa Truss can be used.
	Posted on: 2011/3/3 18:55
	_________________ Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika
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bogus	Re: C4 frame flex	#65
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	Baldness? Dude, at least you won't get wind blown hair! I know what you mean by the rain... The humidity bounces against the mountains and by 4:30pm, RAIN! Sometimes a lot, sometimes not so much. I would expect SC to be a bit more predictable!
	Posted on: 2011/3/3 19:42
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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Steve40th	Re: C4 frame flex	#66
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	SC will be much more forgiving in regards to the weather. But, I need that heater core done.....
	Posted on: 2011/3/3 19:44
	_________________ Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika
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bogus	Re: C4 frame flex	#67
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	oooh... heater core... that's about as much fun as getting a root canal done, rectally.
	Posted on: 2011/3/3 19:54
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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Steve40th	Re: C4 frame flex	#68
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	Quote: bogus wrote: oooh... heater core... that's about as much fun as getting a root canal done, rectally. Ouch
	Posted on: 2011/3/3 20:11
	_________________ Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika
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