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| LittleBill | 160 stat | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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Ok, after the Metro Cruise I purchased a 160 degree stat from Summit. Before I install it , is there anything I should know- Do I or should I set the fans to kick in at a lower temp.? If so , how? Is there anything in the computer that needs to be changed? Anything with the ECM? ( not that I really know what the ECM is but Iread on the LS1 tech forum it was needed). Or do I simply install the thermostat like I have done with the older small block v-8. Would like to be proactive rather than reactive.
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 0:01
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| BillH | Re: 160 stat | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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There's nothing to do outside of bleeding the air out of the system (the bleeder is on the thermostat housing). The fan/ECM thing dosen't matter, mostly because putting in the 160 won't make the car run any cooler anyway. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 0:18
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Man ran a lot cooler doing that. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 0:32
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| LittleBill | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Guru Newb
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If I run a cooler thermostat, won't that allow the fans to kick on earlier and therefore promote better cooling?
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 1:07
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| captmike13 | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Fans are programmed to come on at a certain temp.
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 1:22
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Mike| BillH | Re: 160 stat | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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No. Mike's correct. The ECM (computer) controls the fan (relays), the primary fan turns on at 226 and the secondary turns on at 235 (varies slightly year to year). There are a couple of other parameters that also turn on the fans but temp wise it's the signal from the cooling sensors. The only thing the 160 will do is make the motor warm up slower and go into closed loop later. The only to change the temps that the fans come on is to reprogram the chip. If you want to do it the easy way, put in a manual switch. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 1:51
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| Ultraman | Re: 160 stat | ||
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2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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I am a little confused....did you mean LT1 in your post? The LS1 is a whole different animal that was intro'd with the C5.
You must reprogram your ECM (computer)to make the fans come on at a lower temp. The thermostat will open now when the coolent reaches 160 not 190 like a stock thermostat and let the coolant circulate. It will not change the timing or the temp (around 230 I think) that the fans come on. On my old C4 the fans ran all the time with the AC on. These cars are made to run a little hotter than the old small blocks did. 190 to 210 is nothing to them. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 1:55
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| josephf31 | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Absolutely correct. Not sure why so many think that installing a lower temp thermostat will make the car run cooler. Doesn't work that way. And as written, it delays warm up, which is not a good thing. Stick with the factory 180 or even 195 you're fine. :-) |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 2:03
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| BillH | Re: 160 stat | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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That's one of the other parameters I mentioned, along with others. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 2:17
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| bogus | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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All C4's from 1986 on used the ECM to control fans... Initially, it was just the one fan, or if you had the HD cooling, the pusher fan in front of the rad.
Later on, the LT1 got 2 fans side by side, and they had their own programming... and it changed over time. In general, the fans come on at 228, turn off at 215. It requires a reprogram to bring them on sooner and shut them off later. Observationally, a 215 on and 200 off is a great setting. As for the t-stat... CentralCoaster put forth a great theory that the t-stat isn't, but it is a heat valve. The various metals inside the engine need to meet a certain temperature... and without the stat being right, they won't. And premature wear can occur. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 4:40
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Senior Guru
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When the thermostat comes on and when then fans come on are separate things.
My fans only come on when the car is sitting (traffic, stop light, parked) they never come on the highway unless the AC is on (back when I had it installed) I reaches the closed loop temp at the same time, it just doesn't heat up as much when it gets there. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 13:59
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| LittleBill | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Guru Newb
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Thanks, Guys, will be sending back my 160 and getting a stock 180 stat. Marcus I do have an LT1 but was reading on the LS forum and was getting info from that forum. My assumptions have been proven wrong but I knowledge is always a learning process. I will get there eventually.
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 15:45
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| bogus | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The LS1 is a different animal. It is all aluminum, and as such, might react differently to heat. The L98 and LT1 are a mix... iron blocks (heads sometimes) and aluminum heads and pistons.
That mix is my concern. Also, I stated 1986 as when the ECM started controlling fans, I meant to put a "(?)" next to it, because I am not 100% sure when the change occurred. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 16:06
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| 85RedSled | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Guru
 
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I put a 160* stat in my L98 when the old one stuck open and the car ran too cool to actuate my OD unit. Nothing gained except my car will always be hot enough to do this.
