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| Matatk | Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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So you guys may recall that I had issues after putting in my new motor/trans a while ago. When I first started driving it, the trans didn't want to shift out of first when cold. Tried a bunch of different things, eventually seemed to get better, but never perfect.
Fast forward to now. Trans has a few thousand miles on it. The issue only happens when the trans is cold/after sitting overnight. Happened yesterday and today. I pull out of the drive (in OD), start driving and after I accelerate (slowly, motor is cold) I see the rpms going up into the 1700/1800 range (or more) and it hesitates to shift. Seems to hang up as the car slows down. I can force it to shift by dropping into 1/2/D/OD. Once the car drives a few blocks, the problem seems to go away. Trans also shifts hard when cold. Another thing is now with my new exhaust I can hear the transmission. It really sounds loud. Not popping, clanking, or metal grinding, but I can hear everything moving around inside. Sounds like something centrifugal, which coincides with my torque converter theory. It's not right. When everything is at operating temp, the trans is fine (at least 99% of the time). No problems at all. So I found this little blurb online: Quote: When a torque converter goes bad, one of two things will normally happen. If the torque converter was overpowered by a larger than stock engine or by pulling something very heavy, the vanes inside the torque converter will bend. When this happens, it feels like the transmission is slipping. It takes a lot of gas to get the vehicle moving. In a severe case, the vanes could be bent so much that the car will just rev up, but it will not go anywhere. It seems like that could make sense. When I start the car after sitting, perhaps fluid has drained out of the TCC and it needs to refill itself. So I drive it for a bit, it fills up, starts working right. Perhaps when the fluid is heated up it is thinner and flows better. That's just a SWAG. Also, this is not a performance converter. It is a 2400 stall converter built by a local company, but I'm thinking it's stock oriented. If that above article is correct, since it was not made to handle 400+ hp/torque that could have bent the vanes. I'm thinking about calling Pete and ordering one of his high quality torque converters. So what do you guys think? Any good suggestions for testing the torque converter while still on the car? I'll try to get a video to better demonstrate things. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 2:27
Edited by Matatk on 2012/3/10 2:37:56 Edited by Matatk on 2012/3/10 3:02:02 |
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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The other thing I'm considering is getting a core, rebuilding the crap out of it myself with all high end stuff, and putting a new TCC in it anyway.
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 2:29
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Also, I have not checked the FSM yet to see what steps they recommend, thought I'd post up first and see what you guys say.
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 2:37
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| bogus | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Convert to a manual.
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 3:03
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Quote:
Thanks jerky! Lol. Never again will I buy an automatic corvette...... |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 3:19
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| marv02 | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Some of us our old Kness can drive a manual any more thats why I have a Auto my self I like manual but the kness cant do it anymore.
I sold my 2006 Truck because it was a Manual it was ok ones I got up on the Hwy and did not have to shift any more If I in traffic or stuck light to light the pain got so bad made want to cry. All the years of dirt bikeing and the body abuse has caught up with me I had to give up my Love of dirt bikeing no more Vrom Vrom for me. So dont knock us guys with the Auto's. I went though 3 rebuild trans and I on my complete New trans before I gotten a good one with a 2500 stall. Quote:
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 3:37
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383 4 bolt main (10.5 to 1) Balanced, Flat top , pistons LT-4 Hotcam, C C ultra pro magnum steel 1.6 RRA, Trick Flow Heads Super 23 (195 runners) 62cc , SPL runners, Hi Flow intake base, 24# FIC Bosch 3 Injectors, Chipped, Melrose full headers, 3 way Main |
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| bogus | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Quote:
hey, you asked for opinions... I gave one...  |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 3:44
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Quote:
I was only giving Matthew a hard time... |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 3:44
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| marv02 | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I think either you have a bad Valve body or bad clucth packs.
