|
|
Register To Post |
| CentralCoaster | Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
 
|
I haven't done any of this before. I guess I need something capable of doing steel brake and fuel lines, maybe aluminum and copper at some point also.
Have you guys used something like this?  LINK I also need something to barb some tubes with. Or I guess I could flare them. I don't see anything that lets me expand a barb in it for holding a hose and clamp on there. This is for the low pressure power steering system, for now. Mcmaster Carr Flaring Tools |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 4:08
|
|||
 Transfer
|
 
|
||
| Notorious | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Elite Guru
 
|
Actually, using the double flaring adapter with a flaring tool can make a very nice end for retaining a hose. You simply go only part way through the initial step of the double flare operation and stop at that point once you've gotten the desired shape.
The tool you show works well. You generally need it more on larger tubing sizes. The smaller the tubing, the easier it is to bend and bend shorter w/o kinking. All of your standard flaring tools work well on steel or soft copper. I've never really had occasion to try them with aluminum. This is pretty easy stuff. I'm sure you'll have no problem with it after very little practice. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 4:22
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| bogus | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
|
I got a KD flare kit... I would like to get one with the ability to do a mushroom flare - needed for the brake lines on the C4.
My tubing bender is an el cheapo from autozone. Works fine. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 4:23
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
I'll check those out too. I guess the halfass double flare makes sense.
I might do aluminum lines for the pneumatic lines on my truck. They sent me plastic DOT lines, which are probably fine, but I'm not quite convinced. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 4:32
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Steve85 | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Guru Newb
 
|
Quote:
I got a KD flare kit... I would like to get one with the ability to do a mushroom flare - needed for the brake lines on the C4. +1 I have been off and on trying to find the size of the front brake lines to replace a couple sections. I put in a line lock and want to remove it. The line lock came with tubing smaller than the existing tubing. I tried doing some tubing with a Ridgid tool, and it just doesn't hold the small tubing very well. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 5:01
|
|||
|
_________________
1985 Silver, Richmond 6spd, 408cid |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CFI-EFI | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
 
|
Quote Notorious: "Actually, using the double flaring adapter with a flaring tool can make a very nice end for retaining a hose. You simply go only part way through the initial step of the double flare operation and stop at that point once you've gotten the desired shape."
I have used the same method. It works like a charm. However if you think about it, there aren't many places where clamping a hose onto a hard line is really a good idea. If tubing was the choice, it probably was for a reason, and that reason seldom disappears down the line, so to speak. My flare/double flare tool set is a Weatherhead. RACE ON!!! |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 15:53
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
This is a low pressure power steering hose, from rack, returning to reservoir. Almost zero pressure. The factory uses rubber hose clamped on.
And don't they even do the same for high pressure fuel line? Mine is clamped on the sending unit and I think the flex under hood is also. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 17:28
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CFI-EFI | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
This is a low pressure power steering hose, from rack, returning to reservoir. Almost zero pressure. The factory uses rubber hose clamped on. Quote: And don't they even do the same for high pressure fuel line? Mine is clamped on the sending unit and I think the flex under hood is also. RACE ON!!! |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 19:44
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
No they use the little spring loaded clamps, just like the ones you see attaching to your vapor canister purge lines.
But most rubber hose normally bonds to the metal line to an extent, this is part of what makes it stay on there. I think it's by design, and it's the reason you have to twist the rubber to break it loose before you can remov the use usually. And I think for that reason they should be installed dry, not with hose lube they sell in little packets at autozone. But I could just be making all of this up and feeding you guys b.s. Hey, it's internet advice, you get what you pay for.  |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 20:10
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
A couple choices, from most expensive to cheapest:
[web]http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=2431&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=608&iSubCat=615&iProductID=2431[/web] [web]http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=12536&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=608&iSubCat=615&iProductID=12536[/web] [web]http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=2461&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=608&iSubCat=615&iProductID=2461[/web] |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 21:59
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Notorious | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Elite Guru
|
Quote:
However if you think about it, there aren't many places where clamping a hose onto a hard line is really a good idea. If tubing was the choice, it probably was for a reason, and that reason seldom disappears down the line, so to speak. My '95 has two sections of clamped on rubber fuel line that connect the sending unit/pump ass'y to the hard lines going forward. Note to anyone who changes them though. Although it looks like standard fuel line hose, it should be marked for fuel injection systems. It'll cost 2 to 3 bucks a foot compared to standard fuel hose which is maybe $.50 a foot. Make sure and get the right type to handle the much higher pressures in TPI cars, as well as in the later LTx cars. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 22:26
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
The goodyear version of this stuff has a very tough blue inner liner, and yup, it's about 4x as much as the other stuff. Don't let those clowns sell it to you as regular hose for other uses.
They all fail to realize that all hose is not created equal. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/23 23:07
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CFI-EFI | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
However if you think about it, there aren't many places where clamping a hose onto a hard line is really a good idea. RACE ON!!! |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/24 1:12
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Slalom4me | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Guru
 