When the weather is cooler my car runs very low operating temps. I know there is a new radiator in it but do not know anything else the PO may have done like a high volume WP or the like. I have never had an issue with the heater not being warm enough or warms quickly enough. It usually takes a couple of miles or so to start noticing warmth coming from the vents, maybe 7-8 minutes. In the summer my car typically runs a little less than 200* until I stop in traffic. At that point it warms higher til the fan kicks on about 205* or so. As long as I am moving the car operates below what a 195* stat would force it to do. Even if I put a higher stat in I dont think it would help the car run any warmer. I like the 160* as it opens sooner and in my case more often to at least circulate the water thru the radiator and block. I figure my old cast iron head L98 is pretty much indestructible so while I still keep an eye on the temps I dont worry a lot about it. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/2 23:02
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| bogus | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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My 92 has what is an essentially stock cooling system, save the DeWitt radiator.
If I don't run the fans in traffic, the temps hit 228, fans come on, drop to 215, and repeat. If I run the AC, they never get about 205, and on the highway, fans or not, it sticks about 188-196, depending. It's all in the fans, I tells ya. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/3 1:39
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| Strick | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Guru
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One more tidbit of info, there is a VSS that tells the ECM to turn off the fans at about 35 mph. How do I know this? I put a manual set of switches in my cockpit that bypasses the ECM and grounds the signal to the relay that turns on the fans. If I forget to turn the fans off (back to normal) and I go above 35 mph the check engine light comes on which tells me the ecm senses a problem with the VSS.
Next, I, also, believe that a 160 stat does NOT reduce your operating temps. It just opens sooner. Once open, whether it's a 160,180 190, or 195, the stat is no longer controlling temps, unless you are driving in Alaska and the engine coolant drops below the stat temp. My theory is that when guys change to a 160 stat, they don't take into account that they are changing and flushing out the coolant which would probably allow the cooling system to work more efficently. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/4 14:51
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| BillH | Re: 160 stat | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yep, |
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Posted on: 2011/9/4 15:21
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| BillH | Re: 160 stat | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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That's strange,Tom. The fans are controled by the Quad Driver Module #4. The VSS is not in that circuit. QD4 gets commands from the ECM on the temp sensors and fan clutch relay. Then the QD grounds the relay(s). The QD also looks for voltage faults but will not throw the check engine light. It will however throw code 28 when you use the manual switch because energizing the relays puts voltage into the QD without a command from the ECM (and that throws the 28 but no SES light). I've had the manual switch on my 92 for 4 years, never get the light or fan on as you describe. Assuming that you have the switch wired into the green/white, blue/white (or both) wires at the relays, the fans should come on with the manual switch closed just by turning the key to "on". I have seen the fan and light come on like that with a bad EGR valve (intermittent). |
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Posted on: 2011/9/4 15:41
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| Strick | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Guru
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I'll go back into the FSM and trace the circuit again, but I do remember finding the wire on the ECM that if sent to ground and signals the relay to turn the fans on. And I will find the VSS quote in the FSM that talks about turning the fans off at approx 35mph. Give me some time on this. It's a good topic to discuss again. I did a tech tips on it a few years ago, but I can't find it now. If I'm wrong I'll admit it and thank you for correcting me. I do want to be correct. Correct is better than BS.
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Posted on: 2011/9/4 18:42
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| BillH | Re: 160 stat | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Absolutely. Not tryin' to correct you, I just thought it was strange. Now I'm curious. Relay ground wires are shown on 6E3-A-8 |
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Posted on: 2011/9/4 19:44
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| Strick | Re: 160 stat | ||
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Okay, I found where the VSS is tied into the cooling fan system. Look on page 6E3-C12-1 in the first paragraph under Primary Cooling Fan. I'm not finished as I'm still looking for the reference to the speed at which the VSS turns the fans off. I feel like I'm back in college.
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Posted on: 2011/9/5 2:10
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| BillH | Re: 160 stat | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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 Yea, really. I was thru C12-4 to 7 yesterday but not on C12-1.Luv how the FSM has these little tidbits but no explaination on the VSS part on that page. I don't understand why your fan comes on and mine dosen't. Which wire did you tap into for your switch? I also have an LED on the dash that tells me when the fan is on. Now I'm really curious. Side note: When my ECM was throwing a code 32 (EGR) the fan would turn on, nothing mentioned in the FSM about that. |
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Posted on: 2011/9/5 13:28
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