I went though 3 diffrent rebuilds each time it go worst I got so mad I just purchased a complete new Trans and Converter I feel your pain and headachs. Either find a Geat rebuild shop or buy a good one from a good know shop like I did. The shop That rebuilt my trans was one of the cheepest ones I could find and now I know why they were cheep dont go Cheep you end up paying more in the long run trust me on this one. The 1st time it would not shift out first gear 2nd time very lazy wound not rev out, 3rd time I found out they did not put the correct stall converter it the car and stuill did not shift right. 4th time I just bit the bullet a purchased a Good complete trans now I been very happy with it no issues at all. But I gotten good at pulling and reinstalling the trans I dont want to do it anymore LOL. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 3:47
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383 4 bolt main (10.5 to 1) Balanced, Flat top , pistons LT-4 Hotcam, C C ultra pro magnum steel 1.6 RRA, Trick Flow Heads Super 23 (195 runners) 62cc , SPL runners, Hi Flow intake base, 24# FIC Bosch 3 Injectors, Chipped, Melrose full headers, 3 way Main |
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| marv02 | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Okay I get it.
 Quote:
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 3:48
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383 4 bolt main (10.5 to 1) Balanced, Flat top , pistons LT-4 Hotcam, C C ultra pro magnum steel 1.6 RRA, Trick Flow Heads Super 23 (195 runners) 62cc , SPL runners, Hi Flow intake base, 24# FIC Bosch 3 Injectors, Chipped, Melrose full headers, 3 way Main |
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| RickAnthony | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I would think it the vanes were bent, you would have issues all the time not just cold or hot.... Again I'm not a trans expert, but I have rebuilt several GM trans's mostly the 4L60E...
The converter leaking down over night, I would think if there were air inside the converter it would purge out pretty quickly... I'm not convinced it's a torque converter issue.. I'm thinking more along the lines of a valve body issue, or sticking Throttle Valve... The hesitation you described could be "flare" where the trans slips when initialy shifting into the next gear as the clutch pack begins to grab. Or it could be just shifting late? I would re-check the throttle cable adjustment first... there is an article I read somewhere that talked about using a line pressure gauge to check the adjustment, and they found there perfectly adjusted tv cable wasn't... Anyway just some thoughts... next time buy a core and let's rebuild it before you pull the trans.. -=Rick |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 6:14
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My Automotive Blog autoserviceupdated.blogspot.com CORVETTE SERVICE & REPAIR RickAnthonyMotorsports.NET |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Typically when you blow up a converter it just slips like crazy.... A 2500stall only going to 1800RPM dosen't sound like a problem.
What your describing sounds like it's low on fluid, maybe a clutch pack slipping or valve body problem, maybe an issue with the TV cable adjustment.... Will |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 15:20
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Thanks, Will.
Drove it this morning and paid more attention. 1-2 shifted ok. 2-3 is where is got hung up. So probably not the torque converter. I had previously assumed valve body or worn input drum. Not sure as I know relatively little about transmissions. I'm gonna have to do more research. The idea of getting a core is appealing to me. PATC sells their rapto rebuild kit on ebay for around 700. It's a consideration. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 19:05
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| dan0617 | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I'm betting it's in the valve body. You could get a TCI constant pressure valve body, bolt it in and go. It lets you put the throttle cable wherever you want to adjust part throttle shifts.
Honestly if it only does it when the fluid is cold,and it doesn't hang the gear way up in the revs, and you can manually shift it when it's cold to avoid the situation, and it is the only issue, I'd consider living with it. Do you happen to have an aftermarket oil cooler? If so, you could rig it up with an inline thermostat and bypass so that the fluid won't go through it till its hot. Would warm the fluid up alot quicker. For the feel of the trans, make sure the exhaust isn't touching anything anywhere. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 19:53
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| flyboy | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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If you're looking for a shop, I can recommend Atomic Transmissions on North Ave. in Villa Park.
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 19:56
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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So I was paying attention this afternoon while driving. Car cold, immediately after starting. 1-2 shift was still fine. It did shift in to 3rd at around 17 mph or so. It banged hard. Usually does when it's cold. After it's in 3rd, that's when it feels like it's slipping. The car noticeably slows in acceleration while the rpms climb faster. This is usually under 2000 rpm because I don't want to beat on it when it's cold. It feels like it's much harder to accelerate, like the car is working more.
Also, when I downshift from 3rd to 2nd without bringing up the revs over 2500 or so it bangs hard. So now I'm thinking it has something to do with the 3rd gear clutch. Problem is I don't know how it works....lol. Anyone have a crash course on the clutch assemblies and how they work in the 700r4? Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 23:24
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| bogus | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Paging PeteK. Please come to the white courtesy phone.