|
Quote:
I also need something to barb some tubes with. Or I guess I could flare them. Instead of fabricating barbs on a tube, what about using a hose barb and a suitable fitting on the steel tube?  Other barb choices at Parker . |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/27 21:26
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CFI-EFI | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
Instead of fabricating barbs on a tube, what about using a hose barb and a suitable fitting on the steel tube? RACE ON!!! |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/28 0:47
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Slalom4me | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Guru
|
Quote:
That ought to work great, if your tubing is threaded to take such a fitting. Or if the flaring tool is used for the purpose for which it was created - to secure a fitting on the end of a metal tube. Then the hose could be secured onto the hose barb and the hose barb could be fastened to the fitting on the metal tube. Beats using the flaring tool to jury rig a make-shift single-rib 'barb' directly on the metal tube 1pc - Hose barb to male SAE inverted double-flare.  1pc - Union, female inverted flare  1pc - Tube nut, male inverted double-flare  With a hose barb to female inverted flare, the union could be eliminated. I just didn't happen to find an example in Parker or Weatherhead's catalogs . |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/28 5:58
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
Beats using the flaring tool to jury rig a make-shift single-rib 'barb' directly Well, the factory has been "jury rigging" it that way since rubber hoses were invented, so I don't see the problem. They best way is a swaged hose end threaded onto another compression type fitting, like a flare end. I'm doing neither. I'll try just bending the tube that's there and attaching to existing barbs. I'll post pics when I'm done. I really need to get it out of the garage so I can work on other things.  |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/28 17:29
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CFI-EFI | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
Beats using the flaring tool to jury rig a make-shift single-rib 'barb' directly on the metal tube Whatever floats your boat. RACE ON!!! |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 1:47
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Slalom4me | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Guru
|
Quote:
Ya think? That is a lot of hardware to get a "single-rib 'barb'" The reasons to prefer a hose barb over a single or double flare are two-fold. Firstly. The direction of the lip is reversed - a barb is directed such that it makes installation easy and removal difficult, the shape of a flare has the opposite result when used with hose. Secondly. On a flare, the intended sealing surface is the end of the tube where it becomes captured between the two opposing fittings. It doesn't matter that the outer surface upstream from the end is marred & deformed by longitudinal marks left by the anvil portion of the tool used to grip the tube while the die portion forms the flare. However, hose seals along this portion of the outside of tube - imperfections become points for seepage. But enough. CentralCoaster has his solution. If we are going to differ, let it be over something more substantial than this. Incidently, the little single and double 'ear' crimp-style hose clamps seen on euro and asian cars are known as Oetiker Clamps. With proper care, they can be reused multiple times.  . |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 2:26
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
Incidently, the little single and double 'ear' crimp-style hose clamps seen I'm almost postive that Oetiker says specifically not to reuse them. It's not something you want to plasticly deform more than once. On an aside, I'll tell you to never ever use them with plastic (PEX) water pipes in your home, or you'll be springing leaks in no time. I'm working on a case right now that is springing leaks left and right from corroding stainless clamps and causing huge $ losses from flood damage. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 3:05
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Slalom4me | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Guru
|
Quote:
I'm almost positive that Oetiker says specifically not to reuse them. Well, I'd say that, too, if I was in the hose clamp business. In practice, I have found the Oetiker-style clamps I have worked with to be sufficiently ductile to withstand several applications. They appear to be made of mild steel and when sized correctly for the hose & barb, there is relatively little deformation required to clamp or release them. I do not recall one breaking on me as a result of fracture due to work -hardening from reuse. I've not had a hose detach. For a critical connection such as fuel lines, prudence may dictate single-use. Otherwise, if you have the patience and care to remove these clamps successfully, my vote is that you can reuse them several times with confidence that they will continue to perform as expected. Plastic water pipes? Law suits? Sheesh, who could have predicted that. Corroding stainless clamps? What kind of electro-chemical reaction is occuring that is causing 300 or 400 series "stainless" material to corrode? . |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 15:21
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| BillH | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
The Stig Moderator
 
|
I've got a tube bender from Summit. It does 1/4 thru 3/8. It's inexpensive and works fine. P/N SUM-900038 - $10
I've been slowly changing out the braided stainless steel hose on the race stuff (except the brake lines). I've been using both Areoquip Socketless and Summit Twist-Tite. usually with the correct fittings. It's good to 250 psi w/o clamps. I have used it on drysump oiltank vent lines and on a drysump suction line from the oil pan to the pump ( a 6 inch piece ). On both of these, the tubing is straight, no flares, and has regular hose clamps on it. Zero problems. I'd put the flares on tubing for the p/s stuff and use good hose and forget about it. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 15:52
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Stainless isn't kryptonite. All of the oetiker clamps I've seen are stainless. The tool to install them costs over $100. How do you remove them without damaging them?
|
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 16:07
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CFI-EFI | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
You screwed something up when you posted. CFI-EFI said no such thing.
Quote: quote="Slalom4me"Quote: Those are NOT my words. Please review the thread to attribute then to the proper source. RACE ON!!! |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 16:08
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| CentralCoaster | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Yeah the quote thing on this software is kinda hokey. I probably tried to delete the quote within a quote but left the name.
Do you guys have experience with Earl's hose ends?  |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 17:20
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| BillH | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
The Stig Moderator
|
Quote:
Yeah the quote thing on this software is kinda hokey. I probably tried to delete the quote within a quote but left the name. Yep, I've used both Earl's and Areoquip. Both are high quality and I can't say one's better than the other or easier to assemble. I've never had a failure or even a leak with either. The fitting in your pic looks like it's for hose with stainless steel braid. Braided hoses are a pain to assemble unless you have on of the Koul Tool hose assembly tools and they're not cheap. |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/29 19:13
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Slalom4me | RE:Tubing bender and flaring/barb tools... Which ones to get? | ||
|
Guru
|
Quote:
The tool to install them costs over $100. How do you remove them without Knipex makes a very nice Oetiker Clamp tool, it sells for $35 to $70. Or you can shop and find it for under $15. Lane_Pilot has been selling them for $12-$15 on eBay.  But the Oetiker tool is not mandatory if there is some room to work. While they aren't as common now as they were in the past, end cutters work fine for installing Oetiker Clamps. $5-$8 at a hardware near you.  . |
||
Posted on: 2008/1/30 22:07
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.
|
|