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| bogus | Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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A strange thought came to me...
We always say: Firm pedal, bad booster; soft pedal, bad master. What if they both fail at the same time? Doesn't that just sound sucky? |
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Posted on: 2013/11/23 19:28
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| Matatk | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Webmaster
 
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It happens....mc goes bad and leaks into the diaphragm of the booster killing that as well.
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Posted on: 2013/11/23 21:36
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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yea... I know... but detecting it could be tricky.
the only hope is the lack of brake fluid triggering an investigation. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/23 22:13
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| josephf31 | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Quote:
With a bad MC wouldn't the pedal go to the floor? |
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Posted on: 2013/11/24 4:29
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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You are missing the point of the perfect storm... sure, the pedal could, but with a dead booster, it might mask or hide that for some time.
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Posted on: 2013/11/24 15:26
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| BillH | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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Ah, it's not as bad as heading into turn 1 @ 125 with your buddy's wife in the right seat (first timer) and the pedal starts to go down then gets hard with the Service ABS light going crazy................. that was knda stormy.
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Posted on: 2013/11/24 21:52
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| Matatk | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Quote:
I guess I'm missing the point, too. Usually the mc will give some warning before failure. Even with a bad booster, you won't get resistance pushing down. Perhaps the tires could all fall off and the engine could catch on fire while the brakes go out. That would be a perfect tsunami. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/24 22:34
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I am thinking that the booster can fail re the size of the damage to the diaphragm.
The master softens with age, as the seals wear... the perfect storm. It strikes me as being plausible on cars with higher mileage. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/24 23:50
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| istter1 | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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. Before ii got that great deal on the slotted disks for $100 for 4 from tire rack. there was a weak peda .I was losing fluis for a year or so. Just a little each month.
Turned out minor leak caused the fluid to be sucked into the power boster. Replaces all and great breap pads. No more problems |
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Posted on: 2013/11/25 2:09
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I am getting prepped for the same project. I realized that my master cylinder is some 12 years old and has 130k miles on it... the booster is OEM original. All 194k miles!
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Posted on: 2013/11/25 19:13
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Senior Guru
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There's a o-ring that separates the two circuits
When it goes, the two are linked and can make a real mess of things There was a post a while back where a racer went off course due to this |
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Posted on: 2013/11/25 22:14
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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oh, yea... equalized pressure would suck there.
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Posted on: 2013/11/27 18:04
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Don't forget the ABS is in the loop
a leak back there may go unnoticed |
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Posted on: 2013/11/27 20:27
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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ABS is kinda outside the loop.
It can fail and not effect performance of the existing hydraulics. I am really not sure what a leak failure in the ABS would do to the braking systems... |
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Posted on: 2013/11/27 23:28
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| teebee | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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The ABS leaked in our 99 Volvo S80, it didn't really affect anything except the ABS light was nagging me all the time and the freaking cruise control wouldn't work when the ABS light was on. I could have lived without the ABS, cruise control, not so much. New ABS from Volvo, $1800 + installation.....How much? I found rebuilt units for $395 and had my mechanic put it in, $100.
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Posted on: 2013/11/28 15:23
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The problem with European cars... everything costs too damned much to fix.
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Posted on: 2013/11/28 16:07
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| teebee | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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2014 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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That's the big reason why we got rid of it.
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Posted on: 2013/11/28 16:40
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I hear dat.
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Posted on: 2013/11/28 19:56
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Well kinda hard to figure out where you're going, what are your symptoms?
I've had intermittent m/c leakdowns. It only happened when the car had been run awhile. Maybe the piston seal has to warm up and soften up a bit. Obviously having a working booster will help find a leak. In 85, the front and rear circuits have separate reservoirs, so it makes diagnosing fluid leaks easier. Sorry that's not very helpful to you, lol. The booster becomes open to the engine vacuum only after you move the pedal a bit. So in theory you should be able to pull a vacuum on it with a hand pump as long as the pedal is pushed/held in. It's got some volume in there so it'd take awhile to pump down. Stabbing the booster should cause the idle to bump up if it is leaking enough. It may make a whoosh sound by your feet, but that doesn't mean anything. It sucks air from the car interior under normal operation. I still have the original booster on my 85. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/30 6:01
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| Matatk | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Webmaster
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Quote:
That's the problem with....every car. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/30 14:03
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Friend's '94 brakes felt like cr@p till we cracked the bleeder on the ABS unit. Not all years have bleeders on the ABS units They changed a lot over the years. |
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Posted on: 2013/11/30 21:15
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| bogus | Re: Brakes - The Perfect Storm? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
no symptoms, just a random thought... mostly due to the age of the parts. The master cylinder is 2001 vintage, from Advance Auto. A reman. It seems ok... but the booster is old school OEM, so it has 194k miles on the OEm booster. |
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Posted on: 2013/12/1 17:29
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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