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Posted on: 2012/3/7 23:46
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I know Pete is traveling, I'll let him chime in when he gets a chance.
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Posted on: 2012/3/8 0:39
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| marv02 | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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This is the trans I have now and so far I been very happy with it I had about 1 year now.
http://www.performabuilt.com/gm%20per ... %20car%20and%20truck.html |
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Posted on: 2012/3/8 0:58
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383 4 bolt main (10.5 to 1) Balanced, Flat top , pistons LT-4 Hotcam, C C ultra pro magnum steel 1.6 RRA, Trick Flow Heads Super 23 (195 runners) 62cc , SPL runners, Hi Flow intake base, 24# FIC Bosch 3 Injectors, Chipped, Melrose full headers, 3 way Main |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Marv - they have a good reputation. This company does as well, but pricey:
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/highperf700r4.htm I have found their rebuild kits on ebay with good guts for around 6 or 700 dollars. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/8 1:09
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Marv - is yours set up with a manual valve body option? Ie, you can hold gears as long as you want w/o the trans shifting.
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Posted on: 2012/3/8 1:12
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| marv02 | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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My car is full auto I am lazy LOL it a DD I can hold in gear let it rev to and power shift the car it turns in to a tire smoking posi drifing beast.
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Posted on: 2012/3/8 2:00
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383 4 bolt main (10.5 to 1) Balanced, Flat top , pistons LT-4 Hotcam, C C ultra pro magnum steel 1.6 RRA, Trick Flow Heads Super 23 (195 runners) 62cc , SPL runners, Hi Flow intake base, 24# FIC Bosch 3 Injectors, Chipped, Melrose full headers, 3 way Main |
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| corvettelou | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I went though several rebuilds from local recomended shops lost count how many trans R&R I did trying to save $$ I finally bit the bullit and got a PATC raptor with converter 2200.00 but worth it been beatin on it for 3 years countless strip runs,burnouts,drag radials, NOS etc. 383 mid 11s.also run nitto DRs on the street and beat on it all summer. their website also explains the proper geometry the TV cable needs to operate very important!I had to drill a new hole in throttle body arm cause mini ram bracket changes the angle. they also recomend going though radiator then cooler back to trans.
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Posted on: 2012/3/8 4:37
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Thanks, Lou. I have been looking at their rebuild kit. I think I want to do it myself but use their upgraded parts.
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Posted on: 2012/3/8 12:43
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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So here's my status update so far. I've been doing a little reading, a little searching around. Lots of 700r4s out there. Most out of 4x4s or camaros. There are some internal differences, servos, governors, etc. The camaro has a 3/4" longer tailshaft and a different tailshaft housing. The housing is an easy swap, the shaft can be cut. But still some minor internal differences. Also, late 87 700r4s got an improved valve body change so those are desirable over the early ones. Not a lot of vette cores out there local to me.
Two companies seem to offer comprehensive rebuild kits. Probuilt and PATC. Both seem good. So, I think for the summer I'm gonna deal with the shifting issues. Over the winter pull the trans and build it. I think finding a good vette case locally might be a challenge. And like someone else brought up to me, it could be from a wrecked car and be broken internally, then you end up paying for crap. So I think I'll just do my own when the car is laid up. Below are the specs between the two rebuild kits. Probuilt: $509 http://www.700r4l60e.com/store/produc ... roductid=40&cat=19&page=1 Complete description of parts in the rebuild kit: "Front Pump" Seal retainer Seal, late design Teflon bushing, late design 10-vane rotor with vanes, slide, rotor guide & pin assembly Trans-Go Steel rings & priming spring Intermediate/reverse boost valve, (.296) Main boost valve, (.471) New replacement stator support "Clutches, Steels And Pressure Plates" 4 Borg-Warner reverse/input clutches .078 4 Reverse/input "low drag" Turbulator steels .078 1 Reverse waved steel (eliminates the belleville spring that tears up the inside of the drum) 5 Borg-Warner forward clutches .070 5 Forward steels .090 2 Borg-Warner overrun clutches .078 2 Overrun steels .091 5 Low/reverse clutches, Borg-Warner .087 5 Low/reverse steels, Turbulator .068 8 Borg-Warner Hi-Energy 3-4 clutches .080 3 3-4 steels .060 5 3-4 Steels .076 1 3-4 top pressure plate .128 1 3-4 bottom pressure plate .128 1 3-4 snap ring .062 Borg Warner dual cage 29 element design GM HD (heat treated splines) sunshell Trans-Go HD replacement forward springs & 3-4 springs (good up to 7,800 rpm) Input to output shaft seal (Viton) Borg-Warner Hi-Energy 2-4 band Corvette 2nd gear servo Borg-Warner Low/reverse roller assembly (late design) Paper & rubber (gasket) kit New governor gear Case connector 3 prong Transmission filter (OEM) Converter solenoid & governor filter Bushing kit with 3 teflon Thrust washer kit Sealing ring kit HD Torrington Bearing kit Trans-Go Shift kit (Heavy Duty) w/accumulation for nice part throttle shifts Vamac 3 lip rear seal New Forward accumulator piston and 4th accumulator piston Modified second accumulator piston, 24219937 accumulator housing with hardened (RC52) thin pin, to replace your 2nd accumulator housing. This gives better part throttle shifts New oem Forward and 4th accumulator pins Dual Feed input shaft checkball capsule for better lockup Or PATC Level III Raptor 700 $660 Level 3, Super Master 700 Raptor Rebuild Kit #660. Included in the kit is everything you need to build our level 3 original 700 Raptor Transmission the worlds first true performance 700R4 transmission. This kit is for 1987 to 1993 700R4 transmissions only. Here's what you get, the Fairbanks oversize billet intermediate servo and the Fairbanks oversize billet overdrive servo. The Sonnax oversize .500" pressure valve and oversize low / reverse pressure valve. A Sonnax elevated pressure regulator spring plus a 10 vane pump rotor and vane kit. Also included is a pump seal retainer and pump bushing, Borg Warner 29 element forward sprag, new low / reverse roller clutch, #11CF Alto carbon fiber Power Band. This kit comes with a torque converter lock-up kit, complete thrust washer kit, Master rebuild kit with an Alto Red Eagle 3-4 clutch Power Pack that has Kolene steels. The master kit comes with all TransTec gaskets, seals and rings. You get a filter, extra wide rear stator support bushing, double wide sun gear bushing, Transgo separator plate, 2 performance accumulator springs, performance pump slide spring and a Corvette governor. As an added bonus you get a discount plus free freight in the 48 continental United States. After many years of research and development these parts where determined to work together best for a long lasting transmission. When we pull the parts to build a 700 Raptor transmission this is the exact parts list. You get everything in the 23 pictures below. This sale is for 1 Super Master Rebuild Kit to build a PATC level 3, 700 Raptor transmission. Torque converter not included in this kit. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/9 2:11
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| corvettelou | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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glad to hear you're up to the task I was not after so many R&Rs I'm sure if you do you're homework and take you're time you can build your own killer trans with these proven parts. My understanding is any 30 spline 700 will work just have to cut tail shaft use correct hole for speedo gear and use vette tail housing. My raptor came with shaft cut and no tail housing as I told them I was using in vette. also pulled the light spring from vette gov. to raise shift point as they advised. I also opted for electric lock up that only needs 12v then swithed purple wire from brake peddle to turn it off. considered option for full throttle forth gear but was told this is hard on the trans. I do like the TCI constant preasure valve body idea and would consider if I were doing it again.
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Posted on: 2012/3/9 3:53
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Not sure how well the video transferred, might be a little jumpy. But this is from this morning:
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y110 ... view¤t=IMGP2312.mp4 Same video: Accelerates fine and shifts ok from 1-2. 2-3 is a hard shift and when keeping the gas at the same pressure level in 3rd, the car doesn't accelerate the same. I press the gas down in the video, it's probably at 60-70% of full throttle and you can hear the motor working harder. But obviously it isn't pulling like it should. Like I said before, once warm, the problem goes away. In fact, the problem (other than the hard shift into 3rd) seems to go away after a few rounds of shifting. Comments? Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 3:01
Edited by Matatk on 2012/3/10 3:34:19 |
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| PeteK | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Governor or Valve body is my first guess.
I would start with the governor, especially if you lightened the weights to make it shift higher. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 18:43
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| Matatk | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Thanks, Pete. The problem existed before I changed any settings on the governor.
What would the problem be with the valve body? On another note, this same exact thing happened this morning except more pronounced. I really tried to get on it in 2nd and 3rd and it slipped even more. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 19:25
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I found this on the PATC website:
Quote: If your transmission doesn’t shift out of first gear or shifts hard at too high a R.P.M. this doesn’t always mean you have a problem. This could be a stuck throttle valve caused by a small piece of trash. This sometimes happens after a rebuild. Sometimes the throttle valve can be unstuck without removing the valve body. Get up to about 20 to 30 M.P.H. and hit the gas pedal on and off hard with your foot. This might do the job. If that doesn’t work remove the throttle valve cable end from the throttle, with the motor at idle in park, pull the cable in and out very fast, this might work, if not the valve body must be removed by a transmission shop to be unstuck. This could cost $50.00 to $100.00. http://www.transmissioncenter.net/700r4.htm I also found some pictures on removing the valve body here: http://www.automedia.com/700R4_Shift_Kit/pht20000718ps/1 All it will cost me is some time, 5 qts of trans fluid, and a filter/gasket kit. I'm willing to try that, remove the valve body carefully and clean everything really well. Not sure when I will have the time, but I think this is step one. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 19:38
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| PeteK | Re: Signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I didn't hear slippage in the video. Slippage would be bad news. All it takes is a speck of dirt, half the size of a piece of pepper to bind a valve. To clean the valve body, you will need: 2 new VB gaskets. Filter Fluid 2 cans carb cleaner 1 can brake cleaner Completely dissassemble, and lightly block the machined surface with 400 grit paper to deburr it. Spitshine every knook and cranny with carb cleaner, including every piece of the valvetrain. Once you are sure it is clean, clean it again, then wash out with brakeclean, and dry with compressed air. Mock up every valve, in every bore, without their springs, caps, oins, or oil. They should slide back and forth as you tip the VB. Gravity should be sufficient to move each valve when done this way. Once satisfied a valve/bore is slick as snot, reassembly correctly with a light coat of ATF on all moving parts and bores. Make sure you do not install the VB gaskets incorrectly. The top one is different from the bottom. Torque the attaching bolts in sequence in 2 steps. 1st to a snug point, then final to 7 ft lbs (or about 86 inch pounds). *Be sure to leave the copper flashed (larger) checkball out, if the last guy did not. If the above does not fix it, my guess is that the last guy did not change the teflon sealing rings, or damaged the new one, or maybe even installed the incorrect scarf cut seals. Just a WAG though. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 19:55
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| dan0617 | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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You have a 2400 stall converter. In the video you said you are in the gas pretty hard, but you never went over 2300 rpms. Being in 3rd gear, depending on your gearing, you would be at like 60 mph at 2400 rpms with no converter stalling. You are seriously into converter stall since you are going into 3rd gear at such a low rpm, and you will not accelerate hardly at all pushing the pedal down some when in 3rd gear at 20 mph, let alone when keeping the pedal the same after the 2-3 shift. When pulling out easy like that, I have to give it more gas after the 2-3 shift to keep accelerating the same as before the shift, and my shift is coming at a much higher mph and rpm than yours.
I'm not sure why you feel it is hanging up by not going into 3rd gear until 16 mph. That is where it would have shifted with a stockish 1000 or 1200 stall converter. I went to the TCI constant pressure valvebody so I could set it to hold it's gears longer at part throttle before shifting, so the revs are higher when going into the next gear, which means less converter stalling. I honestly don't think your trans is slipping. Hard to tell without riding in your car but your video looks exactly like my car did with the high stall converter and stock valve body with shift kit. I think you are not liking the higher stall converter. I honestly don't see anything wrong there. I felt the same feeling you have when I went to a 2800 stall from stock. I think that is just the way they are. I have a pretty good feeling you will need to go back to a stockish converter to get the part throttle feeling you are looking for. The constant pressure valvebody will let you change those part throttle rpms but that doesn't change the fact that you will be into serious stall (which feels like slippage) after the 2-3 shift. Get in 3rd gear with the converter locked up, then give it as much gas as you can without it unlocking the converter. Then try it again in 4th gear. You will see for sure if your trans is slipping or not by doing this. I also noticed the shifts on mine were much harder with cold fluid. In the video you didn't warm the car up at all, the fluid was ice cold for sure. Also, depending on the shift kit built into it by the builder, that controls the firmness of the shifts. There may be a way to fix that hard and slightly delayed shift when fluid is cold, but I honestly doubt you have any problem with slippage or weakness after the 2-3 shift. When in 3rd at such a low mph with a high stall, you need to give it alot of gas to "spool up", so to speak, the converter. Give it enough throttle and it will shift back to 2nd and put you back in the seat because the high stall converter keeps your engine in it's powerband instead of at an rpm below the powerband. It is a tradeoff, sacrifice part throttle comfort to pick up wot power to the ground. Do you have any friends with higher stall converters? Take a ride in or drive their car and see how it feels. Might not feel as bad as ours after the 2-3 shift because they likely are at a higher rpm when hitting 3rd (our cars are as low as I've seen with stockish vavlebody) but I'll bet you will have the same feeling that you are having in your car. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 21:21
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| biggrizzly | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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My neighbors jeep would not shift into gear unless the car sat and warmed up for 30 minutes or more. I asked when the last time he checked the fluid and he looked at me like a deer looking into headlights.... Uhh what
We filled it with three or four quarts of fluid and all was well again. Not that this is your problem, just re-telling a fun story. I wish you lived closer to Pete. My trans is doing very well that he rebuilt for me. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 22:14
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Pete and Dan -
Thanks a lot for that info. I figured it was slipping just by virtue of the fact that in 1st and 2nd the car accelerates at low rpms very quickly and once it hits third it's like it's pulling a 5000 lb trailer behind it. Apparently it's the gearing of the trans coupled with the stall? Still, I don't know why it goes away when warm. It's a strange phenomenon. But I think your comments make a lot of sense. As far as the TCI, I've heard good and bad things. Dana at Probuilt says they are pretty much junk because it maintains a constant high pressure in the trans which is bad for the pump and other internals. I don't know the right answer to that. I have the transgo 2&3 kit at the softest "street" setting. I still plan on disassembling the valve bodies and cleaning them. Pete - are there any check balls or springs I have to worry about falling out while the trans is still in the car and I remove these things? Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 23:46
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| PeteK | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Yes. 2 large springs, and a half dozen or more check balls to deal with. When you remove the valve body, they will have some up in the worm track, above the seperator plate, and 2 in the valve body (below the seperator plate. Aux valve body will have 1 also. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/10 23:58
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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My fault, I wasn't clear enough. I realize there are springs and check balls. Will any specifically fall on my head when I pull the valve body out, drop on the floor and get lost, or fall out and I won't know where they go? Or are they in there pretty good and should stick in there while I pull the valve bodies off?
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Posted on: 2012/3/11 5:53
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| PeteK | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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If you lower the valve body and seperator plate down together, and perfecly level, the checkballs will stay on the top of the plate. The slightest twist while you are lowering it will result in the case checkballs dropping and rolling into never nerverland. Expect to chase them and have someone close by with a long magnet. This way, they can chase them while you get the atf imbedded in the eyeball. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/11 13:02
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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LOL...thanks Pete. Is there a photo or guide online of where the check balls belong? I'll probably borrow Rick's 700r4 manual. I still haven't looked in the FSM...oops.
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Posted on: 2012/3/11 13:32
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| PeteK | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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When a shift kit is installed, it changes the amount of checkballs used. You will need to reference the instructions for the specific shift kit (and settings) and your transmissions model year. The manual wont be much help regarding the checkballs. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/11 13:57
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Well, I don't have the instructions
 so I'll have to look on transgo's website. I'll be extra careful when I get around to doing it...lol. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/11 16:12
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| PeteK | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Print the instructions, and use them to confirm that the components installed in the trans are correct, and nothing is missing. Transgo kits are very complicated, and it is super easy (even for a pro) to make a mistake. Your problem may or may not be dirt, or a burr in the valve body. It could also be: Incorrect check ball placement Incorrect seperator plate, mods to that plate, or incorrect vb gaskets. Holes in valve body drilled in wrong location. Plugs in trans case incorrect, damaged, or loose. If you drop the pan and see alot of "molasses" in the bottom, you have a roached clutch pack, or band. If this happens, you will need to make a decision as to whether you want to attempt repair, or tear the box down for inspection. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/11 16:25
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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You're a really Debbie Downer, ya know that Pete! JK
I'll look carefully. This project is still about a month off when I have a few days vacation from work. |
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Posted on: 2012/3/11 16:42
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| RickAnthony | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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When you're ready make sure you get some vaseline....
LoL.. No joke though, you can use it or trans gel to hold the check valves in place... it breaks down with the warm trans fluid after you run it... -=Rick |
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Posted on: 2012/3/12 12:41
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My Automotive Blog autoserviceupdated.blogspot.com CORVETTE SERVICE & REPAIR RickAnthonyMotorsports.NET |
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I've been driving it more and paying close attention to the trans.
I think Dan has hit the heart of the problem when he discussed the 2400 stall speed and being in 3rd gear at too low of a speed. The trans still shifts too hard when cold vs hot, but I will deal with that later. That is not related to the stall speed, imho. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/15 2:41
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| dan0617 | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I've actually ridden in very high stall converter cars that, at part throttle, when they shift from 2-3 the rpms actually go up instead of down.
It's all a trade off. Gotta get cam/intake/gears/converter/heads/max rpms/etc. all matched up. Cam, intake, max rpm and converter are most important. But then, you find that the converter is too high stall to make you happy at part throttle, so you downsize it. Then your cam and intake is too big. Good for you, with what I know of your combo, I think you could downsize the converter stall to make you happier at part throttle, and you would likely gain some seat of the pants feel at WOT, and you probably wouldn't slow down much in 0-60 or 1/4 mile. Depending on your gears. A higher stall converter bandaids 2.59 and 3.07 gears very well. If you have 3.45's or more, with a 383 and tpi, a street car is better suited with a lower stall (like maybe 1600 or 1800). |
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Posted on: 2012/3/18 1:07
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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I'd probably be happier with a 2200 stall or even 2000, but what is done is done. I'm not spending more money if not necessary.
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Posted on: 2012/3/18 22:47
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| RickAnthony | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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How I felt with the 2600, I dropped it back down to a 2400. Different amounts of power will change the stall speed from what I understand too... Unless I am missunderstanding the concept...? |
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Posted on: 2012/3/18 23:29
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My Automotive Blog autoserviceupdated.blogspot.com CORVETTE SERVICE & REPAIR RickAnthonyMotorsports.NET |
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| biggrizzly | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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I have a 3000 stall from Pete and sometimes wish I went a little more conservative, although I'm not particularly unhappy with the whole package, it seems to work pretty good together. Could it be better? I'm sure there is lots of room for improvement but I'm not the best judge of what might be better. I'd like to get Pete or Will to drive it some day and get some impressions from them.
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Posted on: 2012/3/19 1:50
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| corvettelou | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Matt, just got my audio working on my laptop(kind of slow at those kind of things) listened to your video and thinking trans is shifting way too soon to 3rd. unless you have 4.56 gears or more. Mine shifts to 3rd. at about 25mph part throttle with 3.43 rear and many times I'll hold 2nd. manually cause it seems too soon. If you have 307s, a 383 and a 2400 conv. you are loading up that converter and it is slipping. If you hold 2nd. longer to say 30mph how does that work? I recall you once saying it was shifting early at the track.It sounds like a govenor issue or if it only shifts that early at part throttle a throttle valve or cable thing. your trans will run very hot like this and not last too long.
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Posted on: 2012/3/25 1:49
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| Matatk | Re: Trans problems.....signs of a bad torque converter? | ||
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Lou -
I agree it's shifting too soon. If I shift manually, I don't shift out of first until about 16-18 mph and out of second around 25-30 mph. Usually around 2200 rpms when I shift manually. 3.07 rear. I have tried numerous governor combinations with springs and weights and this is the best combo I could come up with. Actually happy with the WOT but nothing I changed would alter the light throttle shifts at around 8-9 mph from first to second. Last year the problem I was having was my WOT shifts were hanging up at higher rpms. That was killing my 1/4 mile times. Changing the weights/springs seems to have corrected that. Like I said before, I think Dan has the best explanation for me. It's like putting a manual trans in third gear at 16 mph and chugging along under load. Just not the right gear. The 700r4 just doesn't have the right gear combos for what I want. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2012/3/25 2:11
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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